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The Out of Town Thread part XLVI All talk from around the league here

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Old
09-13-2012, 08:37 AM
  #376
Maverik
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
All in all... We are the big losers in this. And we're watching carefully to see if theres hockey or not...

It's us that pay like dumbasses and wait for those freaking spoiled brat.

Players are played 500k and up to play freaking hockey!!!!!!!! I'm paid 30k a year to do somehting I freaking hate!!! Shouldn't it be the other way around ?

God damnit i'd be ready to pay to play in the NHL.

They're spoiled. They don't know what they have.

This pisses me off.
Yes, they are spoiled, but in the end, if they just roll over, it's the owners who will be pocketing even more money.

If you had the power to change your 30k salary into 60k, your telling me you wouldn't do it? It's the same for the players, but with much bigger numbers. The difference, is that since they are an elite workforce that cannot be replaced, they have the power to negotiate with their boss.

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Old
09-13-2012, 12:32 PM
  #377
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Maverik View Post
Yes, they are spoiled, but in the end, if they just roll over, it's the owners who will be pocketing even more money.

If you had the power to change your 30k salary into 60k, your telling me you wouldn't do it? It's the same for the players, but with much bigger numbers. The difference, is that since they are an elite workforce that cannot be replaced, they have the power to negotiate with their boss.
One big difference tho about the salary. If i dont perform i get fired and dont get anything. The player doesnt perform he sits on a guaranteed contract. Maybe a guy like Kaberle or Big Buff in Winnipeg should pay back their contracts for coming to camp completely overweight and out of shape.

The players want say in the business but dont want any of the risk. At some point they are going to kill the cash cow.

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Old
09-13-2012, 01:27 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Maverik View Post
Yes, they are spoiled, but in the end, if they just roll over, it's the owners who will be pocketing even more money.

If you had the power to change your 30k salary into 60k, your telling me you wouldn't do it? It's the same for the players, but with much bigger numbers. The difference, is that since they are an elite workforce that cannot be replaced, they have the power to negotiate with their boss.
They are spoiled, but they earned that right by being in the top 1% of hockey players in the world and doing something people are willing to pay big money to watch. It all goes back to the basic economic laws of supply and demand.

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Old
09-13-2012, 11:00 PM
  #379
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The NHL and NHLPA need to get some pointers on negotiating CBA's from the NFL.. Since 1992 the NFL as missed 0 games while the NHL as lost over 1600 games due to lockouts/strikes.

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09-14-2012, 12:32 AM
  #380
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I'm so pissed, right now. And I really wish Bettman, the players and the owner stopped talking about the fans, how great they are... When all they care about is their friggin bank account.

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09-14-2012, 12:55 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
The NHL and NHLPA need to get some pointers on negotiating CBA's from the NFL.. Since 1992 the NFL as missed 0 games while the NHL as lost over 1600 games due to lockouts/strikes.
The difference is the fact football players have no other options than waiting at home while an agreement is reached while best NHL players have some legit options in Europe where they can play in competitives leagues and get a very decent salary..

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09-14-2012, 01:38 AM
  #382
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One big difference tho about the salary. If i dont perform i get fired and dont get anything. The player doesnt perform he sits on a guaranteed contract. Maybe a guy like Kaberle or Big Buff in Winnipeg should pay back their contracts for coming to camp completely overweight and out of shape.

The players want say in the business but dont want any of the risk. At some point they are going to kill the cash cow.
actually the biggest difference is, you're not one of the best in the world in your field (neither am I).

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Old
09-14-2012, 02:48 AM
  #383
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Bettman, just kill your darlings and cut your losses.
Why should emplyees in healthy markets take a pay cut because you've got some rotten branches up your tree?

Bad business' deserves to go belly-up, or be saved by their owners, not the employees.
If the core business, ie NHL, was losing money, sure, but that's not the case, now is it?

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Old
09-14-2012, 03:49 AM
  #384
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Bettman, just kill your darlings and cut your losses.
Why should emplyees in healthy markets take a pay cut because you've got some rotten branches up your tree?

Bad business' deserves to go belly-up, or be saved by their owners, not the employees.
If the core business, ie NHL, was losing money, sure, but that's not the case, now is it?
They're guaranteed contracts though. No such thing as getting fired. Not to mention getting fired from a multi-million salary.

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Old
09-14-2012, 04:59 AM
  #385
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They're guaranteed contracts though. No such thing as getting fired. Not to mention getting fired from a multi-million salary.
They are indeed, signed by the owners as well.
And that's the point! Dont sign players to contract you cant afford, dont spend more money than you make, economics 101.

A few teams are losing money, NHL is not. Those teams are the problem, the players are not.
Last time, the owner got their hard cap, 24% roll back on salaries and revenue sharing. I don't see why the players should foot the bill once more because a few branches are losing money?
That said, 50-50 seems reasonable, fair and easy to grasp.

The salary itself is irrelevent, you and I may take exception to it because they make millions doing something we'd love to do for free. But that is besides the point, really. With all due respect to the owners, whoever they are, I'd rather see Price, Subban, Pacioretty getting rich, rather than the Molsons getting richer.

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Old
09-14-2012, 05:30 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
actually the biggest difference is, you're not one of the best in the world in your field (neither am I).
that has zero barring whether its right to sign a contract and not live up to it and come into camps out of shape or completely lacking interest in playing. The players have no problem ignoring things like this when they want their guaranteed share of the pie.

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Old
09-14-2012, 07:29 AM
  #387
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Lol owners ftw.

Some are upset that businessmen are doing business? They didn't get rich by not caring about the financials.

The players however have been acting humble but once they are at the table, these modest guys suddenly care about the bottom dollar too. Actually, correction, they don't. They care about what's a few lines before: revenue, not profit.

What a stupid system, it should technically be 50/50 on profits, not revenues. Obviously it's harder than it looks but it's likely fairest system if no one cheats it.

Also NHL offered to do this a year ago. How can anyone side with the players who decided to wait and are now complaining? Wtf. Wasn't this CBA already extended a year by players? No urgency whatsoever.

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Old
09-14-2012, 07:31 AM
  #388
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They are indeed, signed by the owners as well.
And that's the point! Dont sign players to contract you cant afford, dont spend more money than you make, economics 101.

A few teams are losing money, NHL is not. Those teams are the problem, the players are not.
Last time, the owner got their hard cap, 24% roll back on salaries and revenue sharing. I don't see why the players should foot the bill once more because a few branches are losing money?
That said, 50-50 seems reasonable, fair and easy to grasp.

The salary itself is irrelevent, you and I may take exception to it because they make millions doing something we'd love to do for free. But that is besides the point, really. With all due respect to the owners, whoever they are, I'd rather see Price, Subban, Pacioretty getting rich, rather than the Molsons getting richer.
The players didn't really take a hit with the cap, I think the average salary is up from the pre-cap days.

I think a reasonable compromise on both sides is...players salaries around 50%(19 or 51 is fine)...shorter deals(cuts on the front loading which is inflationary and hurts small markets)...owners substatially increase revenue sharing from top 10 to bottom 10 teams(100-150 mil changing hands).

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Old
09-14-2012, 08:39 AM
  #389
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In reality, we have the power.

But we're all too dumb to do something. Much like in politics.

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Old
09-14-2012, 09:07 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
In reality, we have the power.

But we're all too dumb to do something. Much like in politics.
Sadly I think in politics we exercise far more power. Politicians pander to voters against serious consequences (i.e. losing). I don't see any fear in the eyes of the players or owners on our behalf.

You're right that if we were serious about it, we could have power. We're fans though. We're addicted. It's like a crackhead boycotting his dealer for several years (the only dealer) because he was out of product. They're right. They know we'll come back. At least enough of us to sustain their business. I'm speaking for the strong markets.

The small markets -- they have the MOST power, but by virtue of the fact they by definition don't care as much...well, they'll be just as empty as before. I feel worst for the diehard fans there. No. No, I feel worst for us. I needs me some Habs!

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Old
09-14-2012, 09:19 AM
  #391
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Andrei Kostitsyn signs in KHL
http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/347890.html

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Old
09-14-2012, 10:38 AM
  #392
GoHomez
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Lol owners ftw.

Some are upset that businessmen are doing business? They didn't get rich by not caring about the financials.

The players however have been acting humble but once they are at the table, these modest guys suddenly care about the bottom dollar too. Actually, correction, they don't. They care about what's a few lines before: revenue, not profit.

What a stupid system, it should technically be 50/50 on profits, not revenues. Obviously it's harder than it looks but it's likely fairest system if no one cheats it.

Also NHL offered to do this a year ago. How can anyone side with the players who decided to wait and are now complaining? Wtf. Wasn't this CBA already extended a year by players? No urgency whatsoever.
So one week NHL approves three contracts with a total worth of 306 Millions, and a few weeks later we are to believe that NHL is in such a bad financial state they rather close shop than honour signed contracts?
Some businessmen, huh?!
Lol WTF indeed!

The only reason we have this conversation is because the owner need help to protect them from themselves, and NHL has decided it wants to run franchises in non-profitable locations.

And yes, a lot of the contracts signed include ridiculous money, but should the players turn them down for some "greater good"? Would you!?
Give me a break.

NHLPA had an option to extend the current CBA over 2011-2012 which they did, why shouldnt they?
On the other hand, the players has offered to keep on playing under the current CBA until a new one is signed, which the owners of course nixed.
Truth is, they are in the same boat and they both refuse to row.

Sharing profit?
Define Profit then.
Doesn't take much of an accountant to make sure no team in the entire NHL make no profit at all from here to eternity.
What's there to share then?

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Old
09-14-2012, 10:41 AM
  #393
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We so could have used him.

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Old
09-14-2012, 10:44 AM
  #394
uiCk
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We so could have used him.
but..



can he fight?

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Old
09-14-2012, 10:50 AM
  #395
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Bummer .. Expected though.

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09-14-2012, 01:24 PM
  #396
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I can't believe that the second coming of Maurice Richard can't find a job in the NHL.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:43 PM
  #397
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Seeing some people being so hard on a guy that any team could use is rather...pathetic

Akost's strong point is NOT communication or confidence...

What does our coaches do to a 20+ goal scoring sniper?

- Rotate him constantly on different lines
- Make him stand in front of the net instead of being a shooter on the PP
- Doghouse his ass constantly instead of communicating
- Expectations from fans are retarded and media blows things out of the water

all this equals a big body 20 goal scoring, 50+ point winger who can hit and be relatively defensively responsible become well not what we expected...guess why?

Because we didn't use him properly and management and coaching didn't maximize his assets in many ways.........

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:49 PM
  #398
Et le But
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Ever think it's possible that Andrei Kostitsyn signed with the KHL as much for financial security, especially since there probably won't be an NHL season this year, as much as anything else?

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:52 PM
  #399
sheed36
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Ever think it's possible that Andrei Kostitsyn signed with the KHL as much for financial security, especially since there probably won't be an NHL season this year, as much as anything else?
That's what I was thinking..

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:58 PM
  #400
uiCk
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Ever think it's possible that Andrei Kostitsyn signed with the KHL as much for financial security, especially since there probably won't be an NHL season this year, as much as anything else?
That for sure. and i have a feeling teams were not offering him any great contracts anyways.
and IMO i doubt he's on par with the NA culture.

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