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The Lockout Thread Part I

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09-13-2012, 09:15 AM
  #326
Skraut
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I want to see the boys play, but I would also like to see if we can get the Jackets to stop bleeding money.
That's the key for me.

I'd rather the lockout last all season, and have the new CBA "fix" the majority of the issues that plague the league, as opposed to getting something hastily done which will just put us back in the same place in a few years.

I don't know as we get closer and closer to this, I feel worse and worse about what I do as a "hobby." The hours I spend of my own time to promote a league, players, and owners, that seem to take the fans for granted.

I guess that was why the Who I Am video was so special, because it was for the fans, but still, I wonder what I could have done with all those hours back to do something "more useful"

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09-13-2012, 09:21 AM
  #327
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As much as I hate to admit it, I'll probably have to start pulling for the owners here just hoping to get this thing resolved. Last lockout was different than this one will (potentially, isn't it assured by now?) be. I was firmly in the camp of the owners last time. This time, it seems like most of the league is just begging the players to bail them out. Certainly, with any league, you're going to have a small percentage of the teams that are "underperforming" in terms of franchise operations, in this league, it seems like that number is greater than the other leagues.

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09-13-2012, 09:29 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
That's the key for me.

I'd rather the lockout last all season, and have the new CBA "fix" the majority of the issues that plague the league, as opposed to getting something hastily done which will just put us back in the same place in a few years.

I don't know as we get closer and closer to this, I feel worse and worse about what I do as a "hobby." The hours I spend of my own time to promote a league, players, and owners, that seem to take the fans for granted.

I guess that was why the Who I Am video was so special, because it was for the fans, but still, I wonder what I could have done with all those hours back to do something "more useful
"


Speaking for myself, a sense of personal accomplishment is usually worth the effort I put into things like this. I've been volunteer coaching Soccer and Baseball for parks and recs, for 5 years now, and its about alot more than spending time with my own kids that are on the teams I coach. Its about having a positive impact on a community...I hope.

I've always enjoyed your stuff on youtube, and now my kids, 8 and 10 have all of your CBJ vids bookmarked. They can't get enough of it Skraut. You do promote the team with your work, and I hope that brings with it a personal sense of accomplishment and satisfaction.

Back on the lockout topic, I guess I agree with the sentiment that its better to get this thing done right than to have hockey this October. I really believe the players have to give in. Teams are losing money, not 1 or 2, but as much as half the league. When teams start folding, noone wins, not the players, owners, and certainly not the fans.

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09-13-2012, 09:44 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
As much as I hate to admit it, I'll probably have to start pulling for the owners here just hoping to get this thing resolved. Last lockout was different than this one will (potentially, isn't it assured by now?) be. I was firmly in the camp of the owners last time. This time, it seems like most of the league is just begging the players to bail them out. Certainly, with any league, you're going to have a small percentage of the teams that are "underperforming" in terms of franchise operations, in this league, it seems like that number is greater than the other leagues.
  • In the NFL, teams share $4Billion TV contracts. (roughly $125 million per team)
  • In MLB, all teams put 31% of their revenue in a pot, and share that evenly. Then teams such as the Yankees contribute extra based on luxury taxes. The Yankees themselves contributed over $170 million in luxury taxes alone in the first 5 years
  • in the NBA: All teams contribute 50% of revenue into the pot. Once the rosters are set, a league average salary is then paid back to every team from this pot.
  • In the NHL, the most your team can receive is $10M, and you have to be in the bottom 15 of revenue, and not be in a large market, and meet a minimum of number of seats sold.
4 major league sports.
3 know that they need each other to survive.
1 thinks it can just take their profits out of the players every few years.

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09-13-2012, 09:52 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Don't need a lesson on leading a full life, but thanks for the suggestions.
Oh I was joking around. I wasn't trying to give you a lesson or even suggestions. However, there are plenty of things to do obviously. We survived one lock out, we will survive this one.

Having said that, to your other point on time. Hockey takes up 10-20 hours a week of my time, during the season. Without it there there are a lot of things I can do with that time. To suggest it would be "the same things", for me, isn't accurate.

Hell I'll probably get back 3 hours a week just from posting on here.

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09-13-2012, 09:58 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
I don't know as we get closer and closer to this, I feel worse and worse about what I do as a "hobby." The hours I spend of my own time to promote a league, players, and owners, that seem to take the fans for granted.

I guess that was why the Who I Am video was so special, because it was for the fans, but still, I wonder what I could have done with all those hours back to do something "more useful"
I don't invest the amount of time you do, but we are pretty much on the same page on how we view it.

No where in all these discussions have I seen things like ticket prices come up. The player are fighting for a large percentage of a pie that is created by owners increasing the prices at the gates or via purchases at the arena. No matter how they generate revenue, at some point it will come back to us in the higher cost of something. I illustrated in another post that some teams have operating incomes of 40+ million and have average ticket prices double ours. Instead of asking why a ticket is so much, helping to inflate league wide revenue, the players are just trying to figure out a way to get their grubby hands on it.

I'll be honest, if they don't extend the tax cuts at the beginning of the year my season ticket will be the causality.

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09-13-2012, 11:04 AM
  #332
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I think the owners need to revise how they approach this thing. They aren't doing enough to convince people that they aren't going to simply pocket the extra money.

Right now I'm not behind any side. The players already receive a slice of the pie which is unusually large for a league like the NHL. Owners meanwhile are extremely rich and honestly, in the case of teams like Columbus and the Islanders, are making boneheaded decisions regarding team management and who they hire.

If the owners were to revise their stance and claim (if even insincerely) that they are on the side of the fans, I think I would lean towards supporting them. If they say "we want this money back from the players in order to further expand the quality of the league and the experience for the fans, lower the ticket prices in some cases, and market the teams better" I could get behind that.

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Old
09-13-2012, 11:31 AM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Oh I was joking around. I wasn't trying to give you a lesson or even suggestions. However, there are plenty of things to do obviously. We survived one lock out, we will survive this one.

Having said that, to your other point on time. Hockey takes up 10-20 hours a week of my time, during the season. Without it there there are a lot of things I can do with that time. To suggest it would be "the same things", for me, isn't accurate.

Hell I'll probably get back 3 hours a week just from posting on here.
Yeah I'm just crabby today (today?).

I was less replying to your post than how I extrapolated your post.

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09-13-2012, 12:22 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
I'd rather the lockout last all season, and have the new CBA "fix" the majority of the issues that plague the league, as opposed to getting something hastily done which will just put us back in the same place in a few years.
I'm in agreement here. I can live without the NHL. I have Ft Wayne near enough to watch hockey. I would rather a CBA be reached that benefits the Blue Jackets. If we lose a season, so be it.

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Old
09-13-2012, 12:58 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
I'd rather the lockout last all season, and have the new CBA "fix" the majority of the issues that plague the league, as opposed to getting something hastily done which will just put us back in the same place in a few years.
Checks date of this post - sees it is not 2004 - cool.

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Old
09-13-2012, 01:05 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
I just find it ODD that Ron Hainsey is the NHLPA player point man, when he exhibited no apparent leadership or public personae during his entire tenure with the CBJ.
I seem to recall him being our union rep previously.

Personally, I still have the Crew and Buckeye football. For now.

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09-13-2012, 01:09 PM
  #337
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I want hockey this month. If they have to go back and do it again in five years, fine. Who knows what the world will look like by then? In the mean time, I'll have hockey as a diversion.

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Old
09-13-2012, 01:32 PM
  #338
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From PuckDaddy,

Two interesting views on the current stalemate:

• Stephen Brunt on the fans in this lockout mess: "You have no dog in this fight. There's no relationship between ticket prices and players salaries, nor has there ever been. The owners will continue to charge whatever the market will bear, and not a penny less. Some of you can afford that, some of you can't, and it has always been thus." [Sportsnet]

• Jason Bourne believes solidarity among players is B.S. and think a good number want to play right now. "The old guys are worried about losing years, shots at the Cup, and not making back the money they'd forfeit even if the players did get a better deal. The younger guys want to get that first year of paychecks, to eat up their entry level contracts, and move closer to their big payday. Hey, you only have so many hockey playing years in your body, you gotta cash in while you can." [Backhand Shelf]

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Old
09-13-2012, 02:06 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
I'm in agreement here. I can live without the NHL. I have Ft Wayne near enough to watch hockey. I would rather a CBA be reached that benefits the Blue Jackets. If we lose a season, so be it.
I haven't been to a Komets game in 30 years. Do they still play at the War Memorial? IHL hockey has a rough edge to it, can't find that much anymore.

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Old
09-13-2012, 02:13 PM
  #340
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I haven't been to a Komets game in 30 years. Do they still play at the War Memorial? IHL hockey has a rough edge to it, can't find that much anymore.
Well, the ECHL has some of that from what I have heard

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09-13-2012, 02:31 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Two interesting views on the current stalemate:

• Stephen Brunt on the fans in this lockout mess: "You have no dog in this fight. There's no relationship between ticket prices and players salaries, nor has there ever been. The owners will continue to charge whatever the market will bear, and not a penny less. Some of you can afford that, some of you can't, and it has always been thus." [Sportsnet]
Yes, they certainly will charge whatever the market will bare. Having said that, ticket prices in large markets are increase revenue streams. That increases the Cap as well as the Floor. That artificially increases player salaries (for example if you need to spend to hit the floor, amongst other reasons). In addition, the smaller market teams will have to create new revenue streams to adjust to the new floor. At some point that will impact ticket prices. Players will look at net income and want part of that.

To say they are separate issues and no relationship is far too simplistic. At some point prices will increase or the team in question will leave town. Things like the strength of currency and inflation will also impact salaries as well as ticket prices.

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09-13-2012, 02:59 PM
  #342
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I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I am not opposed to this lockout lasting the whole season.

Here's why-
1. We'll be a lot better than last year and we'll be way tougher to play against, but we're still gonna lose a lot. I love the moves made by this organization this summer (can't believe I just wrote that). But, it's going to take some time.

2. The biggest reason we are going to suck is because most of our more skilled players are still very young. They need more development. They will get that this year in Juniors, the AHL, or overseas. They won't be thrown into the NHL fire. Ryan Johanson will be the biggest beneficiary of this.

3. I want to be good and have multiple all stars when we host the all star game. I'm not sure that happens this year. I'd rather wait a year or two.

4. We have 3 first round draft picks. I don't think we are going to be the worst team in the league, so I don't think we'll be picking first. I think we'd be in the 5-7 range. I also think LA and NYR are going to be picking in the 25-30 range. I like our chances of getting higher picks if the season is not played and they do a lottery, like in 05.

5. The NHL financial landscape is screwing teams like Columbus. My biggest goal as a fan is to follow a team that has the chance to win the Cup every year. Teams like Columbus will never have that chance as long as large market teams can get huge cable tv contracts without sharing. I would hope the small market owners will quickly realize the players are not the problem here, it's the big market owners who can get cable contracts in the hundreds of millions. One day some small market professional sports owner is finally going to have the nerve to say, "wait a minute Fox Sports, how many people do you think will watch the Kings play an intra-squad scrimmage on TV? Cause that's what's going to happen when small market teams like us stop traveling to LA."

The NFL is far and away the most popular and most successful league right now. Wanna know why? Every team has a chance to win every week. That's because the league doesn't let owners keep TV money, they split it all equally. When that happens in the NHL, Columbus will have a chance to win the Cup every year.

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Old
09-13-2012, 03:03 PM
  #343
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I believe it has been the owner's plan to lock out another season all along.

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09-13-2012, 03:08 PM
  #344
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I believe it has been the owner's plan to lock out another season all along.
The owners were ready to negotiate in January. Players didn't want to. Players keep making the same proposal with minor switches. The players are trying to get back at the owners for 05 and to show how united they are. Owners are the ones signing off on the lockout, but it isn't like they are the only reason.

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09-13-2012, 03:34 PM
  #345
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I haven't been to a Komets game in 30 years. Do they still play at the War Memorial? IHL hockey has a rough edge to it, can't find that much anymore.
Yes, they still play at War Memorial and they are now in the ECHL. I believe as an Anaheim Duck affiliate. The Komets are actually 1 hour closer drive for me then Columbus.

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09-13-2012, 07:13 PM
  #346
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I seem to recall him being our union rep previously.

Personally, I still have the Crew and Buckeye football. For now.
Probably because he lost a bet.

As much as I look forward to the start of the season I have no sympathy for all these millionaires. Please remember that the fans will end up paying for whatever "deal" both sides eventually take to the bank.

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Old
09-13-2012, 08:02 PM
  #347
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Too frustrated with both sides to really comment much on the lockout. I just can't believe that we're going to do this again after the last one.

Putting that aside, what is at stake here for Franklin County now that they own Nationwide? They lose alot of dates on the calendar. How much are the taxpayers on the hook for, or was there some sort of provision in the contract that covered this possibility?

Seems like this would be a good article for the Dispatch, unless the answer has already been well-documented. Nothing like the thought of taxpayers being gouged to crank up some heat on McConnell and the players.

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09-13-2012, 09:04 PM
  #348
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Too frustrated with both sides to really comment much on the lockout. I just can't believe that we're going to do this again after the last one.

Putting that aside, what is at stake here for Franklin County now that they own Nationwide? They lose alot of dates on the calendar. How much are the taxpayers on the hook for, or was there some sort of provision in the contract that covered this possibility?

Seems like this would be a good article for the Dispatch, unless the answer has already been well-documented. Nothing like the thought of taxpayers being gouged to crank up some heat on McConnell and the players.
They're allowed to book thirty days out from every day that passes without a new CBA

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09-14-2012, 05:54 AM
  #349
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For those that still care, here is an interesting article with a good explanation of the two proposals

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...+Article+Links

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09-14-2012, 07:35 AM
  #350
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For those that still care, here is an interesting article with a good explanation of the two proposals

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...+Article+Links
I think that covers everyone here.

Thanks for the link

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