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09-14-2012, 10:53 AM
  #1
Gentle Ben Kenobi
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The lockout thread

Here is to hoping for a last minute miracle and we can all laugh at this thread tomorrow

If not...












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09-14-2012, 10:55 AM
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09-14-2012, 12:35 PM
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Gentle Ben Kenobi
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That looks a lot like Bill Daly. Nice find!

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09-14-2012, 12:42 PM
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Old
09-14-2012, 12:48 PM
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I didn't renew my tickets after they raised prices so drastically. And now after theyve won, they're not getting me to buy a 10 game pack or any merchandise either. **** these guys. UCLA is going to get all if ny money.

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09-14-2012, 12:55 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
I didn't renew my tickets after they raised prices so drastically. And now after theyve won, they're not getting me to buy a 10 game pack or any merchandise either. **** these guys. UCLA is going to get all if ny money.
We need to hit up a game this year.
We need to do it right though. We need to do work. Tailgating, kegs, and balloon animals.

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09-14-2012, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
We need to hit up a game this year.
We need to do it right though. We need to do work. Tailgating, kegs, and balloon animals.
No strippers making the balloon animals or midgets serving you drinks? I thought you said do it right...

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09-14-2012, 01:35 PM
  #8
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I fault the players. I'm not smart enough to understand all the moving parts but I have little sympathy for grown men playing a game and getting paid upwards of $1m that I love to play and have to PAY for the priviledge to play. When I don't get a raise at work or if I was going to be laid off because the company is going under, I have ZERO recourse. None at all.

The way I understand it, the difference in percentages between the owners and players offers would be wiped out if a season is lost. Seems like they are cutting off their nose to spite their face. But again, what do I know? BTW.. the owners OWN the friggin' businesses. This isn't auto workers or construction workers being taken advantage of with unfair labor practices.

Also, when the baseball strike happened years ago, why were replacement players allowed to be used? Can the NHL do that? I'd absolutely still watch if they did. Hell, I mighte even try out to be the Kings next Westgarth (punching bag). I think i'd be pretty good at getting my ass kicked nightly.

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09-14-2012, 01:36 PM
  #9
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I just got locked out of my ice-cream truck and Frosty the Snowman is on loop.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:49 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I fault the players. I'm not smart enough to understand all the moving parts but I have little sympathy for grown men playing a game and getting paid upwards of $1m that I love to play and have to PAY for the priviledge to play. When I don't get a raise at work or if I was going to be laid off because the company is going under, I have ZERO recourse. None at all.

The way I understand it, the difference in percentages between the owners and players offers would be wiped out if a season is lost. Seems like they are cutting off their nose to spite their face. But again, what do I know? BTW.. the owners OWN the friggin' businesses. This isn't auto workers or construction workers being taken advantage of with unfair labor practices.

Also, when the baseball strike happened years ago, why were replacement players allowed to be used? Can the NHL do that? I'd absolutely still watch if they did. Hell, I mighte even try out to be the Kings next Westgarth (punching bag). I think i'd be pretty good at getting my ass kicked nightly.
Pretty much this. Don't know why it seems so many people are siding with the players...

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09-14-2012, 02:07 PM
  #11
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Pretty much this. Don't know why it seems so many people are siding with the players...
I don't see why people are siding with EITHER side. Honestly, I know a lot of people get all upset about how much pro atheletes make, but they make what they can earn, same as every other employee in the Western world does...what the market decides they can make. And the owners are trying to keep their costs low since they are running a business, like every other business owner.

I just want a deal to be done that is fair, that will support the teams while making sure the players aren't being taken advantage of.

Most importantly, I want to watch some ******* NHL hockey!

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09-14-2012, 02:12 PM
  #12
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I don't see any reason to take sides either. The owners agreed to pay the players the money defined in their contracts and the players don't want to back down from getting it. Okay. The owners don't want to continue on under a system where they're so prone to losing money. Okay. Can see both perspectives here.

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09-14-2012, 02:25 PM
  #13
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is ther gonna be a lockout every CBA........

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09-14-2012, 02:33 PM
  #14
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Quote:
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I just got locked out of my ice-cream truck and Frosty the Snowman is on loop.
That is a sign that The NHL is taking it too far.....

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09-14-2012, 02:49 PM
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I don't support the owners, but at least it IS their money and their business that they're trying to maintain.

I TOTALLY oppose the players. We've got to be at the point where the players stand to lose more money by playing hardball than if they were to actually strike a deal that involved certain concessions on their part. It reminds me of the mobsters needing to get rid of Batman, so they unleash the Joker, only they don't realize how far he might take things. Welcome to the party, Mr. Fehr.

This underlying obsession of scoring a "win" at the table in order to make up for apparent wrongs done to them in 04/05 ignores a couple things entirely. They've actually done quite tidily under this CBA, but not enough to put away the "mistreated" card. Even more frustrating, they don't seem to take into account the current financial mess the NHL is in. The options seem to be taking a paycut or risk having the job vanish. Which word don't they understand?

The players are happily drooling away in a broken playpen right now, and even though its not really their fault, they need to chip in to help fix it. It won't change the world, but concessions by the NHLPA (****, not even concessions but a willingness to meet somewhere in the middle) is probably the quickest and most obvious of many olive branches needed to save the season and fix the system.

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Old
09-14-2012, 02:50 PM
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is ther gonna be a lockout every CBA........
It sure seems that way.

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Old
09-14-2012, 02:59 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
I don't see any reason to take sides either. The owners agreed to pay the players the money defined in their contracts and the players don't want to back down from getting it. Okay. The owners don't want to continue on under a system where they're so prone to losing money. Okay. Can see both perspectives here.

Except the players were never completely guaranteed to make the dollars in their contracts under the current CBA. Isn't there money in escrow each season and if the NHL doesn't make at least 5% more in revenue (since the NHLPA uses the 5% inflator every season) they lose some of that escrow?

$1.87 billion is only owed if the NHL grows by 5+% and it grows the next season via the increase in salary cap.

Also, plenty of players have taken advantage of the loop hole in retirement contracts to make more money sooner and retire before the contract ends. Didn’t these same players enter into their contracts in bad faith? Or are they all going to play until they are 40+?

I don't know why anyone would side with the players since any increase in salary is going to be offset by higher ticket prices. Ticket prices will always increase with increased demand, but the sky rocketing salary costs push ticket prices even higher. I don't believe for a second that ticket prices will drop with a decrease in player's contracts, but they would rise faster without it.

Both are at fault, but the owners of a business get to set the rules more than the employees and not very many business can operate with 57% of revenue going to salaries. The NHLPA should be fighting for a 10+ year CBA using the current CBA as a base and getting closer to a 50/50 split. Players will always make out better in the long term and they wouldn't be so worried about losing again in 6 years. Make it a 12 year CBA and grow the sport together.

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Old
09-14-2012, 03:06 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I don't see why people are siding with EITHER side. Honestly, I know a lot of people get all upset about how much pro atheletes make, but they make what they can earn, same as every other employee in the Western world does...what the market decides they can make. And the owners are trying to keep their costs low since they are running a business, like every other business owner.

I just want a deal to be done that is fair, that will support the teams while making sure the players aren't being taken advantage of.

Most importantly, I want to watch some ******* NHL hockey!
$2.5m average salary helps me lean toward the owners - waaaay to the owners.

So if there's a rollback, avg salary goes DOWN to what, $2m or heaven forbid, 1.8??

And I'm not "upset about how much pro atheletes make," it's just that can't the NHLPA see the forest thru the trees here? The NHL is such a distant 4th sports league, their revenues are miniscule compared to NFL, MLB and NBA. Yet the NHLPA wants 57% when the RICH leagues pay their atletes quite a bit less...

I would gladly take the players side if I saw "some great salary and/or benefits injustice" occuring here, but I don't see it.

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09-14-2012, 03:11 PM
  #19
Buddy The Elf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
I don't see any reason to take sides either. The owners agreed to pay the players the money defined in their contracts and the players don't want to back down from getting it. Okay. The owners don't want to continue on under a system where they're so prone to losing money. Okay. Can see both perspectives here.
I see both perspectives and the sad truth is the owners have the power. They have the control over the money the players want. The players can hold out for 20 years and make nothing. Just like I have no power over my employer. If I don't like what I get paid, I can go elsewhere. That is my only recourse. The players are going to choose to sit out and/or play in Europe for much less and in the process potentially lose more money than they 'd earn if they just signed the owners deal. Now I'm not saying the players should just take what they are being fed but the bottom line is the little power they have is about to be expended in the next 24 hours. The league can't continue the way it is or teams are going to go out of business and there will be less jobs for players. Certainly the owners are partly to blame for that but it isn't fair that a small market team is forced to pay salaries to players that they can't recoup in revenue. That is a failed business proposition and until that is addressed, this isn't going anywhere. Both sides should buck up but unfortunately the players are the ones more in need of the owners when in fact 30% of league (at least what we are told) is losing money.

I work for a a Fortune 200 company. Our expenses which include salaries and every piece of paper or pen we use are at 30% to share some perspective. I don't have the benefit of a union to demand more for me. I have the free market which allows me to go somewhere else that is following a similar blue print more than likely. Now that may be apples and oranges but I can guarantee you my company could stand to pay employees 10% more a year with no problem but they don't because they don't have to. I also work for a publicly traded company but regardless, I'm just trying to point out the disparity.

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09-14-2012, 03:15 PM
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The way I see it you could replace Bettman and all the owners and the NHL would look exactly the same. If you replaced the players it wouldn't be half the product it is right now.

I've said it in jest before but I think if you could include a clause in the new cba (assuming they ever agree to one) stating that both the NHLPA head and commissioner must both resign in the event of any further work stoppages. I think this would at least get them in a room together more than a few hours a week.

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09-14-2012, 03:21 PM
  #21
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Put this into perspective, AEG owns the Kings. They claim that they lose money on them every year which is very debatable. Lets say they actually do turn a profit on the Kings. With all of AEG's other business ventures and more specifically, the Staples/LA Live complex, they have zero need for the Kings to play. If the season is cancelled, I'd be willing to bet they can fill that arena with the same out amount of people at a BETTER rate of return than the Kings. Now, why on earth does AEG have an urgency to bowdown to the players demands? The Kings are an afterthought. And I'm not insulting AEG. They are in business to make money and the Kings are a drop in the bucket of their enterprise. This is just one franchise of 30 but I'm sure they are plenty of other examples that demonstrate that the owners have a lot less riding on this than the players do. They really should re-evaluate their position when you consider owners like AEG and extremes at the other end where teams are actually going to be better off by no playing because they will lose LESS money.

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09-14-2012, 03:40 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
$2.5m average salary helps me lean toward the owners - waaaay to the owners.

So if there's a rollback, avg salary goes DOWN to what, $2m or heaven forbid, 1.8??

And I'm not "upset about how much pro atheletes make," it's just that can't the NHLPA see the forest thru the trees here? The NHL is such a distant 4th sports league, their revenues are miniscule compared to NFL, MLB and NBA. Yet the NHLPA wants 57% when the RICH leagues pay their atletes quite a bit less...

I would gladly take the players side if I saw "some great salary and/or benefits injustice" occuring here, but I don't see it.
Miniscule? NFL 11B, MLB 7B, NBA 3.8B, NHL 3.3B. MLB plays twice as many games (since they can), so in reality all 3 of the sports other than NFL are on pretty damn level footing (per game). Baseball also has VASTLY higher travel/scouting/player development costs.

But regardless, I think everybody knows the NHL's percentage is going to fall. The players themselves have offered to take it back to 52% already. Both sides are at fault, both sides have good ideas, but right now they are refusing to even look at each other's solution.

The massive revenue disparity needs to be addressed. A solution similiar to Baseball's revenue sharing is a great idea...provided it is coupled with the salary cap and floor to avoid teams doing like what KC and TB did in baseball (pocket the revenue sharing rather than try to spend and be competitive). There are elements of both sides that need to be addressed.

But the real main point of my post was why we, as fans, do we need to take sides? We should be looking at it objectively and trying to see the best for everybody, including us. Neither side knows everything, is entirely honest or necessarily even wants what is ultimately best. But both have part of the picture. Hopefully we can see that, and eventually they will as well.

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Old
09-14-2012, 03:42 PM
  #23
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But that is just AEG. Every owner doesn't own their arena and most of the entertainment industry.

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09-14-2012, 03:48 PM
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09-14-2012, 03:59 PM
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Fehr almost ruined baseball. It's no surprise he's playing with the NHL now.

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