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Stars sign Lehtonen to extension (5 years/29.5 M)

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:10 AM
  #51
Colorado Avalanche
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
That seems like too much commitment for a goalie with his injury history.
ding ding. bit risky imo.

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:17 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Now I'm very confused by the Jack Campbell pick.

It's somewhat like if the Devils drafted Al Montoya-lite goalie high in the 1st round when they have a Brodeur in his prime.
This isn't the NFL, you don't draft based on short term needs. Stars scouting staff evaluated Campbell as the only player left with "franchise potential". As for Lehtonen, you don't let your MVP go. In 4 years you could see a situation similar to LA and Vancouver, I'll take that trade chip whenever I can get it.

As for the injury concerns, I have none. When he came to Dallas he was "lazy and lacked a good work ethic", since then he has improved his conditioning to the point where Stars goalie coach called him the hardest worker he's ever met. I see a direct correlation between health and physical conditioning.

Great contract.

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:18 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
I'm not sure how it is in other leagues, but I've heard that unsigned players, like these RFAs, can't get out clauses from the KHL. There's a decent chance other big name leagues will be doing the same. Maybe signing Kari today means he can go to SM-Liiga for the lockout and still get an out clause. I think that'd be a pretty decent incentive for both the team and the player to get a deal done now.
That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that.

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Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
It's the definition of collusion.
Since this is HF, I guess I will actually have to ask you to explain why you think that.

In most debates, it's implict that you explain your point of view, but here goes... "why is that the definition of collusion?" I agree that it would be concerted effort by the owners to accomplish a collective goal, but I fail to see how it is illegal.

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09-14-2012, 11:18 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by DG View Post
How is that collusion?

Are you actually trying to suggest that the owners are all sitting at 30 different tables at collective bargaining and that each owner is trying to negotiate terms that are to their own, personal liking? (though that would explain the lack of progress)

No. There are two sides, the Employer (NHL owners) and the employees (NHLPA). The owners are a team that work together and so are the players. If the owners decide not to sign anyone until a new CBA is reached, that is 100% within their discretion. There would be nothing stopping them from deciding as a team not to.

As someone pointed out, they are just signing players to play hockey. Well if an Employer (the league) decides they don't need any employees (players), particularly because there isn't going to be any business done (hockey played) this year, why would they enter in to contracts to pay them?

Yet, here we are...

If a company is going bankrupt, they don't hire more employees. If the owners are truly broke as they claim, and can't afford players under the current system, shouldn't they wait until there is a "fair" system before making new commitments to pay players?
Because they cant just agree to things by themselves, otherwise theyd just agree on their own league rules and put them in place. They can certainly bargain as one group, but they can't just implement agreements like that.

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:20 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
He's only 20 and has a lot of work to do. So he'll be an NHL backup at 23, 24, 25, then take over. Makes sense.
Or, they will have a great trading chip like LA with Quick and Bernier. There is no negative here.

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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
Because they cant just agree to things by themselves, otherwise theyd just agree on their own league rules and put them in place. They can certainly bargain as one group, but they can't just implement agreements like that.
I'm not suggesting they put 30 signatures on a page and then hold a press conference. Just informally decide not to do it. Extremely simple.

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:26 AM
  #56
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Now I'm very confused by the Jack Campbell pick.
Jimmy Howard didn't become a starter until he was 25. Campbell's only 20 right now, and probably needs 2 full seasons in the AHL. Goalies take a while to develop.

Worst case scenario is Campbell knocks down the door in 2016 or 2017 and forces us to trade Kari for a great return. Not a bad problem to have. What would have been stupid is if the Stars didn't sign their proven goalie for the term he demanded just because they might have a good goalie in 3-4 years ready to take over.

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:54 AM
  #57
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Too many years and a slight overpayment.

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:58 AM
  #58
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That is a lot to me.... but then again look how well they play when Lehtonen is fully healthy.

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:59 AM
  #59
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I like Kari but that's a fat pay day. For a hit like that I wouldn't have given more than 3 years.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:17 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
Since this is HF, I guess I will actually have to ask you to explain why you think that.

In most debates, it's implict that you explain your point of view, but here goes... "why is that the definition of collusion?" I agree that it would be concerted effort by the owners to accomplish a collective goal, but I fail to see how it is illegal.
It's illegal because it's collusion. Collusion is not allowed. I didn't think I'd have to explain this.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:19 PM
  #61
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dont worry dallas fans you can take 17% off of that number.

seriously though, really important signing for this organization. If he wasnt signed before midnight, there was a serious possibility he becomes a UFA on july 1st without dallas having the chance to extend him.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:24 PM
  #62
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if Kari played for a bigger market or in front of a blueline which could actually defend, nobody would've been surprised about the money or lenght. Kari has been among the most important players, if not the most important player for the Stars since arriving. His injury problems are of no issue during his time in Dallas, and his consistency and stats have been stellar, especially considering the plethora of incapable defenders in front of him (a non playoff team). I don't see why the team he is playing for, would pay him anything less than he is receiving with this contract.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:32 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
Jimmy Howard didn't become a starter until he was 25. Campbell's only 20 right now, and probably needs 2 full seasons in the AHL. Goalies take a while to develop.

Worst case scenario is Campbell knocks down the door in 2016 or 2017 and forces us to trade Kari for a great return. Not a bad problem to have. What would have been stupid is if the Stars didn't sign their proven goalie for the term he demanded just because they might have a good goalie in 3-4 years ready to take over.
add the top goalie prospects right now (THN futurewatch 2012):

Jacob Markstrom - 22yo, needs one more season probably, and the panthers are looking at luongo.

Robin Lehner - 21yo, needs at least one more season, sens have a starter locked up for another three and a young backup as well.

Matt Hackett - 22yo, needs one more season probably.

and #4 is Jack Campbell, the 20yo. Give him at least two more years in the AHL, and then if he's ready, deal with the problem then.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:34 PM
  #64
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Pretty bad deal for Dallas. Almost 6MM for one solid year. Hopefully it works out.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:46 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
It's illegal because it's collusion. Collusion is not allowed. I didn't think I'd have to explain this.


It's collusion because it's collusion and it's illegal because it's illegal.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:46 PM
  #66
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Kari couldn't stay healthy in Atlanta cause he wasn't training enough to be a NHLer. He got second opportunity with Dallas and he woke up in the training department. Very underrated goalie. I'm sure Stars HQ knows more than some HFBoarders here.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:52 PM
  #67
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Way too much money and term.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:09 PM
  #68
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It's kinda funny. Most people saying too much money/term are Eastern Conference fans, while Western Conference fans are saying good deal.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:15 PM
  #69
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Pretty decent signing for the Stars, hope he stays healthy!

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:30 PM
  #70
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So the owners ***** about contract lengths, ask for 5 years in their offers. Then sign guys for 6-7 year deals 24 hours before the lockout?

And you are losing money?

Also, everyone chirps Bryz for getting 5.6 a year. He has same gp, more wins, fewer loses, more shutouts then Lehtonen, yet this is a good deal for a goalie who is oft injured?

HF boards for yea.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:36 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by KovalSNIPE View Post
What about Campbell? He'll be ready before this contract is up...
That was my first thought.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:40 PM
  #72
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Almost 6 mil per for a 28 year old goalie with an injury history, 2 playoff games, and only one season where he scratched the top 10 in the major statistical categories?

Yeesh.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:48 PM
  #73
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To put things into perspective, Lundqvist's cap hit is $6.875.

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Old
09-14-2012, 02:00 PM
  #74
DG
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
To put things into perspective, Lundqvist's cap hit is $6.875.
... which he signed 4 years ago. With cap inflation, his cap hit today would be ~8.25M.

That said, I do think that is an oversimplification because the market for goalies has cooled since then...

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Old
09-14-2012, 02:11 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
So the owners ***** about contract lengths, ask for 5 years in their offers. Then sign guys for 6-7 year deals 24 hours before the lockout?

And you are losing money?

Also, everyone chirps Bryz for getting 5.6 a year. He has same gp, more wins, fewer loses, more shutouts then Lehtonen, yet this is a good deal for a goalie who is oft injured?

HF boards for yea.
Yes because you can compare stats in a vacuum without bringing team composition differences into the equation.

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