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Red Wings Prospects Tracker - Part IV - The Search for More Prospects

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09-11-2012, 05:27 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
He was projected to be a top-6 winger before his accident. If HF said otherwise, then the Detroit writer at the time failed in his assessment.
Very good player before the accident. It hurt his speed in a big way but his hands were still there. Had a huge WJC and then nice WC the year of his accident there was a lot of hype around him. Never understood why he pulled the rip cord so fast on his GR stint. Jaster is absolutely right, guy had about as much hype as Zetterberg and Datsyuk before the accident. Maybe not quite that high, but similar to how we talk about Jarnkrok. There was no question before his accident that he was believed to be a top 6 talent. Unfortunate how things played out.

Here is his eliteprospects scouting report translated to English.

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A skilled, offensive forward who likes to challenge their opponents. Fast and good skater who is good to do things at high speed. He's smart and creative player who sometimes works some situations. Is sometimes undisciplined and taking unnecessary penalties. Great shot and reliable scorer. 2003 Grigorenko was involved a serious car accident, and it contributed to his development was delayed significantly.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=9566

That high speed element of his game left him for the most part it is still there in flashes but he just doesn't get to the same top end speed when I watch him. Still has the hands and the shot. Would not be totally crazy to see him make the Olympics if he has the right couple of years here.

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09-11-2012, 06:20 PM
  #77
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Detroit seems to have rotten luck when it comes to developing elite talent.... Konstantinov? Meet drunken limo driver... Fischer? Turns out he had heart problems... Grigorenko? Car accident eradicated his leg speed and will to play in the NHL... Am I missing anyone else? This just makes me really mad...

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09-11-2012, 06:44 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Detroit seems to have rotten luck when it comes to developing elite talent.... Konstantinov? Meet drunken limo driver... Fischer? Turns out he had heart problems... Grigorenko? Car accident eradicated his leg speed and will to play in the NHL... Am I missing anyone else? This just makes me really mad...
Slava Kozlov before his car accident was an elite, elite talent.

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09-11-2012, 06:51 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Detroit seems to have rotten luck when it comes to developing elite talent.... Konstantinov? Meet drunken limo driver... Fischer? Turns out he had heart problems... Grigorenko? Car accident eradicated his leg speed and will to play in the NHL... Am I missing anyone else? This just makes me really mad...
Wallin's development was derailed by injuries. We almost lost Kozlov to a car accident.

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09-11-2012, 08:30 PM
  #80
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Grigorenko was a hell of a talent. Too bad breaking his leg in multiple spots ruined his chances at the NHL level. To his credit he has made a hell of a career for himself in the slower KHL. Still has those great hands and bulldog mentality. As for his short stint in AHL I think he knew his speed wasn't going to be there and couldn't pass up the pay check at home along with the fact his wife and young daughter were at home as well as he was trying to take care (financially) of his parents as well. He wouldn't have been able to do that with an AHL pay check.

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09-12-2012, 02:53 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Detroit seems to have rotten luck when it comes to developing elite talent.... Konstantinov? Meet drunken limo driver... Fischer? Turns out he had heart problems... Grigorenko? Car accident eradicated his leg speed and will to play in the NHL... Am I missing anyone else? This just makes me really mad...
Hard to complain about our 20 year run here. As terrible as a lot of the things that happened are, they were in all honesty situations where we are lucky those guys are alive and that is a miracle when you really think about it.

Was at the Fischer game, will never see that as anything but something incredible, remember realizing they started CPR and just how hushed the building was. Could never describe accurately the feeling in the building... Just so happy he is a scout and around today.

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09-12-2012, 03:09 AM
  #82
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At the time of the accident Grigs was clearly considered the hottest commodity the Wings had since the days of Lidström and Fedorov. The hype was about on par with Z, definately more then Dats at a comparable time. He sort of came more or less out of nowhere when he played himself on the team out of camp. Never was too much of a hyped prospect.
It was definately more then any of the prospects today. The difference is that next best after Grigs those days were the likes of Kopecky, an (at that time) underachieving Kronwall, a skilled but unbelievably tiny Hudler or a pretty unproven Flip. So not much to share the credit with. Today there are many good to solid prospects and even in the 20-s range of our list the guys have a realistic shot on the NHL. So today it is hard to imagine the hopes imposed on those very few good guys!

So that elite-talent thing is legit. Kozlov, Grigs, Vlad, Fish... that is a pretty tough pill to swallow. Amazing the Wings were and are where they are despite.

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09-12-2012, 11:15 AM
  #83
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I still wish we could made a spot for Grigorenko in Detroit the year he came over and worked with him.
From what i saw, he could have had a Homer kind of role on Datsyuk's wing.
But whatever. We won the cup that year, so I wouldn't wish for too much change.

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09-12-2012, 11:26 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Zorin View Post
At the time of the accident Grigs was clearly considered the hottest commodity the Wings had since the days of Lidström and Fedorov. The hype was about on par with Z, definately more then Dats at a comparable time. He sort of came more or less out of nowhere when he played himself on the team out of camp. Never was too much of a hyped prospect.
It was definately more then any of the prospects today. The difference is that next best after Grigs those days were the likes of Kopecky, an (at that time) underachieving Kronwall, a skilled but unbelievably tiny Hudler or a pretty unproven Flip. So not much to share the credit with. Today there are many good to solid prospects and even in the 20-s range of our list the guys have a realistic shot on the NHL. So today it is hard to imagine the hopes imposed on those very few good guys!

So that elite-talent thing is legit. Kozlov, Grigs, Vlad, Fish... that is a pretty tough pill to swallow. Amazing the Wings were and are where they are despite.
We do not have a prospect in our system as accomplished as Grigorenko was at the time of the crash.
Grigroenko owned two junior tournaments and was playing in the WCs on a line with Datsyuk as a 20-21 year old.

In successive years, we would have added
2001-02 - Datsyuk
02-03 - Zetterberg
03-04 - Grigorenko

Would Grigs have been as good as D or Z? While it's hard to say that now, at the time, we fully expected it.
We were looking at a mini-powerforward, built like a small Russian tank, who could skate fast, battle everywhere on the ice and score 30 goals. It's not hard to imagine a consistent 30 to 35-goal man

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09-12-2012, 12:56 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by RabbinsDuck View Post
Slava Kozlov before his car accident was an elite, elite talent.
Well, hello there Mr. Babcock!

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09-12-2012, 01:09 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
We do not have a prospect in our system as accomplished as Grigorenko was at the time of the crash.
Grigroenko owned two junior tournaments and was playing in the WCs on a line with Datsyuk as a 20-21 year old.

In successive years, we would have added
2001-02 - Datsyuk
02-03 - Zetterberg
03-04 - Grigorenko

Would Grigs have been as good as D or Z? While it's hard to say that now, at the time, we fully expected it.
We were looking at a mini-powerforward, built like a small Russian tank, who could skate fast, battle everywhere on the ice and score 30 goals. It's not hard to imagine a consistent 30 to 35-goal man
At that he was considered to be just like OV. He would have been great no doubt. We don't have guys like him in the pipeline, but we do have a plethora of 2nd and third line guys at the least with two or three guys destined for first line roles. Add in a free agent here and there and we have a hell of a roster.

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09-12-2012, 03:09 PM
  #87
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At that he was considered to be just like OV. He would have been great no doubt. We don't have guys like him in the pipeline, but we do have a plethora of 2nd and third line guys at the least with two or three guys destined for first line roles. Add in a free agent here and there and we have a hell of a roster.
Exactly that why i have issues with people saying were sinking and sinking fast. this year yes we are going to be cutting our teeth to make the playoffs and that's all i want us to do. keep the streak alive. then in the next few years when Jurco, Tatar, make full time roles replace Cleary and the awful signing that was Burtuzzi. then hopefully AA is good enough to make it to the NHL. and in 2-3 years we get the Ouellet, Sproul Pairing, that in my mind will be potentially one of the best 2nd pairings in the league come 6 years. point being we are in a transition period from the old guard to the new, we saw it from stevy and shanahan, to D, and Z. the only difference is now i think we have even more prospect depth

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09-12-2012, 03:27 PM
  #88
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There was a story about Pulkkinen in todays paper. Mainly stuff about his training during the summer. Here's basically what it said:

He found a training facility called "Hockey Base"(video) close to Helsinki, liked it a lot and ended up training there for 150 hours during the summer, which is more than what he trained with his team(in Finland teams have summer training for part of the summer). He worked there with a skating coach and Jokerit's fitness coach trying to develop his skating. They have been monitoring his development and each time his 20 meter (~65 ft) dash has been faster. You can really see it on the ice as well.

Pulkkinen, Järnkrok and Bäckman begin their regular seasons tomorrow. Hoping to catch Pulkkinen's game and most likely one of Bäckman/Järnkrok as well.

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Old
09-12-2012, 04:13 PM
  #89
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There was a story about Pulkkinen in todays paper. Mainly stuff about his training during the summer. Here's basically what it said:

He found a training facility called "Hockey Base"(video) close to Helsinki, liked it a lot and ended up training there for 150 hours during the summer, which is more than what he trained with his team(in Finland teams have summer training for part of the summer). He worked there with a skating coach and Jokerit's fitness coach trying to develop his skating. They have been monitoring his development and each time his 20 meter (~65 ft) dash has been faster. You can really see it on the ice as well.

Pulkkinen, Järnkrok and Bäckman begin their regular seasons tomorrow. Hoping to catch Pulkkinen's game and most likely one of Bäckman/Järnkrok as well.
Since he was drafted he's done nothing but work work work. It's nice to see a committed prospect trying to improve his weak areas.

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09-12-2012, 05:50 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
There was a story about Pulkkinen in todays paper. Mainly stuff about his training during the summer. Here's basically what it said:

He found a training facility called "Hockey Base"(video) close to Helsinki, liked it a lot and ended up training there for 150 hours during the summer, which is more than what he trained with his team(in Finland teams have summer training for part of the summer). He worked there with a skating coach and Jokerit's fitness coach trying to develop his skating. They have been monitoring his development and each time his 20 meter (~65 ft) dash has been faster. You can really see it on the ice as well.

Pulkkinen, Järnkrok and Bäckman begin their regular seasons tomorrow. Hoping to catch Pulkkinen's game and most likely one of Bäckman/Järnkrok as well.
What paper? Worth reading?

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09-12-2012, 06:01 PM
  #91
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What paper? Worth reading?
Helsingin Sanomat. It was interesting but not very long.

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09-12-2012, 06:14 PM
  #92
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I still wish we could made a spot for Grigorenko in Detroit the year he came over and worked with him.
From what i saw, he could have had a Homer kind of role on Datsyuk's wing.
But whatever. We won the cup that year, so I wouldn't wish for too much change.
Yeah, I was hoping they would at least keep him on roster to at least practice with them. I really think despite the injury a "Homer" type role would or could have happened.

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09-12-2012, 08:18 PM
  #93
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I remember watching grigs in a preseason game, played good, then was one of the shooters in the shoot out, and left the goalies jock in the sixth row, and thinking, just give this guy a few games with datsyuk and see what happens during the reg. season. Bummer he didnt stick.

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09-13-2012, 01:38 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
We do not have a prospect in our system as accomplished as Grigorenko was at the time of the crash.
Grigroenko owned two junior tournaments and was playing in the WCs on a line with Datsyuk as a 20-21 year old.

In successive years, we would have added
2001-02 - Datsyuk
02-03 - Zetterberg
03-04 - Grigorenko

Would Grigs have been as good as D or Z? While it's hard to say that now, at the time, we fully expected it.
We were looking at a mini-powerforward, built like a small Russian tank, who could skate fast, battle everywhere on the ice and score 30 goals. It's not hard to imagine a consistent 30 to 35-goal man
Never disputed that! At least I did not mean to. He was good. Very good!

But still the "Messias-Effekt" in the midst of a "prospect-drought" stll pushed the hype. I follow the Wings including their prospects for about 15 years now (Edit: Follow the wings for about 20 years. But the prospects for 15, I mean ). And the only guy who had as much hype surrounding him in that time was Z, I'd say. No Dats, no Flip, no Hudler or whoever. Granted he may also have been the best prospect the Wings HAD since the Fedorov/Lidström-Days. Was in the same league as Dats/Zett in that respect, I'd say.

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09-13-2012, 02:35 AM
  #95
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Never disputed that! At least I did not mean to. He was good. Very good!

But still the "Messias-Effekt" in the midst of a "prospect-drought" stll pushed the hype. I follow the Wings including their prospects for about 15 years now (Edit: Follow the wings for about 20 years. But the prospects for 15, I mean ). And the only guy who had as much hype surrounding him in that time was Z, I'd say. No Dats, no Flip, no Hudler or whoever. Granted he may also have been the best prospect the Wings HAD since the Fedorov/Lidström-Days. Was in the same league as Dats/Zett in that respect, I'd say.
I'd say it was comparable to the Z hype. Z getting the call to the 2002 Olympics was a pretty big deal at the time.

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09-13-2012, 12:56 PM
  #96
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Willy Palov ‏@CH_WillyPalov

Martin Frk suspended for the final two games of the pre-season for his spear on Jonathan Oligny on Sunday.

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Helsingin Sanomat. It was interesting but not very long.
Thanks.

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09-13-2012, 01:44 PM
  #97
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Marchenko was in the lineup but didn't get any icetime... Pulkkinen 0+0, -1, 4 shots, 15:38 icetime. His whole line was very invisible, not much to say about their game.

Will update this post with Swedish scores in about 30 min when their games finish.

Swedish stats:
Järnkrok 0+1, E, 46,67% on FO's, 20:52 icetime, scored in the shootout as well.
Bäckman 0+0, E, 1 SOG, 18:26 icetime


Last edited by ChadS: 09-13-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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09-13-2012, 02:24 PM
  #98
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Järnkrok with one assist and a goal in the shootout in a 2-1 win.

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Old
09-13-2012, 02:47 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
Marchenko was in the lineup but didn't get any icetime... Pulkkinen 0+0, -1, 4 shots, 15:38 icetime. His whole line was very invisible, not much to say about their game.

Will update this post with Swedish scores in about 30 min when their games finish.

Swedish stats:
Järnkrok 0+1, E, 46,67% on FO's, 20:52 icetime, scored in the shootout as well.
Bäckman 0+0, E, 1 SOG, 18:26 icetime
Faceoffs is something Jarnkrok could work a lot on this year. I think he was around 50 or right below last season. If you're at 50 in the SEL you're not gonna be at 50 in the NHL.

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09-13-2012, 03:22 PM
  #100
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Faceoffs is something Jarnkrok could work a lot on this year. I think he was around 50 or right below last season. If you're at 50 in the SEL you're not gonna be at 50 in the NHL.
He was quite good at the WC's: http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/272/IHM272000_85F_15_0.pdf

But yes, I'm sure he has some room to improve in that area. Would imagine part of it comes with building strenght.

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