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Old
09-11-2012, 07:44 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
You can play man to man press 0 which is very risky with no safety valve, or man to man press free, which is what I consider the best defense to stop elite QBs and exactly what DL used along with mixing in quarter coverage to keep Brady honest. After that game he would role some press-man coverages, but not all game. He has his philosophy of making QBs drive the length of the field, but the elite guys just eat those coverages up. I love the guy and had hope when he finally changed his philosophy after he stifled Brady, but he seems to have this fear of press coverage, eventhough he has the corners for it.
I agree with this analysis. DL's strategy of forcing teams to make long drives is also predicated on applying pressure which, even if it doesn't result in a sack, will force the QB into making the wrong throw or a bad throw. Incomplete pass is a win, and you get enough of those, plus a sack or perhaps a holding call, and you've forced a punt. The pressure just hasn't been there, and, as you say, elite QBs are gonna eat that up. They know where they want to go, they make good decisions and they don't waste throws.

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09-11-2012, 07:53 AM
  #77
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I'll still defer to DL when it comes to his defense. He knows what his guys can and can't do better than any of us ever will.

I don't think Ben is on the decline. I think he's peeked though. He won't get any better.

I thought he played pretty well except for that one interception. He bailed the team out of numerous long yardage situations on 3rd down etc. that they were in due to blown up running plays and penalties. I heard Peyton Manning in particular giving Ben props for being awesome on 3rd down at the end of the game.

Anyway, Ben was never really a dominating QB. He was never a Brady, Manning, Rodgers that would consistently and methodically dominate you all game long. He's always been a fairly inconsistent guy that can make huge gamebreaker type of plays with his ability to avoid the rush and get the ball to his WR's. You combine that with the great D he had and a lot of games including 2 Super Bowls and 3 AFC Titles were won.

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09-11-2012, 08:44 AM
  #78
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I don't know, to me it looks like he's lost some of his mojo. I think Ben relies on his freak athletic ability and skill to elude the rush to make those gamebreaker type of plays. I think as he gets older and the hits add up, it gets tougher and tougher for him to do that consistently. We saw last year with his injury that when he loses that mobility he suddenly becomes a very average QB.

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09-11-2012, 09:20 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
I don't know, to me it looks like he's lost some of his mojo. I think Ben relies on his freak athletic ability and skill to elude the rush to make those gamebreaker type of plays. I think as he gets older and the hits add up, it gets tougher and tougher for him to do that consistently. We saw last year with his injury that when he loses that mobility he suddenly becomes a very average QB.
I would be very interested to see him behind a line that doesn't suck.

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09-11-2012, 09:25 AM
  #80
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I would be very interested to see him behind a line that doesn't suck.
Meh. As bad as his protection has been at times, he's a playground player. He likes to run around and he thrives on broken plays. He'll never be a guy who stands in the pocket and dissects a defense. If you believe what you hear he stinks at reading defense and in fact, has never put much effort into it.

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09-11-2012, 10:43 AM
  #81
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
I'll still defer to DL when it comes to his defense. He knows what his guys can and can't do better than any of us ever will.
Ya I tell myself that all of the time, then I remember he is something like 3-12 all time agt Manning/Brady.

I could see if the press scheme was eaten up by Brady last season, but it stifled him quite well. So why would you get away from it? Especially when it keeps being proven man off gets shredded by the elite QBs.

I also just read in the PG this morning that Clark noticed from the sidelines Ike and Lewis were playing their best when they went to press coverage late in the game and he thinks they should do it more.

So he isn't DL, but he knows the scheme and his teammates quite well.

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09-11-2012, 11:12 AM
  #82
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Is there ever a time folks can accept the fact that a HOF QB sometimes can just tear through a defense? Especially on his home turf.

Manning is a 1st ballot HOF'er who was clearly ready to play. I am really not too surprised that he carved through our defense so easily. When Ben throws a pick 6 and we're not clicking on offense that well, it becomes difficult to overcome a QB who is at the top of his game.

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09-11-2012, 12:22 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Is there ever a time folks can accept the fact that a HOF QB sometimes can just tear through a defense? Especially on his home turf.

Manning is a 1st ballot HOF'er who was clearly ready to play. I am really not too surprised that he carved through our defense so easily. When Ben throws a pick 6 and we're not clicking on offense that well, it becomes difficult to overcome a QB who is at the top of his game.
When said QB continues to eat your scheme up and you have only beaten him once, why would you think that scheme is going to suddenly work?

The Pats always frustrated Manning by playing physical, man coverage and disrupting his timing. I've rarely seen Manning lose when he is playing agt. man off coverage.

The same goes for Brady. You aren't going to beat him if you let him get in a rhythm and gameplan to surrender the short game. He will dink and dunk you all the way to 40 points.

Can they beat you if you play press? Of course, but it is almost a given they will carve up any man off schemes. It simply doesn't work and the Steelers record agt. these two over the years is a testament to that.

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09-11-2012, 05:26 PM
  #84
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Hi, I'm a n00b here.

I must say I'm very concerned about this stubborn, 1970's shell the Steelers are putting themselves in. I don't think I can blame Todd Haley for what happened on sunday night because I think Art II has ordered him to run more often. Haley isn't afraid to throw 60 times a game, he did it in Arizona. So I wonder why he's suddenly so hesitant now? Until the owner stops being enamored with 70's yinzer smashmouth, the Steelers are headed for 8-8.

Consider the offensive series in the first half right after the defense got a turnover. You would think the Steelers would put the pedal to the medal right? Nope. Run, run, sack on 3rd and long, punt. Forget about no being predictable. Forget about not using your franchise QB and his weapons earlier and more often in a game. Hand off to the RB from Bowie State to make the spirit of granddaddy Rooney happy! And then of course, after they have kept Ben shut down most of the game, they ask him to bail the team out in the last 3 minutes. When he isn't able to - "BOOOOOOOO! YINZ STINK BEN!" No, Ben didn't have his greatest game. But maybe if you use him a little more often, it doesn't come down to him having to lead the team back. Instead, maybe you're milking the clock with 3 minutes left. It's a scoring league, stop worrying about time of possession - Manning sure as hell didn't. And it's not the offense's problem if the defense is tired after a quick score.

I know it's just one game, but the Steelers have me concerned. Right now, the Steelers seem to think their old-school 70's mentality is right and everyone else in the NFL is wrong. Time and time again Tom Brady has proved the Steelers wrong, but they refuse to accept it. On Sunday night, Peyton Manning proved them wrong, will they accept it this time? I doubt it, but I hope I'm proven wrong come next week. If the Ravens are willing to let Average Joe throw more and use more no-huddle, then perhaps the Steelers should trust their two-time SB champion QB.

Now try explaining all of that to a yinzer, he'll go ballistic.

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Old
09-11-2012, 09:41 PM
  #85
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dp...


Last edited by lastcupever75: 09-11-2012 at 09:47 PM.
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09-11-2012, 09:43 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post

Also, on the Thomas TD, there were 8 in the box because DL sold out to stop the run on that play. There was no safety valve back. It was the oddest call...
i'm counting 7

mundy looks like he was wayyy back

troy and taylor get trapped right away. KLew tries to come all the way from other side of field

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09-12-2012, 07:00 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by lastcupever75 View Post
i'm counting 7

mundy looks like he was wayyy back

troy and taylor get trapped right away. KLew tries to come all the way from other side of field
Well, we were both wrong...

Quote:
He said they were in what he called "cover 9," which others have called an "inverted cover 2." Basically, it was nine defenders crowded around the line of scrimmage to stop what they believed would be a running play on first down
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...alking-652231/

I just recall wondering wtf he was doing before the snap. Before the snap I was worried about one of the corners being beaten on a go... But it became worse than that...

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09-12-2012, 02:30 PM
  #88
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Well, we were both wrong...



http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...alking-652231/

I just recall wondering wtf he was doing before the snap. Before the snap I was worried about one of the corners being beaten on a go... But it became worse than that...
before the snap there were 7 in the box.

but yeah, they did crash in thinking it was a run (2nd and 1 i believe it was). so we got burned just like the playoff game.

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09-12-2012, 03:56 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcupever75 View Post
before the snap there were 7 in the box.

but yeah, they did crash in thinking it was a run (2nd and 1 i believe it was). so we got burned just like the playoff game.
I am talking about the playoff game... O lawd... Is it funny or just sad we have two identical plays to be confused over?

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09-12-2012, 08:45 PM
  #90
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oh crap

LOL

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Old
09-12-2012, 10:00 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by lastcupever75 View Post
oh crap

LOL
I've decided its funny as hell... Because it is.

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09-13-2012, 08:13 AM
  #92
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I'm really intrigued to see what happens with James Harrison when he comes back. I could see him coming back and either being awesome, or coming back and doing nothing. If he does nothing, I think he may very quickly be a cap casualty.

For some reason, I have a feeling this team is coming to a crossroad. Some may have felt like it was last season with so many older veterans departing, but I never completely thought so because those retiring had better replacements (Hines), or they just couldn't physically do the job anymore (Smith, Farrior). We have guys at absolutely critical positions on this roster who are getting up there in age, have been banged up, and we have absolutely no one even close to replacing them. I'm specifically looking at James Harrison and Troy Polamalu.

Worilds could be a good replacement, but he needs to stay healthy himself.

Finding safety and linebacking help in this next draft will be crucial.

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09-13-2012, 08:35 AM
  #93
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I wonder if they could move Troy to free safety eventually. He still got good range so he would get more interceptions like Ed Reed. It's less physically demanding for him but it's probably hard for him to stay back all the time.

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09-13-2012, 08:45 AM
  #94
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That would make Troy reinvent himself. I'm not sure he'd be as effective in coverage as he is playing up around the line. Troy is an explosive player...he doesn't have that 2nd gear though. He can cover 5-7 yards faster than any player in the league, but when he's covering 35-40...not so sure about that.

I do think a slide over for a majority of snaps would ultimately be good for him though. Less physically taxing than playing up front at the line all the time.

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09-13-2012, 09:00 AM
  #95
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Reed doesn't have great speed but he still covers a lot of ground. You don't really need to have great speed to be free safety but you got to have great instincts. I think Troy can do that, might even prolong his career as long as he doesn't play up front too often.

I took a peek at safeties for 2013 draft. Not a deep group. Only Eric Reid (LSU) have first round potential and possibly TJ McDonald (USC), first or second rounder.

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09-13-2012, 09:05 AM
  #96
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I would rather us take a linebacker in the 1st anyways.

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09-13-2012, 09:14 AM
  #97
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Manti T'eo from Notre Dame?

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Old
09-13-2012, 09:27 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I would rather us take a linebacker in the 1st anyways.
I think the future of this team, given the young talent they have on defense, should be a shift to the 4-3.

Hood, Heyward, Mclendon, and Woodley played a one gap in college and I think they could be a deadly attacking 4-3.

These guys are stifled playing the read and react two gap having to protect their lbs and when they are in a fire zone and are pulled back into coverage (most especially Woodley), they simply aren't attacking.

Those four playing a one gap, attacking the LOS all game could wreck some havoc. Put Timmons as the Mike and rotate Harrison, Carter and Worilds outside.

I just don't know if DL is willing to adapt to his talent though, because from what I recall, DL 3-4 roots run deep and his schemes are all based off it.

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09-13-2012, 09:33 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I think the future of this team, given the young talent they have on defense, should be a shift to the 4-3.

Hood, Heyward, Mclendon, and Woodley played a one gap in college and I think they could be a deadly attacking 4-3.

These guys are stifled playing the read and react two gap having to protect their lbs and when they are in a fire zone and are pulled back into coverage (most especially Woodley), they simply aren't attacking.

Those four playing a one gap, attacking the LOS all game could wreck some havoc. Put Timmons as the Mike and rotate Harrison, Carter and Worilds outside.

I just don't know if DL is willing to adapt to his talent though, because from what I recall, DL 3-4 roots run deep and his schemes are all based off it.
Heyward was a 5 technique in college.

I'm just a fan of the 3-4. I think it's much more unpredictable. That being said, the 3-4 defensive draft pool was our honey hole for years and years, until the rest of the league caught on. A guy like Joey Porter would have been a 1st rounder in today's NFL, but not back when he was drafted. That fact would let me wrap my head around switching to the 4-3, and that we do have guys who are probably better in a 4 man front. I'm just not a fan of the 4-3 because I think it's just an overly predictable, run whatcha brung, defense.

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Manti T'eo from Notre Dame?
That's certainly a guy on the top of my list at the moment.

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09-13-2012, 10:00 AM
  #100
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