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In (Partial) Defense Of Scott Howson's Recent Trade History

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Old
09-13-2012, 07:39 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
I agree with 1, 2. But 3rd trade was just horrible. Anisomov isn't really a good top 6, let alone an avg. one. And Dubinsky had 3rd line value at the time. + A late pick and a good prospect for a 30-35 goal scorer
lol.

In 10-11, Dubinsky and Anisimov were the 2/3rds of the Rangers top line.

Anisimov is skilled, big, two way center that all 30 teams would love to have. He is going to play 1000 NHL games IMO and carve out a career like Zubrus at worst. I still think he has the skill and upside to be a fixture on a team's 2nd line. Who doesn't want a big, 6foot 4, skilled, 2-way center for their 2nd line?

Dubinsky, I agree is a 2nd/3rd line tweener type, but he is still a quality player. His work ethic, combined with his board play makes him a very valuable asset from line 1 to line 3. I also see him having a long career. 10-11 and 11-12 were both aberrations for Dubinsky, he likely falls in the 20g-40 pt range consistently.

Erixon is a top 30 prospect in the league with great hockey IQ. He'll never outmuscle players on the board, which is why he was dealt instead of say a Del Zotto. He can't play in the Rangers grinding system, but that doesn't mean he's a bad player. He is wildcard between a Stralman or Kim Johnsson type.

That is top notch value for any player, let alone one of the most overpaid guys in the game.

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09-13-2012, 07:45 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post

#3: Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, Tim Erixon, NYR 1st 2013 to Columbus for Rick Nash.
Most folks would think it constructive because:
* Nash had asked for a trade because thanks to Jeff Carter destroying the place, pretty much all team progress had gone out the window and at least a reshuffle was inevitable.
* Between this trade and ongoing development, Columbus went from having one top-line player and not enough quality forwards to fill out the rest of the top-6 to having enough capable players to run three "second lines". Scoring-by-committee, GO!
* Columbus actually got more back than predicted by the HF groupthink mob - given that most folks were suggesting deals along the lines of one roster forward (Dubi), one lesser-quality prospect forward (sometimes Miller), and a 1st.

HOWEVER:
* Howson revealed the trade request, which was... ill-considered at best.
* Columbus didn't get Chris Kreider - they had to settle for NYR's #2 prospect in Tim Erixon. (Never mind that this was partially predicted by the aforementioned groupthink mob...).
* Dubinsky is perceived to have had a "down year" based on his point scoring totals, and nobody thinks rebounding in someplace like Columbus is possible. (Nobody ever rebounds in Columbus, after all, right? Pay no attention to JMFJ.)
* Erixon treated Calgary poorly in the past, and so folks assume he'll do the same to Columbus. (To be fair, this is also a fear of many Jackets fans, although his initial comments post-trade have partially alleviated this.)
* While Columbus might actually have enough top-6 capable forwards to fill out an entire top-9, there are no generally accepted and/or proven top-line forwards left on the roster. (Unless, of course, some kids break out, but that doesn't qualify as "proven", and nobody ever gives any Columbus prospects any credit whatsoever.)
* Since folks have already concluded that the prior two trades were badly lost, there's now an assumption that Howson inevitably loses trades "by default".
* This is Columbus we're talking about here. They finished last overall, y'know.

RATIONAL CONCLUSION:
This was a quality hockey trade, despite the self-sabotage at the deadline.

CBJ HOMER CONCLUSION:
This trade means we have enough quality forwards that we'll make the playoffs next year. It's a winner based on that alone. /thread

HF GROUPTHINK CONCLUSION:
Colombus lost this trade so badly they don't even have a team capable of competing in the AHL or ECHL anymore, and Howsen is not just easily the worst GM in the NHL AINEC but probably also incapable of tying his shoes in the morning and not drooling on himself.
Selected memory there. He really didn't get more than was being predicted. He didn't get Kreider. Or McDonaugh. Or Del Zotto. Or Stepan. Or Hagelin. He didn't get a top prospect which was what was being bandied about or at least what he needed to get from a Nash trade. Honestly, if this was the package that Howson was desiring, the deal could have been made at the trade deadline.

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Old
09-13-2012, 07:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
lol.

In 10-11, Dubinsky and Anisimov were the 2/3rds of the Rangers top line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Anisimov is skilled, big, two way center that all 30 teams would love to have. He is going to play 1000 NHL games IMO and carve out a career like Zubrus at worst. I still think he has the skill and upside to be a fixture on a team's 2nd line. Who doesn't want a big, 6foot 4, skilled, 2-way center for their 2nd line?
More selective memory. He's also wildly inconsistent, lacks hockey IQ, has questionable compete level and his skill doesn't match his production.

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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
lDubinsky, I agree is a 2nd/3rd line tweener type, but he is still a quality player. His work ethic, combined with his board play makes him a very valuable asset from line 1 to line 3. I also see him having a long career. 10-11 and 11-12 were both aberrations for Dubinsky, he likely falls in the 20g-40 pt range consistently.
He also lacks hockey IQ, has never figured out what kind of player he is and at 4.2M is overpaid for a 2nd to 3rd liner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
lErixon is a top 30 prospect in the league with great hockey IQ. He'll never outmuscle players on the board, which is why he was dealt instead of say a Del Zotto. He can't play in the Rangers grinding system, but that doesn't mean he's a bad player. He is wildcard between a Stralman or Kim Johnsson type.
The reason why he was dealt instead of Del Zotto is because he's pretty much average at everything across the board. Del Zotto is an above average offensive defenseman. I also question Erixon's compete level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
That is top notch value for any player, let alone one of the most overpaid guys in the game.
For a team in full rebuild mode, they didn't get a top notch return. Both AA and Dubi as close to being dime a dozen players.

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09-13-2012, 07:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
I disagree about the groupthink on #2. I remember pretty much everyone thinking Howson got more than we expected.
That's not what we've been regularly hearing from folks who comment on the trade... but we've had folks going out of their way to bash the Jackets all summer, so it wouldn't really surprise me if the "silent majority" thought it was a solid deal.

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Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
The biggest problem with trading for Carter wasn't his off ice problems
Saying this suggests that you didn't necessarily see them in action. Especially since they also became on-ice problems. The easy way to describe it is that this "excellent backchecker" was frequently guilty of turning the puck over in the offensive zone... and finding himself as the only hockey player save the opposition's goaltender still in the offensive zone when the resulting goal would be scored against.

We might not have been able to play them on the same line, but there were workarounds possible for that. But that would have required that Carter actually play the game to the extent his abilities allowed while he was here.

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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
I somewhat agree with your first assessment, though regardless of Couturier dropping I still thought Philly got the slight edge in that deal. However, I look at the 2 Carter deals in conjunction and feel CBJ recouped their losses. JMFJ is better than Voracek, and if the whole season is locked out and we have another lottery for the draft, the Jackets are laughing. 3 picks, their own having 3 lottery balls, should give them an excellent chance at nabbing one top 5 pick for sure. Couple that with the fact the 2013 draft promises to be one of the best drafts in a while and a little lottery luck could erase some bad memories pretty quick.
We're not counting on this. We've had a tremendous amount of lottery bad luck. In defiance of probability, the historical odds are generally 50/50 that we stay where we are OR the team immediately behind us in the lottery wins it and jumps ahead of us. So, yeah, counting on lottery luck other than bad luck tends not to be popular among the Jackets faithful.

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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
The Wiz signing was a poor move IMO.
Didn't bring this one up 'cause this is about his trades, not free agency - and Howson's free agency moves are very hit-or-miss. That said, this one didn't pay off as well in the first year due to injuries (but then again, that's true of literally everybody we added save Prospal - of the five players we added last season, Prospal played just shy of all the other four combined), but given his budding bromance with JMFJ (and the fact that they were a plus pairing) there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

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Last edited by Viqsi: 09-13-2012 at 07:59 PM. Reason: just shy of, not more - Wiz was 48 (thought 42), Carter was 39 (thought 33). Whoops.
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Old
09-13-2012, 08:01 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Selected memory there. He really didn't get more than was being predicted. He didn't get Kreider. Or McDonaugh. Or Del Zotto. Or Stepan. Or Hagelin.
We were being repeatedly told "three assets max", and that none of those assets could be among the players you listed. I believe the most common combos were Dubi, Erixon, and one of Thomas or Miller. Occasionally Del Zotto would be allowed to be discussed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Honestly, if this was the package that Howson was desiring, the deal could have been made at the trade deadline.
Hardly. What we were getting offered at the trade deadline was fewer roster players and more futures. If it could have happened then, it would have.

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09-13-2012, 08:09 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
We were being repeatedly told "three assets max", and that none of those assets could be among the players you listed. I believe the most common combos were Dubi, Erixon, and one of Thomas or Miller. Occasionally Del Zotto would be allowed to be discussed.
So then what was the hold up?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Hardly. What we were getting offered at the trade deadline was fewer roster players and more futures. If it could have happened then, it would have.
I don't see one player you got in this trade that the Rangers would have balked at if that was the asking price at the deadline.

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09-13-2012, 08:33 PM
  #32
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In all fairness, is Columbus really much worse on paper than STL?

They are some good coaching away from being a dangerous team.

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09-13-2012, 08:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Howson's biggest mistake was not addressing the team's goaltending... This remains his biggest mistake.

If he traded the 8th overall for Schneider last year, CBJ fights to make the playoffs and likely still has Nash.
Bobrovsky, Oscar Dansk.

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09-13-2012, 08:55 PM
  #34
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I can see Ottawa and Columbus being good trading partners for prospects.

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09-13-2012, 08:58 PM
  #35
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He's not the worst GM. That title belongs to Feaster. Beyond getting screwed by Nash forcing Howson to deal him to NY, none of his moves were really that bad. In fact, some are quite good.

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09-13-2012, 09:19 PM
  #36
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In all fairness, is Columbus really much worse on paper than STL?

They are some good coaching away from being a dangerous team.
Yes... Yes they are. The Blues are a damn good team. I'm pulling for CBJ, but they don't have a dman who's even close to Pietrangelo and their forwards aren't any closer

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09-13-2012, 09:20 PM
  #37
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If we combine the first two trades (which essentially eliminates Jeff Carter from the equation). Voracek plus CBJ 2011 1rst and third for JJ and LA 2012 or 2013 1rst.

IMO that looks reasonable. What do you think?

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09-13-2012, 09:20 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Advance warning: If you're here just to reply "tl;dr" or "lol" or similar - this is not an attempt to find who specifically doesn't care to consider or discuss viewpoints other than the groupthink norm, so such input is neither helpful nor necessary and is therefore generally unwelcome. Just an advance FYI.

* * *

There seems to be a running perception that Scott Howson is not just the GM of the team that did the worst last year, but also that he's far and away the worst GM in the NHL at everything he does. This seems a tad excessive, and is generally not a conclusion based on rational analysis. Anyone could tell you that his team-building attempt last offseason was a failure, but folks have run with that information to an absurd degree.

In particular, Howson is getting vilified as being horrible at trades. This makes most folks who follow his moves regularly laugh incredulously, but it's become a truism of HFBoards, enshrined along with other pieces of inalienable "wisdom" such as "Luongo can't win big games", "Pavel Bure was a cherry-picker", "Every (Leafs/Habs/Oilers/etc.) fan is a homer", and "Phoenix and New Jersey will miss the playoffs next year."

It's to the point that I've started to distinguish between Scott Howson, semicompetent GM of the Columbus Blue Jackets, and "Scott Howsen", village idiot of the Colombus Blow Jackets. Unfortunately, many seem to assume that they're the same person.

Let's take a quick look at those three recent big trades that seem to be the center of the issue, and see how groupthink accentuating the negative affects conclusions as to how they are perceived. As a comparative, I've included "conclusions" based on similarly overaccentuating the positive for Columbus - and yes, I laughed at them too.

And no, I'm not even bringing up Nikita Nikitin. Well, okay, not in any significant fashion.

So!


#1: Jeff Carter to Columbus for Voracek, CBJ 1st 2011, CBJ 3rd 2011.
Most folks would think it constructive because:
* It's fair value for a fairly effective goal scorer.
* Possible chemistry with Nash aside, Columbus had never been high on top-line talent players and could significantly benefit.
* The 1st was well outside of any position where folks could normally get a major impact player, especially after the Devils won the lottery and thereby kicked it back from 7th to 8th overall.

HOWEVER:
* To say Carter didn't work out here would be a gross understatement - his reaction to coming here was literally unprecedented in the history of the NHL in terms of just how badly he reacted, performed, and treated everyone else on the roster.
* Sean Couturier inexplicably dropped to 8th overall after some curious draft selection choices - particularly by Ottawa and Winnipeg.
* Folks started noticing Voracek as the player he is - not the player he could be, but what he is - and instead of reaching the accurate conclusion that they're not paying enough attention to CBJ players and had underrated him, instead perversely concluded that Voracek had somehow "broken out" after being "freed" from the Jackets.
* This is Columbus we're talking about here. They finished last overall, y'know.

RATIONAL CONCLUSION:
This was a trade that seemed justified and well-dome at the time, but has backfired badly - both due to bad luck (Couturier, the unprecedented extent of Carter's madness) and due to issues that should have been foreseen (that Carter would be frustrated at all). It is a black mark.

CBJ HOMER CONCLUSION:
CBJ would have won this trade, but everything conspired against us. It was all bad luck.

HF GROUPTHINK CONCLUSION:
Columbus lost this trade badly, and Howson is an idiot and a fool for having not seen that every bit of this would happen.


#2: Jack Johnson and LA 1st (2012 or 2013, CBJ option) to Columbus for Jeff Carter.
Most folks would think it constructive because:
* See above re: how Jeff Carter damn near destroyed what little cohesion was left among the Jackets. He was a poison pill and had to be removed ASAP.
* Columbus's blueline had been ravaged by injuries; adding a quality player like JMFJ really helped.
* Unlike Carter, JMFJ was (and is) enthusiastic to be part of the Jackets and happy to turn what had become a malignant locker room into an uptempo, uplifting place.
* By the end of the year, JMFJ was a plus player (for the first time in his NHL career) and is looking like the favorite for the since-vacated captaincy.

HOWEVER:
* JMFJ has a hatedom, especially among advanced stats folks.
* Carter's record in Columbus was, as previously stated, g-dawful... and somehow that's held against this trade for reasons I cannot adequately explain beyond "people are stupid".
* The doctrine of "every trade always and inevitably has exactly one winner and one loser" in this case pays more attention to the fact that the Kings won the Cup.
* This is Columbus we're talking about here. They finished last overall, y'know.

RATIONAL CONCLUSION:
This was a very well executed trade that did an excellent job of making up for an earlier error, particularly given the extent to which Carter was dogging the team.

CBJ HOMER CONCLUSION:
CBJ won this trade by a country mile because JMFJ is a much better player than Carter and we got a 1st too!

HF GROUPTHINK CONCLUSION
Columbus gave away a quality forward for nothing, Howson is actively destroying anything resembling a team, and CBJ completely and utterly lost this trade AINEC.


#3: Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, Tim Erixon, NYR 1st 2013 to Columbus for Rick Nash.
Most folks would think it constructive because:
* Nash had asked for a trade because thanks to Jeff Carter destroying the place, pretty much all team progress had gone out the window and at least a reshuffle was inevitable.
* Between this trade and ongoing development, Columbus went from having one top-line player and not enough quality forwards to fill out the rest of the top-6 to having enough capable players to run three "second lines". Scoring-by-committee, GO!
* Columbus actually got more back than predicted by the HF groupthink mob - given that most folks were suggesting deals along the lines of one roster forward (Dubi), one lesser-quality prospect forward (sometimes Miller), and a 1st.

HOWEVER:
* Howson revealed the trade request, which was... ill-considered at best.
* Columbus didn't get Chris Kreider - they had to settle for NYR's #2 prospect in Tim Erixon. (Never mind that this was partially predicted by the aforementioned groupthink mob...).
* Dubinsky is perceived to have had a "down year" based on his point scoring totals, and nobody thinks rebounding in someplace like Columbus is possible. (Nobody ever rebounds in Columbus, after all, right? Pay no attention to JMFJ.)
* Erixon treated Calgary poorly in the past, and so folks assume he'll do the same to Columbus. (To be fair, this is also a fear of many Jackets fans, although his initial comments post-trade have partially alleviated this.)
* While Columbus might actually have enough top-6 capable forwards to fill out an entire top-9, there are no generally accepted and/or proven top-line forwards left on the roster. (Unless, of course, some kids break out, but that doesn't qualify as "proven", and nobody ever gives any Columbus prospects any credit whatsoever.)
* Since folks have already concluded that the prior two trades were badly lost, there's now an assumption that Howson inevitably loses trades "by default".
* This is Columbus we're talking about here. They finished last overall, y'know.

RATIONAL CONCLUSION:
This was a quality hockey trade, despite the self-sabotage at the deadline.

CBJ HOMER CONCLUSION:
This trade means we have enough quality forwards that we'll make the playoffs next year. It's a winner based on that alone. /thread

HF GROUPTHINK CONCLUSION:
Colombus lost this trade so badly they don't even have a team capable of competing in the AHL or ECHL anymore, and Howsen is not just easily the worst GM in the NHL AINEC but probably also incapable of tying his shoes in the morning and not drooling on himself.


Overall conclusion: Howson's judged as a poor trader because folks are accentuating the negative and ignoring the positive, and in some cases (Voracek evaluations especially) compounding existing ignorance with further ignorance. What's happened is that a high-profile target backfired spectacularly - in ways that partly could and partly couldn't have been forseen - and Eternal Damnation has unfairly resulted.

To be sure, we probably could (and probably should) do better than Howson. But let's not overstate the issue by claiming he's the worst GM of all time.
Love the thought process put into each deal. And to a large degree I agree with you.

The only problem I see with the Carter deal is that (and this may have been requested and denied) is that Howsen should have demanded to speak with Carter before pulling he trigger to make sure that a guy that just signed a long-term team friendly would be willing to play for Columbus.

Again, that request may have been made, it may have been denied, but then it SHOULD have raised an immediate red flag.

The intent behind getting Carter was absolutely logical. You add a talent like Carter to Nash and you have potential for magic. No one could have or should have expected Carter to pout like a little girl the way he did.

I like the return they got for Carter in Jack Johnson. Think he can get better defensively and he will put up som solid points as well. A top pair defenceman and they get a 1st as well. Very solid return.

The Nash trade was a solid deal as well. Dubinsky WILL get back to his 45-55 points range. I expect AA to increase his averages back into the 40+ point range as well. Erixon can't hurt and they get a 1st to boot.

Overall I think he did fairly well.

The trade that I think is going to really benefit Columbus more than most expect is the Methot for Foligno trade.

The depth on Defence was there to move for help up front and this Foligno kid is just coming into his own.

I'm excited to see what the Blue Jackets look like after a pretty decent amount of turnover over the last 12 months.

Again, great write up. I enjoyed that.

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Old
09-13-2012, 09:29 PM
  #39
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So then what was the hold up?





I don't see one player you got in this trade that the Rangers would have balked at if that was the asking price at the deadline.
I doubt very highly that the Rangers diminish their depth at the deadline by dealing both AA and Dubisnky.

The focus and goal AT THAT TIME was to add to the roster, not take away from it.

I'm actually glad Columbus said no then.,

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09-13-2012, 10:00 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
He's not the worst GM. That title belongs to Feaster. Beyond getting screwed by Nash forcing Howson to deal him to NY, none of his moves were really that bad. In fact, some are quite good.
Right, because good GM's come in last place 3 years in a row...

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09-13-2012, 10:08 PM
  #41
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Trading wise, I think Howson is alright, it's some of his other stuff that I don't like as much because to me what makes a good GM is not just trading. That stuff being things like at the trade deadline where he announced that Nash had pretty much asked for a trade but didn't trade him dragging it on for months and in the end getting a package that he probably could've gotten at the deadline.

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09-13-2012, 10:20 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I doubt very highly that the Rangers diminish their depth at the deadline by dealing both AA and Dubisnky.

The focus and goal AT THAT TIME was to add to the roster, not take away from it.

I'm actually glad Columbus said no then.,
In lieu of actually having gotten back to basically make this same point, I'll just endorse this reply. It's the combination - particularly at the deadline - that I think would have made Sather blink.

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Right, because good GM's come in last place 3 years in a row...
To be fair, nobody's actually done that in recent memory.

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Old
09-14-2012, 02:07 AM
  #43
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Positives in my view:
- Turning a disgruntled Adam Foote into RJ Umberger.
- Turning a disgruntled Jeff Carter into Jack Johnson + 1st 2012 or 2013.
- Turning Kris Russell into Nikita Nikitin
- Turning Pascal Leclaire into Antoine Vermette

We have yet to see how the Nash thing goes. If it was the best offer and Nash was demanding a trade (as I believe), then Howson didn't really have a choice.

Really where Howson sucks in my opinion is in his personnel hirings. Arniel and the assistants were really bad. I'm not a fan of Tyler Wright as development and now head of scouting. He did just replace all of the scouts, but we'll see how that goes.

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09-14-2012, 02:18 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Yes... Yes they are. The Blues are a damn good team. I'm pulling for CBJ, but they don't have a dman who's even close to Pietrangelo and their forwards aren't any closer
Im not saying they have a guy like Pietrangelo, but building around Wiz, JJ and Murray on the back end really aint so bad.

STL found success in rolling 3 lines of guys who could be 50 point guys.

That appears to be a similar mold to CBJ's current lineup.

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09-14-2012, 04:55 AM
  #45
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Very well thought out OP. I will not pretend I am real high on Howson as a GM. He is the guy you poke fun of right now, has not been an awesome run but I agree that things have gone sideways on a level he should not have expected.

Will say this though if the NYI really did offer him their whole draft to move down two spots. Well than he should get crushed really hard for that over all these other trades he actually did pull. Because that is a total failure on his part not to accept that deal, now you might be only grading trades at the endpoint so that could be going different than your original plan. Although Snow is an even bigger idiot for offerning it in the first place.

Some of the people that believe Howson makes mistakes could also point out his timing in a lot of instances. The NYI example or the belief New York's original package might have been better are out there. I can see how and why deals are done as important, but likewise considering when is an important notion as well.

By the way blaming almost everything on Carter and the way you present it is also a little heavy handed here, it should have happened in some cases under the homer view because it went too far. He failed spectacularly in Columbus, but it isn't like he showed up and wrecked something that was really working awesome before him.

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09-14-2012, 06:26 AM
  #46
handyj
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I mostly agree with you that Howson is a bit unfairly portrayed on here, but that being said I don't think he's necessarily done a good job up to this point. It just seems that he has very little direction or foresight or planning. The Carter trade I think is pretty bad even if he doesn't bomb out just because it reeks of the Phil Kessel trade that Burke gets ragged on here all the time for. A team that is several pieces away and trades two 1sts (albeit one a previous 1st in Voracek) for a player to put them over the top supposedly. But I will give it to him that the trade with LA was good value for the situation.

The Nash deal is hard to say at this point, but to me it somewhat lacks direction too. It's not bad value but it just seems like that value is partially in futures and partially in guys to help now, but that won't help enough to put them over the top. I know Columbus has been rebuilding since day one and their fans are probably tired of it, but if Nash had've been dealt for only futures he'd probably have brought in atleast one more blue chipper to build around. And if the Carter trade had never happened then the Jackets could be building right now around Couturier, Murray, and whatever blue chippers Nash brought in. I know hindsight is 20/20 but overall I just feel sometimes Howson isn't sure if this team is coming or going.

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09-14-2012, 06:37 AM
  #47
handyj
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Positives in my view:
- Turning a disgruntled Adam Foote into RJ Umberger.
- Turning a disgruntled Jeff Carter into Jack Johnson + 1st 2012 or 2013.
- Turning Kris Russell into Nikita Nikitin
- Turning Pascal Leclaire into Antoine Vermette

We have yet to see how the Nash thing goes. If it was the best offer and Nash was demanding a trade (as I believe), then Howson didn't really have a choice.

Really where Howson sucks in my opinion is in his personnel hirings. Arniel and the assistants were really bad. I'm not a fan of Tyler Wright as development and now head of scouting. He did just replace all of the scouts, but we'll see how that goes.
I think Howson has shown a decent propensity for getting decent value in bad situations, but where he lacks as a GM is that he always seems to be in these situations. I know it's not always a GM's or a team's fault when a player is disgruntled, but when there's a history of acquiring top players that aren't happy or end up not happy there then sometime is going on more than just bad luck.

All in the all though I don't think it's trades that have defined the Jackets as a bottom feeder for so long, it's very poor drafting. I know you can do this for almost any team in any draft, but looking back over the years at all the top picks wasted and what could have been, that's the difference between being the top and bottom of the league. One key theme of good teams is generally that they draft well and uncover good finds after the 1st round. Columbus has been overall quite bad in the 1st round and almost non-existant in the other rounds.

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09-14-2012, 06:49 AM
  #48
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I think Columbus needs even more players that can play center lol. And Nash's value was compromised as soon as Howson admitted that Nash was open to a trade. He should of dropped that rumor in a much more subtle fashion, and let Nash's value climb.

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09-14-2012, 07:28 AM
  #49
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Im not saying they have a guy like Pietrangelo, but building around Wiz, JJ and Murray on the back end really aint so bad.

STL found success in rolling 3 lines of guys who could be 50 point guys.

That appears to be a similar mold to CBJ's current lineup.
They're still missing goaltending and a Backes-type player.

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09-14-2012, 07:32 AM
  #50
LSnow
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Carter trade was a wash, since JMFJ was bad in LA.
First Carter trade would have been good if he didnt get injured, and then pout.
Nash trade was horrible, not because of value, but because he didnt get any good asset out of it, just some random 2-3rd liners that you get every UFA year.

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