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In (Partial) Defense Of Scott Howson's Recent Trade History

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Old
09-14-2012, 06:00 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Carter played 39 games in Columbus, and maybe exerted some effort in 6 of them. Keep in mind that we went through the Nikolai Zherdev years and know what "floating" looks like...Carter was worse than that. Even his line changes were lazy.
I've watched carter in philly. To be honest, his stride when he skates is very effortless. He never showed any real emotion or physicality when he played and that sometimes get mistaken for floating.

To say whether or not he was floating is hard to say but his demeanor is very quite reserved and shy. And I think that reflects on the ice which hurts his perception.

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09-14-2012, 06:12 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
The second line, I think, is nonsensical and inaccurate. Goaltending alone did not destroy us last year. Carter was a poor fit and screwed up the locker room, Arniel was worse than hopeless at fixing it (he actually made the situation worse), and we suffered more and bigger blueline injuries than any other team in the NHL. Goaltending issues just added to the Perfect ****storm.
If you traded your 1st for Schneider you wouldn't have traded for Carter because you wouldn't have had your 1st any more. Voracek would still be on the team and would have contributed as much or more than Carter did.

Schneider put up a 0.937 save% last year (top 2 in the league) which wasn't a flash in the pan because he had put up a 0.929 the year before (top 3). Replace your goalies with Schiender and your goal difference would have been 88 goals better giving your team a +18 goal differential, tied for 5th in the West. No team with a positive goal differential made the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Bobrovsky, Oscar Dansk.
Sorry for my response if you are being sarcastic...

So a goalie that put up a 0.899 save% for the Flyers and a goalie who has never played in the NHL are good solutions? Bobrovski is actually a downgrade on Sanford.

Look how much money they were spending on forwards and defense! It made no sense for them to go into the season without a goalie they knew could do the job.

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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
A 2nd and two 4ths for Bobrovsky (who's a lot younger and has his prime years still to come) is a lot less than it likely would have taken to have picked up Luongo or Schneider.
I don't care how many prime years Bobrovski has left, his season last year was basically as bad as Mason's.

I'd rather go into next season with Luongo or Schneider in net. The 0.038 save% difference between Schneider and Barbrovski in similar roles on pretty level teams is worth 93 goals over a season. That difference is enough to move the worst team into the playoffs and the best team out of the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Predatorbill View Post
If we combine the first two trades (which essentially eliminates Jeff Carter from the equation). Voracek plus CBJ 2011 1rst and third for JJ and LA 2012 or 2013 1rst.

IMO that looks reasonable. What do you think?
It's not even close because CBJs 1st was 8th overall while LAK 1st was 30th overall (and was lottery protected I think).

----

Sometimes people make huge mistakes that should cost them their jobs. Especially when they go against conventional wisdom.

For CBJ - going without a good goalie and relying on Mason to bounce back should have cost Howson his job.


Last edited by Hammer Slammer: 09-14-2012 at 10:03 PM.
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Old
09-14-2012, 06:37 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I don't care how many prime years Bobrovski has left, his season last year was basically as bad as Mason's.

I'd rather go into next season with Luongo or Schneider in net. The 0.038 save% difference between Schneider and Barbrovski in similar roles on pretty level teams is worth 93 goals over a season. That difference is enough to move the worst team into the playoffs and the best team out of the playoffs.
I'm sure that Howson would rather have Luongo or Schneider. But I doubt very much that he'd want to have paid the asking price for either one of them. If we went months assuming that Howson's asking price for Rick Nash was astronomical, what do we say about Gillis' price on his goalies?

Your math is based on the assumption that both goalies would be starters for the majority of a season, which one (Bobrovsky) has done and which the other (Schneider) has not. Hockey isn't the only sport I follow; I've seen plenty of guys in limited action look great, then fall apart as soon as they have to take on a bigger role.

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09-14-2012, 06:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I've watched carter in philly. To be honest, his stride when he skates is very effortless. He never showed any real emotion or physicality when he played and that sometimes get mistaken for floating.

To say whether or not he was floating is hard to say but his demeanor is very quite reserved and shy. And I think that reflects on the ice which hurts his perception.
I personally spent years being annoyed by the idea of Rick Nash floating for the same reason; he's fairly tall and takes long strides, which make it look like he's gliding. I personally read almost nothing into the display of effort.

I also saw quite a bit of Carter in Philadelphia, and couldn't believe how disconnected he looked in Columbus. I was watching a game with the wife in early February, and he generated a scoring chance, backchecked all the way to his own goal line after a turnover, and ended up going right back up the ice and creating another scoring chance. I said, "If this SOB had played this season at even 50% of this effort level, things would be a lot different."

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09-14-2012, 06:53 PM
  #80
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1. His team was in last place
2. They will probably be in last place again
3. You don't get partial credit for making chicken salad out of chicken **** when you're te one choosing what ingredients to use

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09-14-2012, 08:01 PM
  #81
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Perhaps his acuity at trading is questionable, but the guy is most certainly horrific at draft selection.

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09-14-2012, 08:38 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Perhaps his acuity at trading is questionable, but the guy is most certainly horrific at draft selection.
I would disagree with this. I think for the most part he has traded well and improved Columbus's drafting from "horrific" by his predecessor to "average" or even slightly above average. Howson has had two notable draft busts; the flaming wreckage that is Nikita Filatov and second round pick Stefen Legein. He also seems to have drafted some real finds in later rounds like Cam Atkinson and David Savard, and it looks like Boone Jenner may be a second round steal.

While I have long wanted him replaced with a more competent GM, I disagree with your assessment.

I find Howson's hiring and firing decisions to be weak and unsupportable. He has also been unable to create a team identity, and execute on that. I believe those are the reasons his teams have been unsuccessful.

On the other hand, reading this thread would lead one to believe Howson's teams have finished in 30th place almost annually or at least in 15th place in the West. That simply isn't accurate. Last season's team was the first time one of Howson's CBJ teams finished in 30th place overall or 15th place in the Western Conference.


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09-14-2012, 08:43 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I'm sure that Howson would rather have Luongo or Schneider. But I doubt very much that he'd want to have paid the asking price for either one of them. If we went months assuming that Howson's asking price for Rick Nash was astronomical, what do we say about Gillis' price on his goalies?
Isn't the decision on where to put your resources the GMs #1 job?

He'd rather have Luongo or Schneider but didn't want to pay the price. As a result, his team sucked, he traded away assets that would have got you either goalie (one this year, and one last year), his two best players going into last season demanded trades, and the team on paper is no better than it was last season.

Seems like a good reason to fire a GM.

Also, to address the unquoted part of your post, Luongo is more proven than Bob or Schneider and is on the block this year. If I'm the owner of CBJ and my team has a terrible goaltending again this season, I fire the GM. Being competitive would make such a difference for the franchise and I think the owner knows it which is why they spent all that money last year (like 2k more in attendance on average per night).

For those discussing drafting, before he was GM wasn't Howson head scout?

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09-14-2012, 08:53 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Isn't the decision on where to put your resources the GMs #1 job?

He'd rather have Luongo or Schneider but didn't want to pay the price. As a result, his team sucked, he traded away assets that would have got you either goalie (one this year, and one last year), his two best players going into last season demanded trades, and the team on paper is no better than it was last season.

Seems like a good reason to fire a GM.
It's simply poor asset management to pay the price for either and as has been discussed ad infinitum, Luongo's contract is a real problem. There are other ways he could have addressed this weakness.

Quote:
Also, to address the unquoted part of your post, Luongo is more proven than Bob or Schneider and is on the block this year. If I'm the owner of CBJ and my team has a terrible goaltending again this season, I fire the GM. Being competitive would make such a difference for the franchise and I think the owner knows it which is why they spent all that money last year (like 2k more in attendance on average per night).
I would have fired him before this, but there are better ways to shore up the goaltending than overpaying for Schneider or taking on Luongo given his age and contract term.

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For those discussing drafting, before he was GM wasn't Howson head scout?
No, he was AGM of the Oilers and known as a capologist.

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09-14-2012, 09:11 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
More selective memory. He's also wildly inconsistent, lacks hockey IQ, has questionable compete level and his skill doesn't match his production.
But I think he's still a good player to have. Guys with bigger frames may also have higher adjustment period. I don't think the Rangers system was well suited for Anisimov. I can see some of his skill level on display on a more open CBJ system.

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He also lacks hockey IQ, has never figured out what kind of player he is and at 4.2M is overpaid for a 2nd to 3rd liner.
Agreed. But 4.2 isn't overpaid for Dubinsky when you consider the fact what plugs like Hudler and Brouwer are making. It's a fair contract in comparison to what's been given out in FA.

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The reason why he was dealt instead of Del Zotto is because he's pretty much average at everything across the board. Del Zotto is an above average offensive defenseman. I also question Erixon's compete level.
The reason he's dealt was because he didn't adapt in with the Rangers playing style and that they traded from a position of strength. I rate Erixon slightly higher than Miller, notch below Hagelin and Kreider prospect wise.

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For a team in full rebuild mode, they didn't get a top notch return. Both AA and Dubi as close to being dime a dozen players.
Dime a dozen as in guaranteed NHL talent for the next decade or so......?

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Old
09-14-2012, 09:51 PM
  #86
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what was carter doing?? seems like he was a HECK of a cancer!! really curious about that

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09-14-2012, 10:07 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Carter gets such a bad rap from what happened to CBJ and i never understood why.
Because you did not see how he conducted himself here. We know what a player with a long, effortless stride looks like - Rick Nash has up 'till quite recently played his entire career here.

Suggesting otherwise is borderline insulting; it's as good as saying that we lowly peons in Columbus don't know what lazy play looks like. We've seen this suggestion from Philly fans before - he's low key, he has a long stride that looks effortless, he's been falsely accused before, so clearly these Jackets fans don't know what they're talking about. Comments about his being regularly on a line with Nash are one of the easy warning signs - we tried having them on separate lines several times when things weren't quite "clicking" early on.

He wasn't supposed to be a cancer. He wasn't supposed to be a diva. We never thought that possible. We were prepared to assume the best of him - and in the early going, did so in spite of what we were seeing because we needed any kind of hope we could get. But he inarguably turned into both those things while he was here.

If you want to press the point, feel free, but please do one thing first: Watch how he played. Don't assume. Don't presume. Don't go by what you've known of him before. We know he's been falsely accused in the past, but we're really earnestly, deadly serious. Watch how the Columbus Blue Jackets hockey player wearing the "Carter" #7 sweater played hockey on a game-to-game basis. Every once in a while you'll recognize Jeff. Most of the time you may find yourself wondering who this guy is wearing #7 and pretending to be Jeff Carter.

But it's him. It really is him.

Watch, and you will understand.

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09-14-2012, 10:13 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Perhaps his acuity at trading is questionable, but the guy is most certainly horrific at draft selection.
I'd like to provide the following from an earlier post of mine that attempts to refute this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Howson's actually done a vastly better job with drafting... but his favorite type of player to pick is "anyone in the NCAA" followed closely by "anyone who'll develop for 3-4+ years", so some of the payoffs are only just now starting to show up. Heck, one of our nicer second-tier blueline prospects (Will Weber - CCHA best defensive defenseman and captain of the RedHawks) just now signed his first pro contract after spending his full five years of NCAA eligibility... and he was the second guy Howson ever drafted. And Atkinson (who we're all very high on) was drafted in the sixth round the year after that; he's been kicking ass and taking names at BC all this time.

A different case could be made for Howson getting too much flak for his drafting simply because the only name anyone ever remembers is Nikita Filatov.

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09-14-2012, 10:19 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I'd like to provide the following from an earlier post of mine that attempts to refute this:
Honestly what is your deal with Carter? He underperformed on a team that ended up being the 2nd worst in the NHL. I mean you can defend your GM all you want but it's not like Columbus ended up at the bottom of the NHL because of luck. I don't think you can disagree with the statement that Howson is a bottom-5 GM in the NHL. Maybe Carter's playing style wasn't a fit? What basis do you have to attack his character as stridently as you do?

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09-14-2012, 10:21 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by praisealfie11 View Post
what was carter doing?? seems like he was a HECK of a cancer!! really curious about that
We don't know precisely, beyond what could be seen on the ice. We have it on reasonably good authority that he did not want to be here - for reasons unknown, although one could presume that he simply never got over the shock of being traded - and we have also been led to believe that he made this very clear to everybody in the locker room, and that this had a chilling effect.

We've heard some stories (and even more supposition) of "you people all work for ME" attitudes and other such things that seem... rather incongruous as regards the Jeff Carter we thought we were getting. His play on the ice seems to reflect such attitudes, but that could be simple observational bias.

There have been accusations of malingering as regards the status of his ankle, but those may simply be the suggestions of the bitter. (Admittedly, that hasn't stopped me from repeating them now and again, which is... probably not entirely wise on my part.)

What is unquestionable, though, is that he gave little or no effort on the ice for the bulk of his time here. The only ways I can think to describe it are sadly rather unobjective, and I genuinely am pissed off at how he treated my team and my city so keep that in mind as I say this - but his on-ice play really did seem, to me, to be the ultimate conformation of that "you tools work for me" attitude. He didn't seem to care about protecting the puck, backchecking, or working it up the ice, it was all "get me the puck, because I'm Jeff ****ing Carter and watch this wrist shot, baby." That was the impression left behind. It doesn't match what I'd known of his personality from before he came here... but now I have difficulty thinking of him any other way.

I hate not having a more unbiased view, because I know he's been falsely accused of laziness for the same reasons Rick Nash gets that crap. But... it's like he abruptly decided that if he was going to be accused he might as well deserve it or something equally perverse. I can't fathom it... but I still unapologetically hate him for it, and for the consequences to my team.

Take that as you will.

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09-14-2012, 10:36 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by porknbeans420 View Post
Honestly what is your deal with Carter? He underperformed on a team that ended up being the 2nd worst in the NHL. I mean you can defend your GM all you want but it's not like Columbus ended up at the bottom of the NHL because of luck. I don't think you can disagree with the statement that Howson is a bottom-5 GM in the NHL. Maybe Carter's playing style wasn't a fit? What basis do you have to attack his character as stridently as you do?
Columbus fans have a chip on their shoulder cause of LeBron. That's all.

Every time it comes up CBJ people start imploring you to "just watch the games! carter was so lazy!"

If and when you do watch the games you see a guy who scored two hat tricks, broke his ankle blocking shots, and separated his shoulder in a physical game against Anaheim.

The Blue Jackets were 9 points from second to last place and 40 points from a playoff spot. 2011 was their worst calendar year they've ever had and at one point hadn't had back to back regulation wins in something like 40 games. Oh yeah, and they were spending to the cap.

But let's all blame Jeff Carter! He should WANT to be on this team!

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09-14-2012, 11:33 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Generally View Post
Columbus fans have a chip on their shoulder cause of LeBron. That's all.

Every time it comes up CBJ people start imploring you to "just watch the games! carter was so lazy!"

If and when you do watch the games you see a guy who scored two hat tricks, broke his ankle blocking shots, and separated his shoulder in a physical game against Anaheim.

The Blue Jackets were 9 points from second to last place and 40 points from a playoff spot. 2011 was their worst calendar year they've ever had and at one point hadn't had back to back regulation wins in something like 40 games. Oh yeah, and they were spending to the cap.

But let's all blame Jeff Carter! He should WANT to be on this team!
1. Not a Cavs fan, didn't bother me one bit.
2. Did you watch any of the games?
3. He did score two hat tricks. Nobody said he never showed up. It just was incredibly rare. Also, he broke his ankle in Los Angeles. As for the Anaheim game where he separated his shoulder, he didn't register a single hit that game. Not one.
4. How is that relevant? It isn't as if the team was 40 points out in October. Even before the season was lost, Carter rarely gave any effort. He sulked from the moment he arrived to the day he was traded. It is well known that Carter was a locker room cancer, and the team did better after he was gone. Did you notice that, after Carter was gone, the players would mention in interviews how much better the room is when you have people who play like they want to be there? Wisniewski, Boll, Dorsett, hell even Brassard made comments of that nature.

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09-14-2012, 11:47 PM
  #93
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1. Not a Cavs fan, didn't bother me one bit.
2. Did you watch any of the games?
3. He did score two hat tricks. Nobody said he never showed up. It just was incredibly rare. Also, he broke his ankle in Los Angeles. As for the Anaheim game where he separated his shoulder, he didn't register a single hit that game. Not one.
4. How is that relevant? It isn't as if the team was 40 points out in October. Even before the season was lost, Carter rarely gave any effort. He sulked from the moment he arrived to the day he was traded. It is well known that Carter was a locker room cancer, and the team did better after he was gone. Did you notice that, after Carter was gone, the players would mention in interviews how much better the room is when you have people who play like they want to be there? Wisniewski, Boll, Dorsett, hell even Brassard made comments of that nature.
It's relevant because the Columbus whinefest about Jeff Carter is completely misplaced. Who cares if he did or didn't want to be there, you don't add Jeff Carter to a basement team and expect them to make the playoffs. That's what Howson did. Jeff Carter's existence as a human being is a non factor when you look at the organization's failings on every conceivable level. The only reason people single him out was because they took it personally that he didn't want to be traded from Philadelphia.

And yeah, I did watch the games. He didn't look particularly good, but no one on the team did. It was laughable through and through and he still potted 25 points in 39 games on the, by far, last place team.

I mean what did you expect? Just look at the team's history. His name is Jeff Carter, not Jesus Carter.

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09-15-2012, 12:10 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Because you did not see how he conducted himself here. We know what a player with a long, effortless stride looks like - Rick Nash has up 'till quite recently played his entire career here.

Suggesting otherwise is borderline insulting; it's as good as saying that we lowly peons in Columbus don't know what lazy play looks like. We've seen this suggestion from Philly fans before - he's low key, he has a long stride that looks effortless, he's been falsely accused before, so clearly these Jackets fans don't know what they're talking about. Comments about his being regularly on a line with Nash are one of the easy warning signs - we tried having them on separate lines several times when things weren't quite "clicking" early on.

He wasn't supposed to be a cancer. He wasn't supposed to be a diva. We never thought that possible. We were prepared to assume the best of him - and in the early going, did so in spite of what we were seeing because we needed any kind of hope we could get. But he inarguably turned into both those things while he was here.

If you want to press the point, feel free, but please do one thing first: Watch how he played. Don't assume. Don't presume. Don't go by what you've known of him before. We know he's been falsely accused in the past, but we're really earnestly, deadly serious. Watch how the Columbus Blue Jackets hockey player wearing the "Carter" #7 sweater played hockey on a game-to-game basis. Every once in a while you'll recognize Jeff. Most of the time you may find yourself wondering who this guy is wearing #7 and pretending to be Jeff Carter.

But it's him. It really is him.

Watch, and you will understand.


You have made it well known for a long time about your hate for JC. Im not going to lie and say i watched more CBJ games than you , but i watched 7 games of Jeff carter when he was a CBJ, and from my point of view it looked like a team that was in such disarray it was hard to pick out who was trying and who was just plain bad. IN one of the games I did not see Nash go into one defensive corner the whole game. IN fact that seemed to be a theme for CBJ last year, a huge disconnect between the skilled players and the blue collar players.


Personally if i was the GM i would have chalked up last season as a disaster but a disaster that does not need to be touched. Wiz and Carter had huge injuries all year. A full season of them , and if they had gotten lucky at the draft and gotten yakupov and this team could have a killer top 6 all of a sudden.


NOw?

Now the team is void of talent on the roster and in the minors. While they have a potential stud goalie in bob and a defensive unit that can be considered very respectful the offense is going to be miserable.

Howson compounded all his mistakes by selling too short and too soon. For him to not come away with kreider, del zotto, or stepan is just pathetic. We are talking Rick Nash here for christ sake and he does not get a respectable package at all. Very disappointing for your team , and honestly the team you are fielding this next year will be even worst imo.

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09-15-2012, 12:17 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
1. Not a Cavs fan, didn't bother me one bit.
2. Did you watch any of the games?
3. He did score two hat tricks. Nobody said he never showed up. It just was incredibly rare. Also, he broke his ankle in Los Angeles. As for the Anaheim game where he separated his shoulder, he didn't register a single hit that game. Not one.
4. How is that relevant? It isn't as if the team was 40 points out in October. Even before the season was lost, Carter rarely gave any effort. He sulked from the moment he arrived to the day he was traded. It is well known that Carter was a locker room cancer, and the team did better after he was gone. Did you notice that, after Carter was gone, the players would mention in interviews how much better the room is when you have people who play like they want to be there? Wisniewski, Boll, Dorsett, hell even Brassard made comments of that nature.
"it is well known that Carter was a locker room cancer"

okay so this is your rationalization. Carter is just one dude, it's nice that you can use him as an excuse as to why the Bluejackets were a major miss

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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
You have made it well known for a long time about your hate for JC. Im not going to lie and say i watched more CBJ games than you , but i watched 7 games of Jeff carter when he was a CBJ, and from my point of view it looked like a team that was in such disarray it was hard to pick out who was trying and who was just plain bad. IN one of the games I did not see Nash go into one defensive corner the whole game. IN fact that seemed to be a theme for CBJ last year, a huge disconnect between the skilled players and the blue collar players.


Personally if i was the GM i would have chalked up last season as a disaster but a disaster that does not need to be touched. Wiz and Carter had huge injuries all year. A full season of them , and if they had gotten lucky at the draft and gotten yakupov and this team could have a killer top 6 all of a sudden.


NOw?

Now the team is void of talent on the roster and in the minors. While they have a potential stud goalie in bob and a defensive unit that can be considered very respectful the offense is going to be miserable.

Howson compounded all his mistakes by selling too short and too soon. For him to not come away with kreider, del zotto, or stepan is just pathetic. We are talking Rick Nash here for christ sake and he does not get a respectable package at all. Very disappointing for your team , and honestly the team you are fielding this next year will be even worst imo.
Yeah this is exactly what I am talking about. Carter as a cancer @ Columbus is the biggest hype job that some certain whiny bluejackets have pulled off.

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09-15-2012, 12:40 AM
  #96
Chacal667
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you cant win when you trade a player of the caliber of Rick Nash, but I have to admit that I thought columbus were to get a lil bit more

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09-15-2012, 01:28 AM
  #97
Jtown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
1. Not a Cavs fan, didn't bother me one bit.
2. Did you watch any of the games?
3. He did score two hat tricks. Nobody said he never showed up. It just was incredibly rare. Also, he broke his ankle in Los Angeles. As for the Anaheim game where he separated his shoulder, he didn't register a single hit that game. Not one.
4. How is that relevant? It isn't as if the team was 40 points out in October. Even before the season was lost, Carter rarely gave any effort. He sulked from the moment he arrived to the day he was traded. It is well known that Carter was a locker room cancer, and the team did better after he was gone. Did you notice that, after Carter was gone, the players would mention in interviews how much better the room is when you have people who play like they want to be there? Wisniewski, Boll, Dorsett, hell even Brassard made comments of that nature.
Candyman, do you think you can pull up someof those comments made by players after carter left? I googled this but could find no quotes.

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Old
09-15-2012, 04:44 AM
  #98
Dr Awesome
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His trade for carter was not good. His return I think he did well.


Best measure of how good a gm he is how many times his team made the playoffs in is tenure.
guy
answer about as solid as my grammar skills.


this is not troll attempt I am not hatter but wonder how this guy is at the helm

I must say however his return for nash was never gonna be great return but the pieces he got can help them move forward.

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09-15-2012, 05:14 AM
  #99
Reikai
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I dont think that Howson is nearly as bad as people make him out to be. I dont exactly know why he gets so much flak, is it because he is terrible or because some people just dont know hockey well enough.

First of all, he is at least trying to make the Jackets a competitive team. With Carter and Wisniewski he tried to acquire the number one center and defenseman. He is trying to fill the teams needs. Okay the Wiz signing was pretty bad, i'll admit that. But they had money to spend.

Carter trade was quite bad aswell. I dont know about other people but as soon as i heard the trade i knew it wasnt going to work out. Carter isnt that type of player that would want to play for any other team than a contender. We all knew Voracek was a good player already back then and he still had potential. BUT i think Howson did a good job correcting his mistake by acquiring Johnson. He is exactly the type of defenseman they need.

The situation with Nash was a very difficult one. I too thought it wasnt a very good deal at first but then after thinking about it, it actually isnt that bad.

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Old
09-15-2012, 05:40 AM
  #100
KEEROLE Vatanen
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Taking back Dubinsky in the Nash trade was ridiculous, since they got no elite talent back. 4 million dollar 3rd liners are way overvalued these days

also the isles offered their entire draft for CBJ to drop TWO spots sorry but for a team with as many organizational needs as CBJ it was not smart IMO to not do the trade

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