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Roster Talk '13 — Canada

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Old
09-12-2012, 10:50 PM
  #101
Yakushev72
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Can you name which Russian players in the AHL were not released? There are generally no junior age Canadians playing in the AHL so I don't know how significant the numbers are for junior age Russians in the AHL are. In most circumstances junior age players (any nationality) if not on the NHL roster must be returned to their junior team. So, give me specifics, names, years...

Russians don't generally view the AHL as a developmental league anyway, most Russian players playing junior in Canada, if the option comes up, AHL or return to Russia? They almost always return to Russia. Russian players tend to see the AHL as a league where talent goes to die.

The only player I can think of is LA D-man Voynov. He played in the 09 WJHC, but not in 2010. But they also didn't release Drew Doughty 2 years in a row. Granted Drew was with LA and not the AHL affiliate. Now, believe me, I understand how frustrating it is when teams do not release players to their national teams...
To name a few, Aleksandr Avtsin, Yegeniy Grachev, Voynov. I can't think of a single Russian player in the AHL who was ever released to play in the WJC. I don't have a problem with them saying that a player is in a pro league, and that releasing him to a junior tournament is not in the best interest of the pro team. But the fact is that nearly all AHL GM's are Canadians, so if they are releasing Canadians like Nugent-Hopkins, its probably for the sole reason of giving Canada an advantage in the tournament.

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09-13-2012, 04:06 AM
  #102
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To name a few, Aleksandr Avtsin, Yegeniy Grachev, Voynov. I can't think of a single Russian player in the AHL who was ever released to play in the WJC. I don't have a problem with them saying that a player is in a pro league, and that releasing him to a junior tournament is not in the best interest of the pro team. But the fact is that nearly all AHL GM's are Canadians, so if they are releasing Canadians like Nugent-Hopkins, its probably for the sole reason of giving Canada an advantage in the tournament.
Grachev played in the WJ in 09. And wasn't released in 2010. Voynov I mentioned, played as well in 09, but not in 2010. And as far as Avtsin is concerned, was he even a candidate for a national team? He had no experience with the national team on the U18 level and was hardly producing with Dynamo. As a 19 year old with Montreal's AHL team, he wasn't producing, was injured a lot and wasn't playing well. I doubt very seriously he was considered for the NT that Christmas.

Again, AHL teams and their GMs do not make the decision on whether to release or not release. The NHL GM does..the player is under contract to the NHL team. Don't start with that argument, "most are Canadians GMs and want to give Canada an advantage." It's an argument you'll lose all the time.... when Russian juniors on average 6-10 players per year are not released to their NT, then come and complain...but your 2 players max per year not being released, gets no sympathy from me..

In 2010 NHL GMs (mostly Canadian as you most eloquently pointed out) did not release 19 year Stamkos, Doughty, Tyler Myers and 18 year old players such as Tavaras, Matt Duchane, Evander Kane, Ryan O'Reilly, plus one or two others. There that's 7 players, And not just fringe players like your Grachev or Avtsin that really are not impact players what so ever... If anything Canadian GMs of NHL teams by not releasing Canadian teenagers to the Canadian NT make the WJHC more competitive and put Canada at a disadvantage compared to other countries.

And Anisimov was released by the New York Rangers/Hartford to play in the WJHC in 08 when he was 19 years old. Anisimov in his draft year (18 year old played in Yaroslavl. Drafted by New York, was assigned to Hartford as a 19 year old and released by the New York Rangers to his NT.


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09-13-2012, 11:21 AM
  #103
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Grachev played in the WJ in 09. And wasn't released in 2010. Voynov I mentioned, played as well in 09, but not in 2010. And as far as Avtsin is concerned, was he even a candidate for a national team? He had no experience with the national team on the U18 level and was hardly producing with Dynamo. As a 19 year old with Montreal's AHL team, he wasn't producing, was injured a lot and wasn't playing well. I doubt very seriously he was considered for the NT that Christmas.

Again, AHL teams and their GMs do not make the decision on whether to release or not release. The NHL GM does..the player is under contract to the NHL team. Don't start with that argument, "most are Canadians GMs and want to give Canada an advantage." It's an argument you'll lose all the time.... when Russian juniors on average 6-10 players per year are not released to their NT, then come and complain...but your 2 players max per year not being released, gets no sympathy from me..

In 2010 NHL GMs (mostly Canadian as you most eloquently pointed out) did not release 19 year Stamkos, Doughty, Tyler Myers and 18 year old players such as Tavaras, Matt Duchane, Evander Kane, Ryan O'Reilly, plus one or two others. There that's 7 players, And not just fringe players like your Grachev or Avtsin that really are not impact players what so ever... If anything Canadian GMs of NHL teams by not releasing Canadian teenagers to the Canadian NT make the WJHC more competitive and put Canada at a disadvantage compared to other countries.

And Anisimov was released by the New York Rangers/Hartford to play in the WJHC in 08 when he was 19 years old. Anisimov in his draft year (18 year old played in Yaroslavl. Drafted by New York, was assigned to Hartford as a 19 year old and released by the New York Rangers to his NT.
My statement is not anti-Canadian in nature - Russian GM's from the KHL or VHL would most likely be more easily persuaded to release a Russian player for an international tournament than a player from another country. Why would an NHL GM care about releasing an AHL player that is not playing in the NHL? That doesn't make sense. As for Avtsin, he was considered to be right there along side Tarasenko as among the best of the '91 born. Allesandro Dello Sorro thought he was the best, and made comparisons to Ovechkin. He would certainly have been taken for the WJC if the AHL made him available.

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09-13-2012, 11:32 AM
  #104
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Grachev played in the WJ in 09. And wasn't released in 2010. Voynov I mentioned, played as well in 09, but not in 2010. And as far as Avtsin is concerned, was he even a candidate for a national team? He had no experience with the national team on the U18 level and was hardly producing with Dynamo. As a 19 year old with Montreal's AHL team, he wasn't producing, was injured a lot and wasn't playing well. I doubt very seriously he was considered for the NT that Christmas.

Again, AHL teams and their GMs do not make the decision on whether to release or not release. The NHL GM does..the player is under contract to the NHL team. Don't start with that argument, "most are Canadians GMs and want to give Canada an advantage." It's an argument you'll lose all the time.... when Russian juniors on average 6-10 players per year are not released to their NT, then come and complain...but your 2 players max per year not being released, gets no sympathy from me..

In 2010 NHL GMs (mostly Canadian as you most eloquently pointed out) did not release 19 year Stamkos, Doughty, Tyler Myers and 18 year old players such as Tavaras, Matt Duchane, Evander Kane, Ryan O'Reilly, plus one or two others. There that's 7 players, And not just fringe players like your Grachev or Avtsin that really are not impact players what so ever... If anything Canadian GMs of NHL teams by not releasing Canadian teenagers to the Canadian NT make the WJHC more competitive and put Canada at a disadvantage compared to other countries.

And Anisimov was released by the New York Rangers/Hartford to play in the WJHC in 08 when he was 19 years old. Anisimov in his draft year (18 year old played in Yaroslavl. Drafted by New York, was assigned to Hartford as a 19 year old and released by the New York Rangers to his NT.
Weren't Stamkos, Doughty, Tavares, Matt Duchene and Evander Kane playing in the NHL at the time of the 2010 WJC? I've already said that NHL teams have a clear-cut obligation to act in the interest of their franchise, and if guys are skating a regular shift, it would make no sense to send them to a junior tournament. Barring a miracle, the NHL is 36 hours away from a lock-out, and lock-outs are very hard to undo once they are put in place (witness the 2004-5 season). We may get a chance to see guys like Nugent-Hopkins, Scheiffele, Huberdeau, Murray, Murphy, Strome, etc., in Ufa. I'm anxious to see how that would turn out. Maybe not as one-sided as you think.

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09-13-2012, 11:40 AM
  #105
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My statement is not anti-Canadian in nature - Russian GM's from the KHL or VHL would most likely be more easily persuaded to release a Russian player for an international tournament than a player from another country. Why would an NHL GM care about releasing an AHL player that is not playing in the NHL? That doesn't make sense. As for Avtsin, he was considered to be right there along side Tarasenko as among the best of the '91 born. Allesandro Dello Sorro thought he was the best, and made comparisons to Ovechkin. He would certainly have been taken for the WJC if the AHL made him available.
I don't buy it. I remember that fall leading up to the WJC and he was more often injured than not and when he played, he played poorly...very poorly, in fact he was atrocious. He couldn't adapt at all to NA.. I would have sent him back to Moscow after two weeks.

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09-13-2012, 03:18 PM
  #106
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I don't buy it. I remember that fall leading up to the WJC and he was more often injured than not and when he played, he played poorly...very poorly, in fact he was atrocious. He couldn't adapt at all to NA.. I would have sent him back to Moscow after two weeks.
Whatever your opinion of his play, that's not the point. The point is the AHL wouldn't release to play in the WJC.

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09-15-2012, 05:32 PM
  #107
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I think their AHL teams will release them.

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09-18-2012, 01:00 PM
  #108
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09-21-2012, 10:52 AM
  #109
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2013 Team Canada Roster

With the lockout who could strap em up for Canada? I know guys like Couterier and the Nuge can, but who else is there?

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09-21-2012, 08:20 PM
  #110
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With the lockout who could strap em up for Canada? I know guys like Couterier and the Nuge can, but who else is there?
It doubt it will be anywhere near as deep or talented at the last 2 lockouts.

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09-22-2012, 06:31 AM
  #111
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With the lockout who could strap em up for Canada? I know guys like Couterier and the Nuge can, but who else is there?
Couturier is too old. RNH is the lone NHLer who is still eligible, so take Canada's roster from the recent Canada-Russia series, add him and Nathan MacKinnon, drop Kevin Roy and a few others from that 28-player roster and you pretty much have it.

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09-22-2012, 11:55 AM
  #112
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Couturier is too old. RNH is the lone NHLer who is still eligible, so take Canada's roster from the recent Canada-Russia series, add him and Nathan MacKinnon, drop Kevin Roy and a few others from that 28-player roster and you pretty much have it.
I was trying to think of who would be added and I only thought of RNH. There has to be a few others... doesn't there?



As I said, I knew it would be thin but not THAT thin.

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09-22-2012, 01:04 PM
  #113
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I was trying to think of who would be added and I only thought of RNH. There has to be a few others... doesn't there?



As I said, I knew it would be thin but not THAT thin.
There usually aren't too many Canadians who could play in the WJC after playing a full year in the NHL. It was only Bergeron and Burns during the previous lockout. The bigger issue is that Canada would miss guys who could be rookies this year. There is a decent chance that guys like Murray, Hamilton, Scheifele and Huberdeau, along with some unpredictable candidates, would make the NHL this year and miss the tournament.

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09-22-2012, 01:09 PM
  #114
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There usually aren't too many Canadians who could play in the WJC after playing a full year in the NHL. It was only Bergeron and Burns during the previous lockout. The bigger issue is that Canada would miss guys who could be rookies this year. There is a decent chance that guys like Murray, Hamilton, Scheifele and Huberdeau, along with some unpredictable candidates, would make the NHL this year and miss the tournament.
Fair enough. I think we all agree that there will not be as great an impact this year as there was in previous lockouts.

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09-23-2012, 08:18 AM
  #115
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I was trying to think of who would be added and I only thought of RNH. There has to be a few others... doesn't there?



As I said, I knew it would be thin but not THAT thin.
RNH is the only one, unfortunately, but he should make a huge impact. He's the one thing that was noticeably missing from the summit series team -- a clear-cut No. 1 centre.

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09-23-2012, 08:32 AM
  #116
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Couturier is too old. RNH is the lone NHLer who is still eligible, so take Canada's roster from the recent Canada-Russia series, add him and Nathan MacKinnon, drop Kevin Roy and a few others from that 28-player roster and you pretty much have it.
With our pal Kevin handing out the invites and evaluating the talent are you 100% convinced Roy doesn't get another shot at the December camp?

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09-23-2012, 08:37 AM
  #117
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With our pal Kevin handing out the invites and evaluating the talent are you 100% convinced Roy doesn't get another shot at the December camp?
I can't see it. He looked so out of his league at the summit. He looked every bit like a junior A player compared to the others.

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09-23-2012, 08:49 AM
  #118
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I can't see it. He looked so out of his league at the summit. He looked every bit like a junior A player compared to the others.
I agree with you on that call there.... Most of us knew the score on that selection even before the tourny...but it was an exhibition, so....so what what right..give him a shot...

The question is was it so obvious to Kevin Pendergast? I'm not so sure he sees what we all see.

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09-23-2012, 04:15 PM
  #119
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I agree with you on that call there.... Most of us knew the score on that selection even before the tourny...but it was an exhibition, so....so what what right..give him a shot...

The question is was it so obvious to Kevin Pendergast? I'm not so sure he sees what we all see.
Because its not easy to light up the USHL like he did, guys like Jaden Schwartz and Luis Leblanc didnt come close to hitting his numbers (though he was 18 and they were 17)

Its obvious now hes not WJC calibre, but it was worth a shot to see if hes at that level.

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09-26-2012, 05:33 AM
  #120
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Weren't Stamkos, Doughty, Tavares, Matt Duchene and Evander Kane playing in the NHL at the time of the 2010 WJC? I've already said that NHL teams have a clear-cut obligation to act in the interest of their franchise, and if guys are skating a regular shift, it would make no sense to send them to a junior tournament. Barring a miracle, the NHL is 36 hours away from a lock-out, and lock-outs are very hard to undo once they are put in place (witness the 2004-5 season). We may get a chance to see guys like Nugent-Hopkins, Scheiffele, Huberdeau, Murray, Murphy, Strome, etc., in Ufa. I'm anxious to see how that would turn out. Maybe not as one-sided as you think.
Can you point out to me where I said it would be one-sided? Again, as you are well known for, reading subtext, conjuring up nonsense really....perhaps others have stated it, but go argue that point with them, not me.
Nowhere did I say that in the event of a lock-out the 2012 team would dominate the tournament in the same fashion that the 2005 team did or the 1995 team...

If all players are available and playing, it will be a good team and should be a contender for a gold medal.

The 2005 team was The Best team in the History of the Tournament...The only team that I would say would come close is the 1989 Soviet team with Federov, Mogilny and Bure. but I still think the 05 Canadian team is better.


So obviously I'm not expecting to see a 2005 repeat of dominance. Just a strong team that should make the gold medal game...and if I had to bet a ruble or two...the favorite to win...but not a forgone conclusion.

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09-26-2012, 12:34 PM
  #121
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Whatever your opinion of his play, that's not the point. The point is the AHL wouldn't release to play in the WJC.

The AHL released Nick Leddy in 2011 from Rockford. Ditto Kyle Palmieri, Jeremy Morin, Jerry D'Amigo. Ditto 2010 John Carlson

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09-26-2012, 02:27 PM
  #122
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So obviously I'm not expecting to see a 2005 repeat of dominance. Just a strong team that should make the gold medal game...and if I had to bet a ruble or two...the favorite to win...but not a forgone conclusion.
I will be shocked if everyone plays and this team doesn't absolutely dominate. A stacked defence, what seems to be a quality goaltender, very good forwards in addition to the best player eligible by far in Nugent-Hopkins.

It's not as good as the 2005 team, but there's no reason to think this team wouldn't be better than 1995.

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09-27-2012, 06:02 AM
  #123
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I will be shocked if everyone plays and this team doesn't absolutely dominate. A stacked defence, what seems to be a quality goaltender, very good forwards in addition to the best player eligible by far in Nugent-Hopkins.

It's not as good as the 2005 team, but there's no reason to think this team wouldn't be better than 1995.
I don't see it... favorite to win? Yes! Dominate? No. Remember, the 1995 team was in Canada...and if it weren't for a miracle comeback in the 3rd against the Czechs... I don't think the 1995 tournament was all that easy... in fact none of the 15 gold medals have ever been easy except for 2005.

Much tougher to do in Ufa... And my prediction is Canada-Sweden gold medal game..will be a toss up... bronze medal game US-Russia. US wins.

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09-27-2012, 06:13 AM
  #124
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Can you point out to me where I said it would be one-sided? Again, as you are well known for, reading subtext, conjuring up nonsense really....perhaps others have stated it, but go argue that point with them, not me.
Nowhere did I say that in the event of a lock-out the 2012 team would dominate the tournament in the same fashion that the 2005 team did or the 1995 team...

If all players are available and playing, it will be a good team and should be a contender for a gold medal.

The 2005 team was The Best team in the History of the Tournament...The only team that I would say would come close is the 1989 Soviet team with Federov, Mogilny and Bure. but I still think the 05 Canadian team is better.


So obviously I'm not expecting to see a 2005 repeat of dominance. Just a strong team that should make the gold medal game...and if I had to bet a ruble or two...the favorite to win...but not a forgone conclusion.
absolutley well said. This team should be solid. The summer series against Russia was a lot better gauge than a summer development camp.With a few tweaks, the team will improve. Goaltending is the key. I would rate them with RNH as the team to beat, but far from runaway favorite. I do like the strength down the middle and defence.

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09-27-2012, 10:10 AM
  #125
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Huberdeau - Nugent-Hopkins - Rattie
Monahan - Strome - Mackinnon
Hudon - Schiefele - Di Giuseppe
Danult- Jenner - Wilson

Murray - Hamilton
Murphy - Harrington
Dumba - Reilly



Subban
Brossoit


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