HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Notices

Who do you hope 'wins', the owners or players' union?

View Poll Results: Which side do you favor more?
On balance I hope that the owners get more of what they are asking 61 56.48%
On balance I hope that the players get more of what they are asking 35 32.41%
I hope that they both go to hell, I am never watching hockey again. 7 6.48%
There is a strike? Who cares, Bella and Edward broke up, OMG. 5 4.63%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-15-2012, 01:35 AM
  #26
HuskerTornado
RIP UW AlwaysBelieve
 
HuskerTornado's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Parts Unknown
Country: United States
Posts: 11,692
vCash: 500
I can't believe this is happening. After 04, I never thought the league and PA would be this stupid...and it only took as long as that CBA to expire to show me my erroneous thinking...

At the end of the day, the league is about the fans. Neither side seems to realize this. The league only exists because fans buy the tickets and merch which makes the franchises money and pays the players.

After gaining somewhat steady traction in terms of ratings over the last 5 years, the NHL is now the butt of jokes again...

HuskerTornado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 02:12 AM
  #27
Big McLargehuge
Moderator
Diving in Head First
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Finland
Posts: 51,796
vCash: 422
The NHL deserves every lost viewer and the players deserve every boo for this disgrace.

__________________
“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick
Big McLargehuge is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 02:49 AM
  #28
Giskard
Registered User
 
Giskard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alps
Country: Italy
Posts: 528
vCash: 500
I don't really cares who wins as far as today a new CBA is signed.
Otherwise go to hell everybody with all your money. Enjoy it.

Giskard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 03:39 AM
  #29
Coach John McGuirk
Bylstarded
 
Coach John McGuirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,703
vCash: 500
I'm more angry with the players than the owners, but I am extremely angry with both.

Coach John McGuirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 07:05 AM
  #30
Sour Shoes
lol u mad cam?
 
Sour Shoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: pgh-original 12 Team
Posts: 2,145
vCash: 500
players care only about what's best for players. owners only care about what's best for owners. fans should do the same.

fans in pittsburgh, and about 24 other markets benefit from an ownership victory. i'll be purchasing a penguin jersey with bettman stitched on the back to show my support. i just need to figure out which number gary would wear.

Sour Shoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 07:36 AM
  #31
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Great Play Orpik!
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 40,103
vCash: 500
Why do people here think the players are trying to get rid of the salary cap? They're trying to retain the contract money they've already been promised.

Also, the future of the Pens is secure. They have a multi-billionaire owner, a new arena, and the face of hockey signed for the next 13 years.


Last edited by Rowdy Roddy Peeper: 09-15-2012 at 07:45 AM.
Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 08:08 AM
  #32
Giskard
Registered User
 
Giskard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alps
Country: Italy
Posts: 528
vCash: 500
It's funny that players and owners are fighting for OUR money, and WE are the ones who lose ...

Giskard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 08:14 AM
  #33
IHWR
The Chiropractor
 
IHWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,314
vCash: 500
We all know both sides will agree to something close to what the other major sports leagues have, it just stinks that we're going to burn a few days/weeks/months while the two sides try and posture.

I've done a lot of reading about HRR lately and honestly...I'm starting to side with the owners more. Combine that with the insane spike in operating costs and I think it's hard to justify the player's stance and that weird proposal they keep offering. Until they at least get on the same page as the NHL and start negotiating on reasonable proposals...not much is going to change anytime soon.

How hateable is Don Fehr though? Ugh...I can't stand that guy. Oddly enough, I've always kinda like Bettman. He used to come across kinda phony (since I assume he only became a hockey fan once he got the gig) but I genuinely think he has the best interests of the league and sport in mind. Last time it was the necessity of adding a salary cap...now it's moving towards a 50/50 split.

It's pretty ridiculous that these negotiations ultimately are to protect the owners from themselves and it looks pretty half-hearted for teams like the Wild (signing Parise and Suter to monster deals) and the Flyers (lobbing an insane offer sheet at Weber) to now be on the side of a lockout but until these issues like front loading contracts and the now massive raises players are getting in their second RFA contracts get resolved...the league will continue to scratch and claw.

But new loopholes will pop up and owners and GMs will continue to try and find ways to circumvent the cap and we'll take two steps backward again.

Just wait until the owners want to get rid of guaranteed contracts. We'll definitely lose a season over that of it ever comes up.

IHWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 08:25 AM
  #34
Ugene Malkin
Because....
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 20,491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Why do people here think the players are trying to get rid of the salary cap? They're trying to retain the contract money they've already been promised.

Also, the future of the Pens is secure. They have a multi-billionaire owner, a new arena, and the face of hockey signed for the next 13 years.
Two wrongs doesn't make a right.*Past two lock outs*

Seriously....the Players don't and can't fix the issues with the league, "this belongs" and starts with League/Owners. They know the ins and outs of their management and economics more than the NHLPA/players.

You handcuff the league/owners and the players will suffer more in the end.

Profit-sharing is a luxury and not a right.


To the Players and Owners.

Ugene Malkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 08:46 AM
  #35
DegenX
Mixing the Kool-Aid
 
DegenX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 3,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Why do people here think the players are trying to get rid of the salary cap? They're trying to retain the contract money they've already been promised.

Also, the future of the Pens is secure. They have a multi-billionaire owner, a new arena, and the face of hockey signed for the next 13 years.
Regarding the salary cap ... part of their proposal would be to allow teams to buy and sell cap space. While their current position is to move from a hard cap to a soft cap, with Fehr in the drivers seat for the NHLPA, and his constant references to how MLB works, a lot of folks expect him to start moving towards that same system.

Not so fun fact ... if there is a lockout, Fehr will be the first Executive Director to have presided through lockouts of two different sports.

DegenX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 09:31 AM
  #36
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Seymour, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 13,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Why do people here think the players are trying to get rid of the salary cap? They're trying to retain the contract money they've already been promised.

Also, the future of the Pens is secure. They have a multi-billionaire owner, a new arena, and the face of hockey signed for the next 13 years.
Last I heard the players were pushing for a soft cap similar to what the NBA has, is that not true? Also, you're being extremely short sighted with the Penguins financial situation. In the early 90's we couldve said the same thing about the penguins and we all know how that turned out once Lemieux and Jagr were gone. We arent always going to have a generational talent on the team and frankly as a fan of the sport overall, the league itself is much more enjoyable now where more teams have a chance at winning than it did with the same old teams throwing the most money at players.

Sorry, as someone who has to put up with watching the Pirates in a system that Fehr seems to love I just don't know how any Pittsburgh sports fan could support the players side and what they really want. Players only care about their own bank accounts, not the overall health of the league. When a players union has too much power you end up with the MLB and that gives us such great parity as the Pirates with their 30 million dollar payroll vs the Yankees and their 215 million dollar payroll.

Gooch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 09:32 AM
  #37
Ogrezilla
Arrogant Yinzer
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 29,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Why do people here think the players are trying to get rid of the salary cap? They're trying to retain the contract money they've already been promised.
They already proposed a plan to make it more of a soft cap by allowing teams to buy and sell cap space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Also, the future of the Pens is secure. They have a multi-billionaire owner, a new arena, and the face of hockey signed for the next 13 years.
The Pens are still a small/middle market team. We won't keep up spending with the Rangers forever.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 09:45 AM
  #38
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Mod Powers
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fangorn
Country: United States
Posts: 24,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Players, without a shadow of a doubt. People can say they make millions, but so does the league, and the players made all the concessions last time around.

An article from a thread on the Business board sums it up nicely:

Bettman bad for business

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1259709


Basically, Bettman wants the players to shoulder the financial pitfalls of his money-pit southern expansion experiment that has never yielded the big money TV contract he thought it would. Of course a good portion of teams aren't making money, because it was Bettman's initiative to put them in non-conventional areas. If he decides to put a team in Cairo, should the players give up more of their share to fund that too?

It's not the players responsibility to foot the bill for Bettman's goofy expansion ideas.
Hits the nail on the head. The league is mis-managed and they're asking the players to pay the price, bottom line. They did that last time. Time for the owners to suck it up and do what is necessary to manage their league properly without gouging the players every 5-10 years.

Darth Vitale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 09:49 AM
  #39
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Great Play Orpik!
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 40,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
Regarding the salary cap ... part of their proposal would be to allow teams to buy and sell cap space. While their current position is to move from a hard cap to a soft cap, with Fehr in the drivers seat for the NHLPA, and his constant references to how MLB works, a lot of folks expect him to start moving towards that same system.

Not so fun fact ... if there is a lockout, Fehr will be the first Executive Director to have presided through lockouts of two different sports.
I'd like to see some of the details of their soft cap proposal. Do you have a link?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Last I heard the players were pushing for a soft cap similar to what the NBA has, is that not true? Also, you're being extremely short sighted with the Penguins financial situation. In the early 90's we couldve said the same thing about the penguins and we all know how that turned out once Lemieux and Jagr were gone.
No we couldn't. The Pens didn't have a new arena or the attendant revenue streams.

Quote:
Sorry, as someone who has to put up with watching the Pirates in a system that Fehr seems to love I just don't know how any Pittsburgh sports fan could support the players side and what they really want. Players only care about their own bank accounts, not the overall health of the league. When a players union has too much power you end up with the MLB and that gives us such great parity as the Pirates with their 30 million dollar payroll vs the Yankees and their 215 million dollar payroll.
Not like those altruistic owners, eh?

Put it this way. Your employer makes a series of poor business decisions, and in order to recoup most of his losses, he wants to take away a huge percentage of your salary...for the second time in less than a decade. How would you feel?

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 09:55 AM
  #40
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Great Play Orpik!
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 40,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Hits the nail on the head. The league is mis-managed and they're asking the players to pay the price, bottom line. They did that last time. Time for the owners to suck it up and do what is necessary to manage their league properly without gouging the players every 5-10 years.
I honestly have no idea how people can be siding with the owners on this one. The players made all the concessions last time, the owners still couldn't get their **** together, and now people expect them to take another huge haircut?

You get the feeling some fans believe elite athletes should get paid the same amount they do, and take pay cuts every CBA until that's a reality.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 09:57 AM
  #41
Ogrezilla
Arrogant Yinzer
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 29,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Put it this way. Your employer makes a series of poor business decisions, and in order to recoup most of his losses, he wants to take away a huge percentage of your salary...for the second time in less than a decade. How would you feel?
My employer did make a series of poor business decisions. They laid me off.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 09-15-2012 at 10:05 AM.
Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 10:00 AM
  #42
Ogrezilla
Arrogant Yinzer
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 29,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I honestly have no idea how people can be siding with the owners on this one. The players made all the concessions last time, the owners still couldn't get their **** together, and now people expect them to take another huge haircut?

You get the feeling some fans believe elite athletes should get paid the same amount they do, and take pay cuts every CBA until that's a reality.
I don't think most of us are looking at this with sympathetic eyes for either. We are looking at what is best for us as fans. I don't care how much money these people make. Not one bit. I want every team to be able to compete financially. That would mean the owners winning.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 10:05 AM
  #43
Til the End of Time
Registered User
 
Til the End of Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Buenos Aires
Posts: 6,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Not like those altruistic owners, eh?

Put it this way. Your employer makes a series of poor business decisions, and in order to recoup most of his losses, he wants to take away a huge percentage of your salary...for the second time in less than a decade. How would you feel?
who cares about their feelings? why do you care who is right or wrong? save your pity party for something that actually matters-- there's more than enough sad stories in the media pertaining to people who are actually enduring real suffering due to the economic climate. the "put yourself in the players shoes" argument is worthless.

i'm more concerned about what benefits the penguins.

your notion that the pens are secure is rather naive.

they had the exact same billionaire owner back when the team was about to move. burkle is not some sort of savior that is willing to lose large amounts of money on this team. ownership agreed to spend up to the cap while this team was a contender in this league, and thats it.

for all their current success and revenue, this team still lost money last year.

fine, they have a new arena. so theyll be in pittsburgh for the next 15 years or whatever the agreement was. but that certainly doesnt guarantee theyll remain a highly competitive team. the penguins simply cannot compete with the big market teams if the CBA allows such clubs to flex their proverbial financial strength.

it seriously boggles my mind that people in pittsburgh can side with fehr. mind-blowing stuff. and then side against bettman and the owners, who fought to keep this team in pittsburgh and then delivered a CBA that let this team won the cup. jesus people, do you think if the players had their way last time, the pens have a cup right now?

Til the End of Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 10:06 AM
  #44
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Great Play Orpik!
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 40,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
My employer did make a series of poor business decisions. They laid me off. I would gladly go back at a 25% pay cut.
That's unfortunate. I guess we're different, because I'd find a 25% pay cut pretty tough to swallow.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 10:07 AM
  #45
Ogrezilla
Arrogant Yinzer
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 29,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
That's unfortunate. I guess we're different, because I'd find a 25% pay cut pretty tough to swallow.
it beats the alternative. Either way, that line of thinking is not really relevant when talking about the players. For us, that is very likely the difference in being able to pay our bills every month. For them, its just varying degrees of rich.

That said, my opinions here aren't based on that at all. I really don't care what they make. It does bother me when players make comments about this stuff and want sympathy from fans though.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 10:23 AM
  #46
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Great Play Orpik!
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 40,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
who cares about their feelings?why do you care who is right or wrong? i'm more concerned about what benefits the penguins.
I want NHL hockey, but not at the cost of compromising what I think is right. The NHL needs to be accountable for its poor business practices, not simply take the players to the woodshed every CBA to pay for its money-pit expansion clubs.

Quote:
your notion that the pens are secure is rather naive.

they had the exact same billionaire owner back when the team was about to move. burkle is not some sort of savior that is willing to lose large amounts of money on this team. ownership agreed to spend up to the cap while this team was a contender in this league, and thats it.
Like I said, the arena and its revenue streams changed that - the whole argument from Lemieux and Co. when the team was near bankruptcy was that the team needed a new arena to be successful. Now they have it, and it's up to the club to manage itself well enough to sustain profitability.

Quote:
for all their current success and revenue, this team still lost money last year.
Actually, none of us know that, because teams don't open their books publicly. As has been posted in the Business thread, most teams use some very creative accounting when crying poor.

Quote:
fine, they have a new arena. so theyll be in pittsburgh for the next 15 years or whatever the agreement was. but that certainly doesnt guarantee theyll remain a highly competitive team. the penguins simply cannot compete with the big market teams if the CBA allows such clubs to flex their proverbial financial strength.
Then the NHL ought to significantly expand revenue sharing, since they're boasting about record revenues whenever the CBA's not the main topic. Weird how that works.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 10:26 AM
  #47
Ogrezilla
Arrogant Yinzer
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 29,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Then the NHL ought to significantly expand revenue sharing, since they're boasting about record revenues whenever the CBA's not the main topic. Weird how that works.
that's still forcing people to give up money. its just the top owners instead of the players.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 10:28 AM
  #48
BLASPHEMOUS
**** the King
 
BLASPHEMOUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sherbrooke
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,684
vCash: 447
Personally, I could give two ***** about who wins between the out of touch players and the hypocritical owners. The only ones I care about are the people: the fans, to a good extent, but even moreso than them, those that depend on hockey for their businesses (local pubs and restaurants) and those who depend on hockey for their very jobs (think arena workers). They're the ones who are truly getting the short end of this sucking ****ing stick.

BLASPHEMOUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 10:37 AM
  #49
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Great Play Orpik!
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 40,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
that's still forcing people to give up money. its just the top owners instead of the players.
That's right. The ones who have a say in the NHL's business decisions.

If the "have" owners were forced to foot the bill, the league would be a little more prudent in deciding where to put teams.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2012, 10:55 AM
  #50
Ragamuffin Gunner
Lost in The Flood
 
Ragamuffin Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 14,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
My employer did make a series of poor business decisions. They laid me off.
This is why I with the owners.

With guaranteed contracts a player can have a good year, sigh a big contract and then proceed to suck ass and still get paid every penny of his deal. Just look at Leino. He had one decent year and a great PO run and not he doesn't have to worry about money again for the rest of his life because of the contract he signed. Who cares if he doesn't score more than 30 points again? He's getting millions of dollars regardless of how he plays.

I just about every other profession, if you stop performing up to your contract you're gonna get fired.

Ragamuffin Gunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.