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Chicago-Montreal-Philadelphia (3 way)

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Old
09-13-2012, 09:26 AM
  #51
coldsteelonice84
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Plekanec
Leighton
Hovinen


Leddy
Couturier
Morin
Flyers 3rd


Subban
Emery
Hawks 4th

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Old
09-13-2012, 09:35 AM
  #52
danyhabsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post

Plekanec
Leighton
Hovinen


Leddy
Couturier
Morin
Flyers 3rd


Subban
Emery
Hawks 4th
I think you should make a trade proposal with Chicago and Mtl only.

We arent trading Subban, especially in the Eastern conference.

Plekanec + for Leddy Kruger McNeil or Saad(I dont think TT is available)

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Old
09-13-2012, 09:42 AM
  #53
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In terms of value to an organization, Subban > Couturier > Plekanec > Leddy. I don't see a trade among these teams happening.

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Old
09-13-2012, 01:34 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
I think you should make a trade proposal with Chicago and Mtl only.

We arent trading Subban, especially in the Eastern conference.

Plekanec + for Leddy Kruger McNeil or Saad(I dont think TT is available)
Is that plus Subban? Because if it's not, I don't see how any rational fan can think Chicago would part with that many quality prospects/young players. You're dreaming if you think Plekanec and a pick gets you anything close to that. Nevermind the fact that Brandon Saad, along with Teuvo Teravainen, is not available for trade unless it's for an impactful young player.

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Old
09-13-2012, 01:49 PM
  #55
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Remove montreal from this deal, thanks.

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Old
09-13-2012, 02:01 PM
  #56
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As an unbiased observer, I don't see this as that bad for MTL. If Couts came in and replaced Pleks and played his minutes this year you'd probably get the same or similar production at both ends of the ice, but out of someone not at their ceiling yet and is way younger. I understand PK brings much more physicality, but Leddy instead back there probably gives somewhat comparable offense and still young. Throw in a couple extra pieces and this is a good deal.

I think the problem is that MTL fans have some of the thickest homer goggles on in all of hockey when they watch PK play. He's good young d-man who is pretty good at both ends of the ice and hits hard, but he's not as good as they seem to advertise. Does he not remind you of a young Dion Phaneuf? Good offense, decent defense, plays tough, good for highlight reel hits, etc. I think Phaneuf is a very good d-man, but he's not some sort of hockey god that PK is made out to be.

The Philly fans are almost as bad with Couts, and Chicago fans with Saad. I guess every fanbase has them, but having all three mentioned in the same thread is a recipe for disaster.

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Old
09-13-2012, 02:07 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handyj View Post
As an unbiased observer, I don't see this as that bad for MTL. If Couts came in and replaced Pleks and played his minutes this year you'd probably get the same or similar production at both ends of the ice, but out of someone not at their ceiling yet and is way younger. I understand PK brings much more physicality, but Leddy instead back there probably gives somewhat comparable offense and still young. Throw in a couple extra pieces and this is a good deal.

I think the problem is that MTL fans have some of the thickest homer goggles on in all of hockey when they watch PK play. He's good young d-man who is pretty good at both ends of the ice and hits hard, but he's not as good as they seem to advertise. Does he not remind you of a young Dion Phaneuf? Good offense, decent defense, plays tough, good for highlight reel hits, etc. I think Phaneuf is a very good d-man, but he's not some sort of hockey god that PK is made out to be.

The Philly fans are almost as bad with Couts, and Chicago fans with Saad. I guess every fanbase has them, but having all three mentioned in the same thread is a recipe for disaster.
You expect Couturier to hit 60ish points as soon as next year? In the future, it's entirely possible and even likely, but not next year, no way. I understand habs winning this deal.

What I don't understand is how Subban for Leddy can be considered even remotely good for the habs. It's terrible. No disrespect to Leddy but habs trade a fan favourite, our best D for a guy who isn't close to his all around skill?

Call it homer glasses or whatever but notice habs fans aren't saying "Okay, we'll trade you subban and you give us X player". This isn't a case of "we expect more and overvalue what he should get in return", it's a call of "he's not available". I happen to consider the scenarios very different. We aren't projecting a value of subban to other fanbases and suggesting they pay up. We're saying, let's not even talk about it, if subban sucks to other people, cool, we like him, we want no trouble, let us just keep him, go seek another 'good' d-man. Everyone's happy.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:07 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post

Plekanec
Leighton
Hovinen


Leddy
Couturier
Morin
Flyers 3rd


Subban
Emery
Hawks 4th
Looks like an NHL 13 trade if 3 way trades were possible. From the Flyers point of view, Couturier is not being traded. I don't think the Flyers take Emery back for a second attempt either and as for the 4th round pick, well Homer hates draft picks. If the Hawks want Leighton they can have him for free. I'm sure most Flyers fans won't mind. Maybe him and Kane can be good friends. If this deal were to actually happen then I think Montreal wins.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:16 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianRocket10 View Post
Looks like an NHL 13 trade if 3 way trades were possible. From the Flyers point of view, Couturier is not being traded. I don't think the Flyers take Emery back for a second attempt either and as for the 4th round pick, well Homer hates draft picks. If the Hawks want Leighton they can have him for free. I'm sure most Flyers fans won't mind. Maybe him and Kane can be good friends. If this deal were to actually happen then I think Montreal wins.
i agree completely and as a flyers fan i'd much rather have leddy than pk due to him being younger, pk's attitude problems, and well quite frankly not many flyers fans can stand pk haha

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:16 AM
  #60
LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianRocket10 View Post
Looks like an NHL 13 trade if 3 way trades were possible. From the Flyers point of view, Couturier is not being traded. I don't think the Flyers take Emery back for a second attempt either and as for the 4th round pick, well Homer hates draft picks. If the Hawks want Leighton they can have him for free. I'm sure most Flyers fans won't mind. Maybe him and Kane can be good friends. If this deal were to actually happen then I think Montreal wins.
The deal you quoted is at best a fair deal for montreal.

Plekanec=Leddy, Morin
Subban=Couturier+3rd

Funny enough, I wouldn't do either of those trades individually. There's been a lot of talks on the trade board for Plekanec to chicago and it's usually TT+. Leddy is nice but we have other needs.

As for subban, even if it were couturier+2nd or couturier+2nd+3rd. We'll keep subban. It's not about value. He's a fit on the habs, he's untouchable. Just as Couturier is the philly, imagine same with subban if not more.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:17 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by hockeyguy View Post
i agree completely and as a flyers fan i'd much rather have leddy than pk due to him being younger, pk's attitude problems, and well quite frankly not many flyers fans can stand pk haha
I'd prefer if Montreal was removed from the deal then Everyone's happy.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:19 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianRocket10 View Post
Looks like an NHL 13 trade if 3 way trades were possible. From the Flyers point of view, Couturier is not being traded. I don't think the Flyers take Emery back for a second attempt either and as for the 4th round pick, well Homer hates draft picks. If the Hawks want Leighton they can have him for free. I'm sure most Flyers fans won't mind. Maybe him and Kane can be good friends. If this deal were to actually happen then I think Montreal wins.
No they don't. Not even close.

I can't see how they can win a deal where they lose the best asset (by far, IMO) as well as arguably the best player, or at the very least the most complete one.

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Old
09-14-2012, 05:55 AM
  #63
handyj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
You expect Couturier to hit 60ish points as soon as next year? In the future, it's entirely possible and even likely, but not next year, no way. I understand habs winning this deal.

What I don't understand is how Subban for Leddy can be considered even remotely good for the habs. It's terrible. No disrespect to Leddy but habs trade a fan favourite, our best D for a guy who isn't close to his all around skill?

Call it homer glasses or whatever but notice habs fans aren't saying "Okay, we'll trade you subban and you give us X player". This isn't a case of "we expect more and overvalue what he should get in return", it's a call of "he's not available". I happen to consider the scenarios very different. We aren't projecting a value of subban to other fanbases and suggesting they pay up. We're saying, let's not even talk about it, if subban sucks to other people, cool, we like him, we want no trouble, let us just keep him, go seek another 'good' d-man. Everyone's happy.
I hear what you're saying about PK as a Habs fan (and can sympathize as a Leafs fan with Gardiner being brought up in trade proposals left and right), I'm just viewing this all under the assumption that this would be happening if PK and the Habs couldn't reach a contract. I know that it's far too early for that to be the case, I'm just assuming this happens in a hypothetical situation where Montreal actually wants to/has to deal him. And I think in this type of scenario the return is good.

Based on the little I saw of Couturier last season and the fact that he played third line minutes, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say he could easily put up 50-60 points this season if he had top line minutes (vs 30ish as a rookie on 3rd line), which is the same production as Pleks put up. And if he could form any kind of chemistry with Patches then that would be a very dangerous young duo.

Finally, I know nobody in their right mind would trade PK for Leddy straight up. All I'm saying is that there is a price to pay to get back similar production now but ten years younger (Couts vs Pleks) and the dropoff from PK to Leddy isn't quite as steep as MTL fans want it to be. They both have good offensive skills and both have lots of potential to get even better. You lose some defensive skill and toughness but in my eyes that may not be that big of a price to pay for the youth upgrade up front. Pair him with Gorges and he'd probably flourish. And this is all not to mention there would probably be small pieces otherwise in the deal (Morin for example) that help MTL out further.

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Old
09-14-2012, 06:09 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post

Plekanec
Leighton
Hovinen


Leddy
Couturier
Morin
Flyers 3rd


Subban
Emery
Hawks 4th
This proposal gives the Habs a bit more to get them thinking, but it still seems to me CHI gets a bit too much value and the Habs could get a bit more. What if the Hawks kept Morin and Laughton went to MTL instead? I know MTL would have a glut of young centers with this deal but it does send them some extra value, they could give Laughton lots of development time, and in a few years down the road possibly have the ideal 1-2-3 punch with Couts, Gally, and Laughton and use the other center depth as trade bait for scoring wingers.

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Old
09-14-2012, 09:52 AM
  #65
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i was about to say habs make out like bandit then i notice subban's name under the philly ....no way habs does those moves

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:01 AM
  #66
coldsteelonice84
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Originally Posted by handyj View Post
This proposal gives the Habs a bit more to get them thinking, but it still seems to me CHI gets a bit too much value and the Habs could get a bit more. What if the Hawks kept Morin and Laughton went to MTL instead? I know MTL would have a glut of young centers with this deal but it does send them some extra value, they could give Laughton lots of development time, and in a few years down the road possibly have the ideal 1-2-3 punch with Couts, Gally, and Laughton and use the other center depth as trade bait for scoring wingers.
It was Leighton, not Laughton. Just a swap of backup goalies and an OK goalie prospect because we put in one of our best prospects in Morin.

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:08 AM
  #67
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sorry but Subban stays in MTL

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:08 PM
  #68
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To The OP: this isn't really a 3-way deal, it is 2 separate trade premises:

1. Subban for Couturier

2. Plekanec for Leddy

There is an entire thread about Subban for Couts and Plekanec to the Hawks has been discussed many times. I don't see how combining them into a single thread will yield anything new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
The Habs are going to have to go through...

Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Rangers
Bruins
Senators
Washington
Tampa
Florida
Carolina


...to get to the playoffs next year.
It will be an uphill battle for the Habs to make the playoffs, no doubt about it, but with the parity in the East, the bolded teams are no sure thing either.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:19 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
Plekanec + for Leddy Kruger McNeil or Saad(I dont think TT is available)
Leddy and Saad alone is pushing it. I'd say Saad, Morin and a pick is the highest Chicago goes for Plekanec, which frankly is a damn good deal.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:21 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
So, let me get this straight, Montreal gives up Pleks and Subban and get back Leddy and Couturier?

Let's do some comparisons:

Plekanec>Couturier now. Likely Plekanec<Couturier in the future.
Subban>>Leddy now. Subban>>Leddy future.
Pleks is better than Leddy and Subban is better than Couturier.

Montreal gives up the 2 best players and doesn't even get quantity. A truly, truly brutal proposal for Montreal. Obvious why Chicago does it.
Agreed. I like the players Montreal gets, but the Habs should be getting at least a 1st round pick out of this, if not another young player and a pick.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:03 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Leddy and Saad alone is pushing it. I'd say Saad, Morin and a pick is the highest Chicago goes for Plekanec, which frankly is a damn good deal.
No it's not.

Plekanec is god damn usefull and would put Chicago over the top for 2-3-4 years.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:10 PM
  #72
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No it's not.

Plekanec is god damn usefull and would put Chicago over the top for 2-3-4 years.
Yes, he would. As long as he doesn't cost too much.

As it stands, that deal already has our best prospect, an excellent young defenseman, and a high pick.

If we go much higher, then the costs will outweigh the gains.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:11 PM
  #73
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The original proposal has no exchange between Hawks and Flyers at all, it is not a 3way trade so much as a free for all, in which everyone gets to give it to Montreal without lube in indivudual trades.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:21 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
All things considered(including the fact that Subban's cap hit will be ~$4M higher than Couturier's), I wouldn't trade Couts for Subban.
such posts make me cry

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:30 PM
  #75
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I'd love for a Hawks fan to justify how they get Plekanec for Leddy.

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