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09-14-2012, 11:38 AM
  #26
FlamingTelepath
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Well the whole thing's ridiculous and I personally find it impossible to have any sympathy for either side. Everybody involved in these talks is rolling in money yet they decide to fight about it and screw up the game of hockey once again. Great job.

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09-14-2012, 01:47 PM
  #27
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PA easily here. The owners made a mistake and look hell bent on grabbing some money back from the players in the contracts they allowed in the former CBA that they forced on the players last lock out.



The PA might not be doing well in trying to make their cause visible but at the very least they're trying to do what they can to ensure that the season continues on as normal.

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09-14-2012, 01:58 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Sorry, but the comparisons of the players to the "average joe" is so... wrong, it's not funny. It's not even comparing apples to oranges, more like comparing apples to alien microbes. Of course the "average joe" wouldn't roll over and take a cut to his $50,000 / year job because he may not even be making ends meet as it is. Yet the average NHL salary IN ONE YEAR is the equivalent of 40 years of the "average joe's" salary. That's an entire working career, and then some. For ****s sake, can people stop using this comparison...

/rant
I look at some players as an average Joe. A player making 500K for 2 years and is now a career AHLer (working for a total of 10-15 years) is no different than someone making 100K for 30 years. The only difference is that entertainers are the product as well as the employee. The business model is the hockey player.

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09-14-2012, 02:13 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I look at some players as an average Joe. A player making 500K for 2 years and is now a career AHLer (working for a total of 10-15 years) is no different than someone making 100K for 30 years. The only difference is that entertainers are the product as well as the employee. The business model is the hockey player.
Sorry but when the **** did making 100k a year become average as of 2010 the average income after tax of a individual was 32,100 how is 1 person making 100k average. The average is about 40-50k a year. That is a vast difference.

source http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...mil21a-eng.htm

If we assume 40 is average than over 30 years they will earn 1.2 million if the hockey player makes 500k for 2 years than makes an average of 60k for 10-15 he is looking at a minimum of 1.6 million and has only worked 12 years to the average joe's 30 years.

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09-14-2012, 06:23 PM
  #30
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Stopped reading right here, based on what your saying the owners could demand the players play for free and you would still be on their side. Do yourself a favor look into how some of the ownership groups earn their money, and some of the slave wages they have paid to people to rake in profits.

You think all these guys get to the top because they are "smart"? Wow do they ever have you fooled.
Got me fooled? Jesus, who do u work for and if you know nothing about running a business than you should stop *****ing about this. I can see where uneducated fans who just love hockey can be mad, but we're talking about a league generating billions of dollars and several teams going broke. How the hell is that smart. I never even hinted how I am so on the owners side that players should play for free. Don't twist my words.

If I owned a business and I paid you 20 an hour, it actually works out to about 27 given all the remittance I have to pay, etc. that varies from state to state, province to province, etc.

In fact nah, you need to read up on business, economics, tax metrics, etc to see that this system is broken. The players have handcuffed themselves. But I put MORE blame on player agents. Not just the players.

Crosby makes 90million in endorsements. Sure as hell would not if he was in the KHL, Ahl, etc. that is in fact a non-HRR chunk of money that goes un-noticed.

I still cannot grasp how people are not understanding that if you don't fix it, we won't have a league, and teams will fold. Not sell, fold. Because when u buy the teams assets, you buy their debts. Can u not understand that? These owners could walk away and u think the players are gonna listen then? You bet.

Why do you think every owner fails to acquire the coyotes? But every other sale goes ok? Dallas, Buffalo, St. Louis. These are established teams with owners with deep pockets. Cap management is, spend to the cap. The teams that don't can, but can also afford not to because come HRR they get bailed out. If we had a better CBA, the oilers and flames will have brand new arena's in a snap! But why pony the cash when u gotta forfeit over 50%of your profits.

A team like Nashville HAS to pay weber, or the weak attendance gets weaker. It's a no-brainer.

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09-14-2012, 06:48 PM
  #31
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Got me fooled? Jesus, who do u work for and if you know nothing about running a business than you should stop *****ing about this. I can see where uneducated fans who just love hockey can be mad, but we're talking about a league generating billions of dollars and several teams going broke. How the hell is that smart. I never even hinted how I am so on the owners side that players should play for free. Don't twist my words.

If I owned a business and I paid you 20 an hour, it actually works out to about 27 given all the remittance I have to pay, etc. that varies from state to state, province to province, etc.

In fact nah, you need to read up on business, economics, tax metrics, etc to see that this system is broken. The players have handcuffed themselves. But I put MORE blame on player agents. Not just the players.

Crosby makes 90million in endorsements. Sure as hell would not if he was in the KHL, Ahl, etc. that is in fact a non-HRR chunk of money that goes un-noticed.

I still cannot grasp how people are not understanding that if you don't fix it, we won't have a league, and teams will fold. Not sell, fold. Because when u buy the teams assets, you buy their debts. Can u not understand that? These owners could walk away and u think the players are gonna listen then? You bet.

Why do you think every owner fails to acquire the coyotes? But every other sale goes ok? Dallas, Buffalo, St. Louis. These are established teams with owners with deep pockets. Cap management is, spend to the cap. The teams that don't can, but can also afford not to because come HRR they get bailed out. If we had a better CBA, the oilers and flames will have brand new arena's in a snap! But why pony the cash when u gotta forfeit over 50%of your profits.

A team like Nashville HAS to pay weber, or the weak attendance gets weaker. It's a no-brainer.
Read my comment again. What you just replied with has nothing to do with the part of the post I addressed.

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09-14-2012, 07:26 PM
  #32
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Sorry but when the **** did making 100k a year become average as of 2010 the average income after tax of a individual was 32,100 how is 1 person making 100k average. The average is about 40-50k a year. That is a vast difference.

source http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...mil21a-eng.htm

If we assume 40 is average than over 30 years they will earn 1.2 million if the hockey player makes 500k for 2 years than makes an average of 60k for 10-15 he is looking at a minimum of 1.6 million and has only worked 12 years to the average joe's 30 years.
I didn't mean it in a literal sense of "average" Joe and dollar for dollar equivalence. I just meant that some typical workers are comparable (in wages) to lower tier players. I mean a welder in Ft. Mac clears 100K easy, and it's not like a welder is this glorious job. A welder seems like an average Joe.


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09-14-2012, 07:55 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
Got me fooled? Jesus, who do u work for and if you know nothing about running a business than you should stop *****ing about this. I can see where uneducated fans who just love hockey can be mad, but we're talking about a league generating billions of dollars and several teams going broke. How the hell is that smart. I never even hinted how I am so on the owners side that players should play for free. Don't twist my words.

If I owned a business and I paid you 20 an hour, it actually works out to about 27 given all the remittance I have to pay, etc. that varies from state to state, province to province, etc.

In fact nah, you need to read up on business, economics, tax metrics, etc to see that this system is broken. The players have handcuffed themselves. But I put MORE blame on player agents. Not just the players.

Crosby makes 90million in endorsements. Sure as hell would not if he was in the KHL, Ahl, etc. that is in fact a non-HRR chunk of money that goes un-noticed.

I still cannot grasp how people are not understanding that if you don't fix it, we won't have a league, and teams will fold. Not sell, fold. Because when u buy the teams assets, you buy their debts. Can u not understand that? These owners could walk away and u think the players are gonna listen then? You bet.

Why do you think every owner fails to acquire the coyotes? But every other sale goes ok? Dallas, Buffalo, St. Louis. These are established teams with owners with deep pockets. Cap management is, spend to the cap. The teams that don't can, but can also afford not to because come HRR they get bailed out. If we had a better CBA, the oilers and flames will have brand new arena's in a snap! But why pony the cash when u gotta forfeit over 50%of your profits.

A team like Nashville HAS to pay weber, or the weak attendance gets weaker. It's a no-brainer.
Ok calm down Kevin O Leary, it's complicated, but nobody is as dumb as you think they are.

First, Crosby could make 90 million in the KHL. It's not like there's some scientific characterization of the NHL and NHL only that produces endorsement revenue. If the north american audience was tuning into KHL games in large numbers, then Gatorade, Dempsters, Tim Hortons, and whoever wants to exploit this audience would choose an KHL star to be their poster boy. It's simply who people are watching. With that said, it's not impossible for people to be watching more KHL than NHL, it's just not happening.


Secondly, yes there is remittance to be factored. But there's also opportunity costs from the players. Before the supply and demand of labour was restricted by the terms of the cap, players were making free market value for there services. Therefore these players are now taking enormous losses in potential salary. So should that be factored in too?

As far as the Flames and Oilers having new arena's if players were getting a smaller slice of the pie, that's completely speculative. What if the owner's were greedy and still wanted the public to split the bill with claims of economic benefit? Has there been no greedy billionair before? Not even in, oh let's say, the banking sector? I'm pretty sure I remember CEO's on wallstreet getting bonuses even after the public had to bail them out....

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09-14-2012, 08:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I look at some players as an average Joe. A player making 500K for 2 years and is now a career AHLer (working for a total of 10-15 years) is no different than someone making 100K for 30 years. The only difference is that entertainers are the product as well as the employee. The business model is the hockey player.
You're right - mostly I'm just *****y because there probably won't be a full season, if at all, and I'm getting tired of the rhetoric from all sides.

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09-14-2012, 08:43 PM
  #35
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I'm siding with the owners. They are the ones who are risking their capital. At the end of the day it's a business and if you're risking money, you should be entitled to make a return on your investment.

It's easy to be an Iginla or a Cammalleri and hold out for more money. But what if you're Tim Jackman? You've made a million playing in the NHL and stand to make another million in the next two years. Nothing is certain after that. You bet he wants every penny of the 550k he stands to make this year.

Honestly, if i were the players i would negotiate until Sept. 15 and then take whatever deal is offered. The lockout hurts the players more than it hurts the owners. They won't recoup what they stand to lose.

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09-14-2012, 10:04 PM
  #36
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I didn't mean it in a literal sense of "average" Joe and dollar for dollar equivalence. I just meant that some typical workers are comparable (in wages) to lower tier players. I mean a welder in Ft. Mac clears 100K easy, and it's not like a welder is this glorious job. A welder seems like an average Joe.
Then don't call them the average joe. The average person makes much less in their life time it is only the slim majority that make 100+k a year. Also according http://www.livingin-canada.com/salar...rs-canada.html to this average income of a welder is between 45-55k depending on the province. I think your idea of average is skewed as the vast majority of the population make less, much less than the players you are describing.

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09-14-2012, 10:30 PM
  #37
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Then don't call them the average joe. The average person makes much less in their life time it is only the slim majority that make 100+k a year. Also according http://www.livingin-canada.com/salar...rs-canada.html to this average income of a welder is between 45-55k depending on the province. I think your idea of average is skewed as the vast majority of the population make less, much less than the players you are describing.
Is the welder living in Drumheller making 40-55K? Absolutely. Is the welder in Nisku making that. I ****ing hope not. So what are we arguing here; people have different salaries based on local economy? Yes if we take the average salaries of welders, including those living in Manning Alberta, the average salary isn't very high. But it's not unreasonable for joe-****ing-welder to be making 100K in this province. By arguing this, you don't know **** all about this economy. I don't care what the numbers say; i'm out here living it. Business ain't too bad lately, depending where you're working.

It seems like you've focused on some pretty pathetic **** here. C'mon, we're nitpicking welder salaries...

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09-14-2012, 10:43 PM
  #38
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I'm siding with the owners. They are the ones who are risking their capital. At the end of the day it's a business and if you're risking money, you should be entitled to make a return on your investment.

It's easy to be an Iginla or a Cammalleri and hold out for more money. But what if you're Tim Jackman? You've made a million playing in the NHL and stand to make another million in the next two years. Nothing is certain after that. You bet he wants every penny of the 550k he stands to make this year.

Honestly, if i were the players i would negotiate until Sept. 15 and then take whatever deal is offered. The lockout hurts the players more than it hurts the owners. They won't recoup what they stand to lose.
And the players are risking their necks....

Let me be clear, had the owners started to propose an offer in the same ballpark of reason that the player's put together, this wouldn't be an arguement. Both the players and the owners are fighting over money at the fan's expense when it's dissected into it's simplest form. However, it's in my opinion that the owner's aren't trying as hard as the players are to solve the problems of the game. Fighting over percentages in revenue is a big deal, but not a solution. I want something that's going to prevent us from having to experience this **** 6 years from now, and then again after that. No more work stoppages!!

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09-14-2012, 11:03 PM
  #39
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And the players are risking their necks....

Let me be clear, had the owners started to propose an offer in the same ballpark of reason that the player's put together, this wouldn't be an arguement. Both the players and the owners are fighting over money at the fan's expense when it's dissected into it's simplest form. However, it's in my opinion that the owner's aren't trying as hard as the players are to solve the problems of the game. Fighting over percentages in revenue is a big deal, but not a solution. I want something that's going to prevent us from having to experience this **** 6 years from now, and then again after that. No more work stoppages!!
I totally agree with you. This is spot on.

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09-15-2012, 12:04 AM
  #40
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Is the welder living in Drumheller making 40-55K? Absolutely. Is the welder in Nisku making that. I ****ing hope not. So what are we arguing here; people have different salaries based on local economy? Yes if we take the average salaries of welders, including those living in Manning Alberta, the average salary isn't very high. But it's not unreasonable for joe-****ing-welder to be making 100K in this province. By arguing this, you don't know **** all about this economy. I don't care what the numbers say; i'm out here living it. Business ain't too bad lately, depending where you're working.

It seems like you've focused on some pretty pathetic **** here. C'mon, we're nitpicking welder salaries...
What are you talking about you brought up the "average joe" and then used the highest precentile of earnings to be "average". If you want to compare numbers then use the average if you want to support the players because they work hard then by all means do it but don't act like they are underpaid by any means.

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09-15-2012, 01:13 AM
  #41
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You can call me an idiot all you want, I'm fully aware of the arguments from both sides. I'm not going to even bother going down that path because it's been debated to the grave at this point. I'm not really on anyone's side, the only people that truly suffer are the fans.
Oh please. The fans are the only one suffering? Really?

Oh no! Instead of spending three hours watching a game they'll have to pick up the remote and change the channel to watch something else. Oh the horror! The horror!

Seriously though, the only people actually suffering in a lockout situation are janitors, the concession workers, the arena staff, etc. You know, the guys who aren't making millions and who either lose their jobs or are on reduced pay until the lockout's settled. Those are the only people who actually lose.

Hockey is a form of entertainment, a luxury like all sports. If being unable to watch a game for a while is considered suffering, well, that's kind of sad.

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50/50 That is the way HRR should work, no?! Two things are fundamental to the NHL, capital (the owners) and the product (the players). Should a 50/50 split not be the logical point to concede to? I think so, and I think regardless, that is where the numbers will land.

I expect greedy billionaires to squabble over chump change, not players who are supposed to love nothing more than to do what they love. They get compensated quite fairly to be the best at what they do.
What does love have to do with anything? Honestly, by that same token, there are owners who love the sport so much, they should be content to make whatever they do, because you know, they love the sport so much.

Players are compensated according to what the markets dictate, nothing more, nothing less. And since they're the product, they're the ones putting their bodies on the line for our entertainment, I would much rather see them get more of my money, rather than the owners, who simply facilitate the process.

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They should be willing to do a 50/50 split. This is why I place most of the blame on them, I simply do not expect anything more from the owners. All the other aspects of the CBA could be fleshed out easily past this sticking point.

It doesn't take brains to figure out where these negotations will land with regards to HRR.
The players might very well not have a problem with a 50/50 split and that may very well be the final number when it's all said and done. But what the owners are doing at the moment is nothing short of bullying, plain and simple.

The players have the greater revenue split which they are quite content to keep. The owners however, aren't, and they want to the split to lower. See, the owners want something from the players. And when people want something from someone else, they usually offer something in return, i.e. a trade. So, to get it a lower split, they should offer a concession, i.e. greater revenue sharing between the rich teams and the poor, phasing in the drop in the cap, etc.

Instead, the owners not only demanded the players lower the share, they want to decrease the definition of HRR, which would lower the 'pie' as a whole, and then, they want the players to facilitate all of this by taking a immediate salary rollback, either permanently or a temporary one through escrow.

And in return, they offer nothing. 'Give us what we want or we'll lockout you out." Yes, the owners can play hardball to get what they want; they can afford to. But a healthy league means a healthy partnership and if one side would consistently feel that they are the only sacrificing to make things work, that's not a healthy relationship.

And keep in mind, none of what the owners have proposed actually fixes the real issues (rich teams making too much so that the poorer teams can't keep up); all of it will just come back in the next CBA negotiations. Essentially, ensuring that each CBA will be contentious and will see lockout after lockout after lockout. Those supporting the owners should actually see what they're proposing instead of just whining about the players making more money then them.

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09-15-2012, 09:02 AM
  #42
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Oh please. The fans are the only one suffering? Really?

Oh no! Instead of spending three hours watching a game they'll have to pick up the remote and change the channel to watch something else. Oh the horror! The horror!

Seriously though, the only people actually suffering in a lockout situation are janitors, the concession workers, the arena staff, etc. You know, the guys who aren't making millions and who either lose their jobs or are on reduced pay until the lockout's settled. Those are the only people who actually lose.

Hockey is a form of entertainment, a luxury like all sports. If being unable to watch a game for a while is considered suffering, well, that's kind of sad.



What does love have to do with anything? Honestly, by that same token, there are owners who love the sport so much, they should be content to make whatever they do, because you know, they love the sport so much.

Players are compensated according to what the markets dictate, nothing more, nothing less. And since they're the product, they're the ones putting their bodies on the line for our entertainment, I would much rather see them get more of my money, rather than the owners, who simply facilitate the process.



The players might very well not have a problem with a 50/50 split and that may very well be the final number when it's all said and done. But what the owners are doing at the moment is nothing short of bullying, plain and simple.

The players have the greater revenue split which they are quite content to keep. The owners however, aren't, and they want to the split to lower. See, the owners want something from the players. And when people want something from someone else, they usually offer something in return, i.e. a trade. So, to get it a lower split, they should offer a concession, i.e. greater revenue sharing between the rich teams and the poor, phasing in the drop in the cap, etc.

Instead, the owners not only demanded the players lower the share, they want to decrease the definition of HRR, which would lower the 'pie' as a whole, and then, they want the players to facilitate all of this by taking a immediate salary rollback, either permanently or a temporary one through escrow.

And in return, they offer nothing. 'Give us what we want or we'll lockout you out." Yes, the owners can play hardball to get what they want; they can afford to. But a healthy league means a healthy partnership and if one side would consistently feel that they are the only sacrificing to make things work, that's not a healthy relationship.

And keep in mind, none of what the owners have proposed actually fixes the real issues (rich teams making too much so that the poorer teams can't keep up); all of it will just come back in the next CBA negotiations. Essentially, ensuring that each CBA will be contentious and will see lockout after lockout after lockout. Those supporting the owners should actually see what they're proposing instead of just whining about the players making more money then them.
Weak argument. These are billion $$$$ businessmen, who likely, busted there ass to become billionaires. They take all the risk financially when taking on an NHL franchise. Players salaries have doubled since 04-05. Asking for more revenue back is just fine.

Like I said these are not men of substance IMO, the are greedy dollar machines. I expected more from the PA. I'll admit they have a very tough job and have worked very hard to get there. But guess what, I busted my ass to get to where I am in life and I don't even make 6 figures.

Go out and play hockey you heartless whiners. Do what you "supposedly" love and forget about the menial pocket change you will lose. Damn, I guess they can't afford that extra Ferrari now, what a shame.

Oh and your first comment was hilarious. This is a hockey forum, of course I'm saddened by a lockout. I'm not going to jump off the nearest bridge I can find, but I'm definitely pissed. Outside of the minimum wage staff at the facilities in which the NHL operates, I'd say the biggest losers in all this are the fans of hockey.

I think both sides suck balls and could care less about us as fans. I simply expected more give from players who have seen their average salary double since the last CBA. I mean do you think a kid like Seguin should really care if his yearly income is 5.75 or 5.25 million? C'mon man, are you still living in your parents basement? Because that is not a real world problem in western society. And not even close to being a worldly problem.

I have no sympathy for either side, and I'm actually appalled by the players.

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09-15-2012, 12:10 PM
  #43
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Weak argument. These are billion $$$$ businessmen, who likely, busted there ass to become billionaires. They take all the risk financially when taking on an NHL franchise. Players salaries have doubled since 04-05. Asking for more revenue back is just fine.

Like I said these are not men of substance IMO, the are greedy dollar machines. I expected more from the PA. I'll admit they have a very tough job and have worked very hard to get there. But guess what, I busted my ass to get to where I am in life and I don't even make 6 figures.

Go out and play hockey you heartless whiners. Do what you "supposedly" love and forget about the menial pocket change you will lose. Damn, I guess they can't afford that extra Ferrari now, what a shame.

Oh and your first comment was hilarious. This is a hockey forum, of course I'm saddened by a lockout. I'm not going to jump off the nearest bridge I can find, but I'm definitely pissed. Outside of the minimum wage staff at the facilities in which the NHL operates, I'd say the biggest losers in all this are the fans of hockey.

I think both sides suck balls and could care less about us as fans. I simply expected more give from players who have seen their average salary double since the last CBA. I mean do you think a kid like Seguin should really care if his yearly income is 5.75 or 5.25 million? C'mon man, are you still living in your parents basement? Because that is not a real world problem in western society. And not even close to being a worldly problem.

I have no sympathy for either side, and I'm actually appalled by the players.
I'm not entirely sure what you're aguring. It just sounds like your mad because your not rich. It sounds like you believe people should do the things they love for free. I think you need to calm down. It's ridiculous to complain that someone is richer than you and they're happy about it because their job is fun. That's just the way she goes.

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09-15-2012, 12:20 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
What are you talking about you brought up the "average joe" and then used the highest precentile of earnings to be "average". If you want to compare numbers then use the average if you want to support the players because they work hard then by all means do it but don't act like they are underpaid by any means.
Again, I didn't mean literal "average". I just meant a regular person like you or I; not Tom Cruise or some well known famous person. I meant the novelist definition of average, not the mathmatician's definition. Had I wanted to break down the definition of "Average Joe" into a statistical proof of class and marginalization than I would've said "Arithmetic-Mean Joe"...

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09-15-2012, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Again, I didn't mean literal "average". I just meant a regular person like you or I; not Tom Cruise or some well known famous person. I meant the novelist definition of average, not the mathmatician's definition. Had I wanted to break down the definition of "Average Joe" into a statistical proof of class and marginalization than I would've said "Arithmetic-Mean Joe"...
Except you aren't using regular people they are in the top percentile of earners in the country. Hockey players work hard no doubt but I think its ******** that they work harder than average people just because they are in good shape. They make at least 2x what the average person makes in their working lives and yet people think that they have it hard? I feel for the guys in the ahl that never make it to the nhl to get their pay day but the vast majority of the nhlers make more than million a season and then they turn around and say they don't think they are making to much. Again I think the owners are also at fault but it is usaually the big owners that are screwing the 75-80% of the rest of the owners.

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09-15-2012, 04:58 PM
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I'm not entirely sure what you're aguring. It just sounds like your mad because your not rich. It sounds like you believe people should do the things they love for free. I think you need to calm down. It's ridiculous to complain that someone is richer than you and they're happy about it because their job is fun. That's just the way she goes.
That's just it, I'm not arguing anything, and I'm certainly not jealous. I could care less how much money is in my bank account at the end of the day. My life is great, and I certainly do not need money to measure my self worth.

Where did I say players should play for free? I specifically said why should Tyler Seguin care if he makes 5.75 or 5.25 million per year. That difference has no impact on his standard of living.

I simply don't care for these issues that millionaires and billionaires have, it's ridiculous. HRR should be 50/50, both sides take risks. These clowns need to stop disagreeing on superfluous details, it's time to cut the ********.

The NHL has grown in worth, everyone has benefited. You would think that would be enough to allow for some smooth negotiating. Something which we have yet to see.

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09-15-2012, 06:03 PM
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I have no desire too pick either side as they are both equally responsible for the situation.

However if I had to chose, I would be on the side of the owners and the NHL. They are after all the ones running the show. Considering the majority of these owners struggle to break even on their investments, while the average player is making well over two million dollars, I can see their distaste with the "old" agreement.

I would definitely say that the NHLPA came out well ahead as a result of the previous lockout, and the balance should be trimmed for a better sharing amongst the two parties.

With that said I do not appreciate the stance the NHL has taken in negotiations. This process should have been started a long time ago, and the hardball for the most part has been played by the owners. But again, since the players are failing to even counter offer any of the NHL's proposals they equally share the blame.

What ultimately pisses me off the most is that thousands of people with little to no say at all in the decision will undoubtedly be hurt most by the entire ordeal.

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09-15-2012, 07:25 PM
  #48
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It takes 2 hands to clap i.e. they need each other to run this business. Personally I say keep hockey running while you negotiate cause another season lost may hurt the weaker market teams as it will not be easy to bring back fans again if the NHL's credibility is lost with back to back lockouts. While a team like the flames will still be ok after a lockout I am not sure about teams like PHX etc. Growing a business means taking care of your customer and I am not sure how this will reflect on people who are still learning to like hockey in the States.

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09-16-2012, 12:57 PM
  #49
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I read an interesting article and thought it could contribute to this debate, seeing as how some people view hockey player's as whiners about their bank accounts:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...on_the_owners/


Quote:
The average NHL salary is $2.4 million. The median salary however -- the 50 per cent mark on the salary list -- is about $1.4 million.
It is those players, the bulk of whom make less than $1 million, who make up better than one-third of the union.
Quote:
The average hockey team is now worth $240 million, 5% more than last year due to a 5% increase in revenue during the 2010-11 season, to an average of $103 million per team.
Quote:
[O]ver half of all NHL players play less than 100 games in their career. Four per cent -- that's 1-in-25 -- reach 1,000 games. The average NHL career lasts for 5.62 seasons. But the median career -- the 50 per cent point of all NHL careers -- is actually just four seasons.
Quote:
The average NHL career spans 238 games. However the median career lasts just 86 games. That's barely more than one 82-game regular season for half of all NHL players.

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09-16-2012, 01:17 PM
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TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I read an interesting article and thought it could contribute to this debate, seeing as how some people view hockey player's as whiners about their bank accounts:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...on_the_owners/
It says the median salary is 1.4 and the median career is 4 years long, so that tells me the mean player makes 1.4 x 4 = 5.6 million so that would mean the majority makes well over 2 million. I don't think the is to low maybe I am missing what your point is here?

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