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Red Wings Prospects Tracker - Part IV - The Search for More Prospects

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Old
09-13-2012, 03:23 PM
  #101
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Jarnkrok played over 21 minutes in Brynas's game today, next closest forward played 17 something

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09-13-2012, 04:10 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Jarnkrok played over 21 minutes in Brynas's game today, next closest forward played 17 something
Not surprising, with Silfverberg in Ottawa this year, well unless the lockout changes that I don't know there. Jarnkrok is easily the best forward on that team. Can play all situations, hoping for a top 5 finish in points in the league this year and a bigger role on the Sweden WC team this coming season.

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09-13-2012, 04:19 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Not surprising, with Silfverberg in Ottawa this year, well unless the lockout changes that I don't know there. Jarnkrok is easily the best forward on that team. Can play all situations, hoping for a top 5 finish in points in the league this year and a bigger role on the Sweden WC team this coming season.
Järnkrok might be the best point producer but i'd say the over all best forward at the moment is Thuresson. Mighty impressive during the pre-season.

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09-13-2012, 04:33 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstroms pads View Post
Järnkrok might be the best point producer but i'd say the over all best forward at the moment is Thuresson. Mighty impressive during the pre-season.
Sorry have seen him a lot with the Milwaukee Admirals. If he is on one of his months of solid play that is great. But if he is the best forward on the team I need to re-evaluate just how high I am on Jarnkrok and what I have seen when I have turned in his games online. I want him to be on a good team, so glad to hear Thuresson is off to a good start, but he has average hockey sense and a below average shot and release. I understand he is big and pretty responsible defensively, but I never found him exceptional in any part of the game. Maybe he will transition back to European hockey in a big way but he was at best a marginal talent on this side of the pond.

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09-13-2012, 04:51 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Sorry have seen him a lot with the Milwaukee Admirals. If he is on one of his months of solid play that is great. But if he is the best forward on the team I need to re-evaluate just how high I am on Jarnkrok and what I have seen when I have turned in his games online. I want him to be on a good team, so glad to hear Thuresson is off to a good start, but he has average hockey sense and a below average shot and release. I understand he is big and pretty responsible defensively, but I never found him exceptional in any part of the game. Maybe he will transition back to European hockey in a big way but he was at best a marginal talent on this side of the pond.
I've watched this team since i could walk, i think i've missed about 20 games since then, and this might be one of the best Brynäs teams i've seen iced in the last 15 years. Thuresson is the right player for this team, he fits in to his role next to Järnkrok perfectly. Just because he didn't get to play an offensive role in the AHL for most of the time doesn't mean he is a bad offensive player. He made a jaw dropping penalty shot to win us the game just two hours ago. You also have Harju on Järnkroks left wing. To say Calle is the best by a fair margin just shows you know little to nothing about the team he plays on.

Calle is by far the most talented guy on the team though, he's much more talented that Silfverberg is, but there are still so,so many things he needs to work on. Last year his totals were inflated because he played with Silfverberg. This year he gets a great supporting cast again. He's not very good defensively, or at least not while trying to knock other players of the puck. He's going to have to rely on his quick stick, wich needs to get even quicker, to steal the puck away from his opponents. Though i'll give him that when he gets the puck in the defensive zone he usually gets it up ice very very fast.

He still gets knocked off the puck to easily on the attack, he holds on to the puck way to long in the offensive zone, he tries to dangle to much, he always tries a faked middle-of-the-step-shot that almost never works. He's sometimes frustrating to watch on the attack, borderline annoying and i wish we'd put some one else in his spot, because you know with his skill set he could be so much more effective . He still dives when he gets frustrated.

Thats about it.

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09-13-2012, 05:30 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstroms pads View Post
I've watched this team since i could walk, i think i've missed about 20 games since then, and this might be one of the best Brynäs teams i've seen iced in the last 15 years. Thuresson is the right player for this team, he fits in to his role next to Järnkrok perfectly. Just because he didn't get to play an offensive role in the AHL for most of the time doesn't mean he is a bad offensive player. He made a jaw dropping penalty shot to win us the game just two hours ago. You also have Harju on Järnkroks left wing. To say Calle is the best by a fair margin just shows you know little to nothing about the team he plays on.

Calle is by far the most talented guy on the team though, he's much more talented that Silfverberg is, but there are still so,so many things he needs to work on. Last year his totals were inflated because he played with Silfverberg. This year he gets a great supporting cast again. He's not very good defensively, or at least not while trying to knock other players of the puck. He's going to have to rely on his quick stick, wich needs to get even quicker, to steal the puck away from his opponents. Though i'll give him that when he gets the puck in the defensive zone he usually gets it up ice very very fast.

He still gets knocked off the puck to easily on the attack, he holds on to the puck way to long in the offensive zone, he tries to dangle to much, he always tries a faked middle-of-the-step-shot that almost never works. He's sometimes frustrating to watch on the attack, borderline annoying and i wish we'd put some one else in his spot, because you know with his skill set he could be so much more effective . He still dives when he gets frustrated.

Thats about it.
Hey it is your home team and glad you can give feedback on it. I only get to watch them from time to time. You can say I know little to nothing about Brynäs, but I can tell you a lot about Thuresson since I have seen him in person close to 100 times and many more games on television. You see that cuts both ways, what your using as an argument against me could make my opinion on Thuresson all the more damning. To say he wasn't placed in offensive roles is inaccurate. He did little to earn them and was never very good when there. It does describe his last season in North America, but he was given ample shots in Milwaukee and failed to impress more often than he ran with them.

When watching games in Europe it is often easy to see some guys talent far outpaces others. Now that is my opinion but I have developed that from watching a ton of hockey and following European hockey for the last 10-15 years.

Järnkrok's skill set you talk about is what sets him apart. It might be frustrating at times, but it is exceptional. That getting the puck up the ice very very fast is a part of his decision making that I see as encouraging for when he is dropped in leagues where that is way more critical. North American hockey and in particular the NHL is a very fast transitional game. I don't care about the diving and he has improved a ton at getting stronger on the puck and taking it away. It still has a ways to go, but he has made huge gains in that area.

What makes a player successful in North America often has to due with raw talent or physical skill set. If you don't have it, making it over here is just a lot harder. By the way in my opinion Harju is also better than Thuresson, his skating was what held him back over here and to a degree in the KHL.

Everyone has opinions on certain players. My opinion on Thuresson is pretty low, hope Järnkrok brings out the best in him. He played his best hockey in Milwaukee with Cal O'Reilly (09-10 before his promotion they were very good together) a cerebral less physical playmaking centerman with good vision. Järnkrok is a much better version of Cal, so maybe it will be a nice fit. I certainly hope so because I would love to see a big season for Järnkrok and your favorite team.

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09-13-2012, 10:32 PM
  #107
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Anybody have video of Calle's shootout goal?

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09-14-2012, 03:41 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsRatchet View Post
Anybody have video of Calle's shootout goal?
I'm at work and can't watch flash vids but it should be in the highlights.

http://www.elitserienplay.se/#/video.1839108196001

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405
Hey it is your home team and glad you can give feedback on it. I only get to watch them from time to time. You can say I know little to nothing about Brynäs, but I can tell you a lot about Thuresson since I have seen him in person close to 100 times and many more games on television. You see that cuts both ways, what your using as an argument against me could make my opinion on Thuresson all the more damning. To say he wasn't placed in offensive roles is inaccurate. He did little to earn them and was never very good when there. It does describe his last season in North America, but he was given ample shots in Milwaukee and failed to impress more often than he ran with them.
Those are his own words not mine. And i'm going by what my eyes tell me. What he has done in seasons past is irrelevant to me. Right now Thuresson is better than Järnkrok.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405
When watching games in Europe it is often easy to see some guys talent far outpaces others. Now that is my opinion but I have developed that from watching a ton of hockey and following European hockey for the last 10-15 years.
What hinders most of the top players from europe from playing in the NHL is often that they, while being very talented, lack in one(or more) of the key facets of the game. Not neccisairly that their skill level is far below that of an NHL-player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405
Järnkrok's skill set you talk about is what sets him apart. It might be frustrating at times, but it is exceptional. That getting the puck up the ice very very fast is a part of his decision making that I see as encouraging for when he is dropped in leagues where that is way more critical. North American hockey and in particular the NHL is a very fast transitional game. I don't care about the diving and he has improved a ton at getting stronger on the puck and taking it away. It still has a ways to go, but he has made huge gains in that area.
He has put on a few pounds yes, that much is obvious when i've watched the last few games. However it's not really his size that worries me. It's that he won't be able to bundle all his indiviual skills together.

I should add though that last year, when everything clicked for him he was easily on of the top three players in the league. When he's on his game he's so, so shifty and combined with his puck handling skills and passing that makes him almost unstoppable. The problem is there flashes occur much to far appart. He needs to focus, keep it relativaly simple, and not overdoo his dangly stuff wich, as i said, might be exciting but not very effective. Because when it goes wrong and he looses the puck in the top of the circle there is often a breakaway coming against us instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405
Everyone has opinions on certain players. My opinion on Thuresson is pretty low, hope Järnkrok brings out the best in him. He played his best hockey in Milwaukee with Cal O'Reilly (09-10 before his promotion they were very good together) a cerebral less physical playmaking centerman with good vision. Järnkrok is a much better version of Cal, so maybe it will be a nice fit. I certainly hope so because I would love to see a big season for Järnkrok and your favorite team.
I think Järnkroks season will be similar to last season. He has developed a great deal this off season it seems, at least physically,but the loss of Silfverberg on his wing is going to be very apperant.

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09-14-2012, 04:58 AM
  #109
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Järnkrok dives?

Trade him. The sooner the better.

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09-14-2012, 07:10 AM
  #110
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Link didn't show Calle's shootout goal

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09-14-2012, 10:23 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Markstroms pads View Post
I've watched this team since i could walk, i think i've missed about 20 games since then, and this might be one of the best Brynäs teams i've seen iced in the last 15 years. Thuresson is the right player for this team, he fits in to his role next to Järnkrok perfectly. Just because he didn't get to play an offensive role in the AHL for most of the time doesn't mean he is a bad offensive player. He made a jaw dropping penalty shot to win us the game just two hours ago. You also have Harju on Järnkroks left wing. To say Calle is the best by a fair margin just shows you know little to nothing about the team he plays on.

Calle is by far the most talented guy on the team though, he's much more talented that Silfverberg is, but there are still so,so many things he needs to work on. Last year his totals were inflated because he played with Silfverberg. This year he gets a great supporting cast again. He's not very good defensively, or at least not while trying to knock other players of the puck. He's going to have to rely on his quick stick, wich needs to get even quicker, to steal the puck away from his opponents. Though i'll give him that when he gets the puck in the defensive zone he usually gets it up ice very very fast.

He still gets knocked off the puck to easily on the attack, he holds on to the puck way to long in the offensive zone, he tries to dangle to much, he always tries a faked middle-of-the-step-shot that almost never works. He's sometimes frustrating to watch on the attack, borderline annoying and i wish we'd put some one else in his spot, because you know with his skill set he could be so much more effective . He still dives when he gets frustrated.

Thats about it.
You need to relax about Thuresson mate. He's a defensively responsible guy and a pretty complete player, but I wouldn't be surprised if he just barely scores 30 points. Matt Hendricks can make sick shootout dangles too, that doesn't make him a scorer. Pretty typical intangibles vs skill comparison where intangibles get overrated. You probably know that Calle has been slightly injured and ill the last few weeks aswell, so he'll take a week longer to get into game shape. Even age aside Jarnkrok is better than both Harju and Thuresson and that'll show over the course of the season.

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09-14-2012, 10:42 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
You need to relax about Thuresson mate. He's a defensively responsible guy and a pretty complete player, but I wouldn't be surprised if he just barely scores 30 points. Matt Hendricks can make sick shootout dangles too, that doesn't make him a scorer. Pretty typical intangibles vs skill comparison where intangibles get overrated. You probably know that Calle has been slightly injured and ill the last few weeks aswell, so he'll take a week longer to get into game shape. Even age aside Jarnkrok is better than both Harju and Thuresson and that'll show over the course of the season.
I know, the penalty shot was just an example.

I hope Calle can emerge as one of the better, or even the best player in the legue this year though it's highly unlikey due to inconsistency on his part. I know he is capable of it. But that doesn't mean there arn't things to work on as well. But people and experts here in Sweden over rate him to the point where it's riddiculous. He had a decent regular season last year but was a - player. He was deffinately the weak defensive link on that line. And in a league where defensive play is geting more and more important Calles defense just doesn't cut it for me.

And yes, i value defensive play and intangibles very high.

I'm a big fan of his but i'm not, and never will be, the kind of person that is blind to imperfections of players that play for my own team. I've even said i think he has much more potential than Silfverberg but he has a much longer way before he reaches it. Calle is not even close to the maturity Silfverberg had going in to last season.

I know he's been plagued with illness this pre-season but he's still only played a few games less is not playing better than Thuresson at the moment and that's what counts. That doesn't mean his skill set insn't better but he has to show it!


Last edited by 1912: 09-14-2012 at 10:51 AM.
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09-14-2012, 11:17 AM
  #113
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It looks like i'm basing Calle but i'm really not. But just for the sake of it i'll talk about the things he does well.

Firs of all, he's really worked on his skating. His latteral play and skating is much better than it was a couple of years ago. He has, as mentioned earlier goten stronger and doesn't appear as yeasy to knock of the puck this season. He is a very slippery player. When he comes across the blue line with speed the defensemen have a very hard time cathing him with the puck. His hockey sense is exeptional, maybee the best in the league at the moment, and it looks and seems he's often one step ahead of the play wich leads to passes that sometimes leaves you speechless. That leads me on to his passing that's also grade A. Really quick and more often than not right on the tape even from board to board.

Powerplay is really where he comes in to his stride though. I've described him earlier on Hf as "the puppet master" when he's really on his game. It looks like every one is playing on his terms and where he dictates the play at will and the others just have to tag along for the ride.

Though all this requires , as i mentioned earlier, that he's on his game wich needs to happen more often.

He's also a really smart and humble guy.

This doesn't mean he is above criticism. He's still a prospect and there are bound to be heaps of stuff he's not very good at.

I realize i should't come on here and critizise a wings prospect but the notion that he's the far away best player on the team is simpy not true. At lease not at the moment, because he's not playing like it.

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09-14-2012, 12:55 PM
  #114
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Nah, I don't mind if someone who watches our prospects a lot and criticizes them a little.

Because A) they can prove you wrong and that would be just awesome B) if they won't you were right. I don't see it being a big deal unless it goes to trolling-territory; what I don't think you were doing.

What worries me then is Calle's D; if it's not good enough for SEL, it sure as hell won't be good enough for NHL. It better improve this season or he's starting in AHL 2013.

btw, what do you think of Calle's compete level?

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09-14-2012, 12:55 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstroms pads View Post
he holds on to the puck way to long in the offensive zone, he tries to dangle to much, he always tries a faked middle-of-the-step-shot that almost never works. He's sometimes frustrating to watch on the attack, borderline annoying and i wish we'd put some one else in his spot, because you know with his skill set he could be so much more effective .
It's hard to reconcile this quote with this one:

Quote:
His hockey sense is exeptional, maybee the best in the league at the moment, and it looks and seems he's often one step ahead of the play wich leads to passes that sometimes leaves you speechless.
I mean, the first one sounds like a guy with poor hockey sense. Obviously these are both your quotes, so I'm not saying you think that, because you clearly don't. The first one sounds like modern day Alex Ovechkin in some ways (or even Phil Kessel from a few years ago), and a lot of people point to underdeveloped hockey sense to explain why he struggles so much now. Same moves over and over, holds on to the puck too long at times. Just a predictable, one-dimensional player.

But then in the other quote, he sounds like a dynamic guy who can make stuff happen out of thin air, which really sounds like the opposite. Of course, maybe he just can't do that all the time, and it seems like you mention that. I guess that's part of being a younger guy, though. Most prospects don't have it all happen at once.

Him being so good on the powerplay as compared to even strength seems to point to, well, strength. It feels like with Wings prospects we're constantly waiting for a rail-thin guy with incredible talent to hit even an average weight. Maybe Illitch can open up some Little Caesars in Sweden or something. That could be why Tatar has no problem with this: Grand Rapids has all the fast food you could ever want.


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09-14-2012, 01:04 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eerie Hurdler View Post
It's hard to reconcile this quote with this one:



I mean, the first one sounds like a guy with poor hockey sense. Obviously these are both your quotes, so I'm not saying you think that, because you clearly don't. The first one sounds like modern day Alex Ovechkin in some ways (or even Phil Kessel from a few years ago), and a lot of people point to underdeveloped hockey sense to explain why he struggles so much now. Same moves over and over, holds on to the puck too long at times. Just a predictable, one-dimensional player.

But then in the other quote, he sounds like a dynamic guy who can make stuff happen out of thin air, which really sounds like the opposite. Of course, maybe he just can't do that all the time, and it seems like you mention that. I guess that's part of being a younger guy, though. Most prospects don't have it all happen at once.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstroms pads
Though all this requires , as i mentioned earlier, that he's on his game wich needs to happen more often.
He is still kind of immature as a hockey player, hence when things don't go his way he gets frustrated he tries to do it all on his own by trying to dangle past two-three opponents and then looses the puck wich contributes nothing towards the teams efforts. He needs to contain him self and keep focus. All to often he goes on these runs and just looses the puck.

As i said, when he is on his game, his vision and hockey sense really comes to light.

Most players mature sooner or later and begin to understand what it takes to preform at a consistent level for longer periods of time. Calle is still young and has loads of time.

Quote:
btw, what do you think of Calle's compete level?
Always hustles, in the d-zone as well even though he's still not as good defensively as he could be. Almost never takes a shift off but is prone to dissapear for periods of times in games, though not for lack of effort, but that's the case with most offensive players.

And i still withold that he will need arround one season in the AHL to become a good NHL-player.


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09-14-2012, 07:37 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Markstroms pads View Post
He is still kind of immature as a hockey player, hence when things don't go his way he gets frustrated he tries to do it all on his own by trying to dangle past two-three opponents and then looses the puck wich contributes nothing towards the teams efforts. He needs to contain him self and keep focus. All to often he goes on these runs and just looses the puck.

As i said, when he is on his game, his vision and hockey sense really comes to light.

Most players mature sooner or later and begin to understand what it takes to preform at a consistent level for longer periods of time. Calle is still young and has loads of time.
In that sense, I think it would be amazing for him to be able to watch prime Datsyuk and Zetterberg both on and off the ice. They'd be for him what Lidstrom was for Kronwall.

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09-14-2012, 08:56 PM
  #118
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Vancouver down 4-3 So far Tvrdon with a goal and an assist and is plus 3 with about 10 min left in the 3rd
Edit: Van lost 5-4 in the shootout.

Xavier Ouellet didn't have any points tonight and got into a fight and an instigation penalty plus a misconduct


Last edited by WesNichols14: 09-14-2012 at 09:51 PM.
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09-15-2012, 03:02 AM
  #119
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Yeah, Ouellet had no points but scored in SO. We have replacement for Bert coming up.

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09-15-2012, 08:33 AM
  #120
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Yesterday's stats all together:
Ouellet 0+0, 7 PIM, 1 hit, had a fight and scored the winning goal in the SO.
Hudon 0+0
Tvrdon 1+1, +3
De Haas 1+0, 2 PIM

Probably missing some OHL stats but can't find them.

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09-15-2012, 09:26 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
Yesterday's stats all together:
Ouellet 0+0, 7 PIM, 1 hit, had a fight and scored the winning goal in the SO.
Hudon 0+0
Tvrdon 1+1, +3
De Haas 1+0, 2 PIM

Probably missing some OHL stats but can't find them.
Having the same problems, you have to go to the teams individual web-sites. I don't understand why the OHL one just has up their regular season games and then pre-season score lines when you click around. Would be nice to get boxscores, the teams usually have a nice write up if you click on our guys teams, but a bigger pain if you're just trying to get the numbers for your twitter or to post here.

It seems Ouellet fights a decent amount. I know he is the captain but he must kind of like it the amount of times we read this in his update.

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09-15-2012, 10:57 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Having the same problems, you have to go to the teams individual web-sites. I don't understand why the OHL one just has up their regular season games and then pre-season score lines when you click around. Would be nice to get boxscores, the teams usually have a nice write up if you click on our guys teams, but a bigger pain if you're just trying to get the numbers for your twitter or to post here.

It seems Ouellet fights a decent amount. I know he is the captain but he must kind of like it the amount of times we read this in his update.
He fights just enough to say its a solid dimension to his game. Hes not a huge bruiser and enforcer type but he'll go when he has to. Considering hes the best dman in that league and still does some fighting shows he must like it, or his team is soft as baby **** to have their star fighting

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09-15-2012, 12:01 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
He fights just enough to say its a solid dimension to his game. Hes not a huge bruiser and enforcer type but he'll go when he has to. Considering hes the best dman in that league and still does some fighting shows he must like it, or his team is soft as baby **** to have their star fighting
Kind of what I was getting at, even if he feels it is something he should do as a captain he must kind of like it. I am surprised to see he has kept it up and especially in the pre-season. Then again maybe he does it to focus in seem to remember a bunch of scraps to start last year also. Like it fires him up and gets him back in hockey mode. I don't know, don't expect fighting to be a huge part of his game or anything like that just find it interesting. I think for the first time in a while we have a decent amount of toughness in the NHL club and the pipeline. Some of it from guys I expect to make the team. You won't want to pick on us at dead whistles moving forward or run the goalie. Not because I expect us to be at the top of the league in terms of tough, but there will be a lot more guys around to take you up on certain things that teams like to push the envelope on now.

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09-15-2012, 01:40 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Kind of what I was getting at, even if he feels it is something he should do as a captain he must kind of like it. I am surprised to see he has kept it up and especially in the pre-season. Then again maybe he does it to focus in seem to remember a bunch of scraps to start last year also. Like it fires him up and gets him back in hockey mode. I don't know, don't expect fighting to be a huge part of his game or anything like that just find it interesting. I think for the first time in a while we have a decent amount of toughness in the NHL club and the pipeline. Some of it from guys I expect to make the team. You won't want to pick on us at dead whistles moving forward or run the goalie. Not because I expect us to be at the top of the league in terms of tough, but there will be a lot more guys around to take you up on certain things that teams like to push the envelope on now.
Its true, and its mostly young guys too all under 30. Tootoo, Smith, Ericcson and Abdelkader will be around for a while. Kronwall also has a lot of years left for throwing his weight around. Plus I think Ouellet is likely to make the team eventually. Hes not a huge fighter but will handle pests and stick up for his teammates. Callahan also seems a likely fourth liner and he will be fighting 15 times a year.

Sheahans a big physical guy who says he'll defend his team as well. Mckee, Nedomlel and a few others are all wild cards now but maybe one more tough prospect could pan out. The wings wont be pushed around any longer for sure

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09-15-2012, 04:32 PM
  #125
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Tonight:
Järnkrok 0+0, 1 shot, 18:23 icetime, 53% on faceoffs
Marchenko 0+0, 1 shot, could not get his icetime...
Bodin's team had their first game of the reg season but he wasn't in the lineup.

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