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Well the off season is basically over....Lets grade it!

View Poll Results: Overall grade for the Wings off season
A 3 3.00%
B 4 4.00%
C 25 25.00%
D 38 38.00%
F 28 28.00%
Anything else. Put in your reply 2 2.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-14-2012, 05:23 AM
  #51
garry1221
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I don't see how this offseason can be any higher than a D. There were no significant moves made or players signed. Even though we plainly have needs for them. The most exciting additions to me are a backup goalie and an energy player... When we were pretty stacked in the bottom six already. We needed a top six winger... We got Sammy... And it's still debatable if he's the right calibre of top six player that we need. Last and certainly least, is Colaiacovo. A more of the same type defenseman. Would have rather seen a Commodore type signing than him. Hell, for a #7 option we should have just went with Janik. Going on ufa alone, there's a strong argument for giving this offseason a lower grade than a D. There's 3 question marks in Brunner, Nyquist, and Smith. Those three players are what's elevating this offseason to a D for me. I hope hindsight proves me wrong, but I don't feel like looking like a smurf.

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Old
09-14-2012, 05:42 AM
  #52
Thrace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Think about who our so-called young roster players are.
Helm 2005 pick
Abdelkader 2005 pick
Kindl 2005 pick
Howard 2003 pick
Ericsson 2002 pick

We're not developing players.
We're doing something very wrong with player development.

Since the 2006 draft, our picks have 370 games played. 205 are by Shawn Matthias.
Dear lord. I'm not a Holland basher by any means but to see a list like that is just depressing.

On the topic of this offseason, I voted D. Gustavsson, Tootoo and Brunner were fine, low-risk signings. I'd have been ok with bringing in Sammy if we'd let Bertuzzi walk and kept Hudler. I don't blame Holland for not getting Suter, but I wish we'd got Garrison instead of CC. And why the Wings seemingly didn't make any play for Semin is still a mystery to me.

As others have said, there doesn't seem to be a plan this year, unless it's to plug vacated holes with inferior and/or older players. That's unlikely to be like a sound strategy in either the short or long terms.


Last edited by Thrace: 09-14-2012 at 05:49 AM.
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Old
09-14-2012, 08:18 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
I voted F too.
With your avatar, who would be surprised?

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Old
09-14-2012, 08:29 AM
  #54
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I voted F

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Old
09-14-2012, 08:41 AM
  #55
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I voted F

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:52 PM
  #56
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I'll give it a D+, maybe even as high as a C-, based solely off of the potential of Brunner, and (perhaps) finally getting a decent backup goaltender.

Everything else... get out of here. Sammy sucks, CC sucks, and Tootoo is an (albeit decent) plug that finally addresses some of the grit issues, but clogs up the bottom 6 that much more (something Holland should've addressed at some point here, and still hasn't). I'm actually inclined to agree with Bob for a change; he'd a great pickup any other year, but this year it's really just more of the same. And then there's the Abdelkader and Quincey extensions... uuuuuggggghhhhhh.

The outlined above in my first statement is what keeps this from being a flat F, assuming of course Brunner and Monster actually pan out. And that is a very big "if".

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Old
09-14-2012, 05:21 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
I voted F
You'd have done that if Holland managed to acquire Crosby and Malkin.

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Old
09-14-2012, 05:52 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Worst offseason this team has had since --- wow, I can't even remember ... even when we lost Fedorov, we got Hatcher and Whitney.

And he gets a C?

In terms of what we needed? Nothing major was addressed.
In terms of what we got? nothing major addressed
F.

This is by far the worst offseason Holland has ever had.
It was preceded by 3 or 4 pretty mediocre off-season.... that put Holland in a position where he needed a homerun offseason --

Holland struck out on three pitches. Swung at a fastball. Watched a curveball for a strike. And then watched a fastball come right down the pipe and didn't even swing at it.
I think he was already walking back to the dugout before the third pitch was even thrown. F-

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Old
09-15-2012, 09:43 AM
  #59
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Went with a C. It wasn't a great offseason, but I don't think it's Holland's fault that we didn't land Parise or Suter.

Lost:
Lidstrom
Stuart
Hudler
Holmstrom
Conklin

Added:
Samuelsson
Brunner
Tootoo
Gustavsson
Colaiacovo

Resigned:
Helm
Abdelkader

Promoted:
Nyquist
Smith

Players who I think will improve:
Cleary
Nyquist
Smith

Players who may regress:
Bertuzzi

Overall:
Forward corps: Slight improvement----I think the addition of Brunner, Samuelsson, Tootoo, and Nyquist more than offsets the loss of Hudler and Holmstrom. Sure, Datysuk & Zetterberg will be a year older, but Tootoo is young, Brunner has potential, Cleary might rebound, and I can't wait to see what Nyquist will do.

Defense corps: Slight regression----I don't think the addition of Smith and Colaiacovo will be enough to offset the loss of Lidstrom and Stuart, but it's not like our defense will be absolutely horrible either. We still have three solid defense pairings. Smith v. Stuart is a wash, with Smith having more offensive potential than Stuart but also being a rookie. Colaiacovo v. Lidstrom...umm...not so much.

Goaltending----Clear improvement: I'll take Gustavsson over Conklin any day! With a new goaltending coach, I think Gustavsson still has 1A potential. That's more than can be said of Conklin.


Last edited by claudetheturtle: 09-15-2012 at 02:12 PM.
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Old
09-15-2012, 12:50 PM
  #60
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I wish my teachers in school would have graded as easy as some of you.

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Old
09-15-2012, 01:23 PM
  #61
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I mean, even if I grant the forwards improved slightly and defensively we got only a little worse (which is laughable), the problem is still that we got trounced in the first round of the playoffs and we didn't get better.

You need to get better to win. These are the Detroit Red Wings. It might be spoiled of me to see playoffs as a given and the Cup as the goal every year, but that's what I expect dammit. Just making the playoffs isn't good enough. And this squad... it's not improved enough to go deep, even if I generously look at all the off-season going ons.

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Old
09-15-2012, 01:23 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snailderby View Post
Went with a C. It wasn't a great offseason, but I don't think it's Holland's fault that we didn't land Parise or Suter.

Lost:
Lidstrom
Stuart
Hudler
Holmstrom
Conklin

Added:
Samuelsson
Brunner
Tootoo
Gustavsson
Colaiacovo

Resigned:
Helm
Abdelkader

Promoted:
Nyquist
Smith

Players who I think will improve:
Cleary
Nyquist
Smith
Abdelkader

Players who may regress:
Bertuzzi

Overall:
Forward corps: Slight improvement----I think the addition of Brunner, Samuelsson, Tootoo, and Nyquist more than offsets the loss of Hudler and Holmstrom. Sure, Datysuk & Zetterberg will be a year older, but Tootoo is young, Brunner has potential, Cleary might rebound, and I can't wait to see what Nyquist will do.

Defense corps: Slight regression----I don't think the addition of Smith and Colaiacovo will be enough to offset the loss of Lidstrom and Stuart, but it's not like our defense will be absolutely horrible either. We still have three solid defense pairings. Smith v. Stuart is a wash, with Smith having more offensive potential than Stuart but also being a rookie. Colaiacovo v. Lidstrom...umm...not so much.

Goaltending----Clear improvement: I'll take Gustavsson over Conklin any day! With a new goaltending coach, I think Gustavsson still has 1A potential. That's more than can be said of Conklin.
Good post - I agree. Much of what could have made this off-season better wasn't in our control.

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Old
09-15-2012, 01:46 PM
  #63
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I am expecting a decent drop off in the offense since the Wings only have Kronwall who can move the puck half as good as Lidstrom was able to.

The only decent PMD the Wings have is Kronwall. Smith is probably gonna have a rough year. The defense would be looking a lot better if Holland didnt decide to stash Smith in GR for another year. Now he has a trial by fire with no Lidstrom. It was a big mistake by Holland.

I feel the same way about Nyquist, but he didnt look half as ready as Smith did last year.

I am not even sure if the Wings even have enough personnel to be a puck possession team anymore. The loss of talent which has been replaced with bums has been pretty significant over the past three years. Seeing Z and Datsyuk pass the puck in the offensive zone and two seconds later the puck has been turned over was one of the most frustrating things to watch last year.

I really hope i am wrong about everything i have said this offseason. I would love to eat this particular crow.


Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 09-15-2012 at 01:53 PM.
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Old
09-15-2012, 02:24 PM
  #64
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All things considered, C. The number of D and F votes is a testament to just how well Holland has done over the years. An F, to me, indicates it couldn't have been any worse. I guess some people have never seen a bad contract signed in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jroc86 View Post
Much of what could have made this off-season better wasn't in our control.
Agreed. I'm not sure some people acknowledge/appreciate/understand that point.

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Old
09-15-2012, 02:52 PM
  #65
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An F, to me, indicates it couldn't have been any worse.
Which school did you attend where the only way to earn a failing grade was to answer every question incorrectly?

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Old
09-15-2012, 03:01 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jroc86 View Post
I agree. Much of what could have made this off-season better wasn't in our control.
And he put himself in a situation where he was betting it all on this summer, and he didn't deliver. That is the more important part. He has been reactive and not proactive.

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Old
09-15-2012, 03:22 PM
  #67
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I'm going to give it a C. I don't think it's quite as bad as some people are making it out to be and here's why I think that:

1. Holland went all in on Suter and Parise. He obviously didn't get them but he really couldn't have done much more than he did though. They wanted to play together and they chose the Wild. We can't get everyone we want; there are 29 other teams. Plus, I don't think I'd even want either of them at that price. I don't know about everyone else but I'd prefer not to pay over 7.5 mill to players when they're in their late 30's (I guess this depends on the new CBA but that's still a pretty huge risk).

2. We did have some pretty solid signings. Brunner is young and considered one of the better players in the world outside of the nhl. Tootoo adds grit which is something we really lack. Sure he doesn't make us a completely tough team, but some is better than none. Gustavsson, despite being pretty awful the last couple of years, has some solid potential. There's a reason he had a lot of suitors when he was choosing a team like three or four years ago. If he pans out, great. If not, we can always bring up MacDonald who's been pretty solid for us the last couple years. I also like the signing of Coliacavo. Sure he's not an amazing defensive player that we need, but he is an nhl defenseman. Before signing him we only had 6. I don't see anything bad that can come out of signing him.

3. I think the supposed need for a top six winger was much more of a want imo. We were seventh in the league for goals last year. Cleary needed surgery and was pretty useless without it. He should be close to his form from two years ago this year hopefully. Plus people seem to be forgetting that we may not have signed a clear cut but we did sign two who have the potential to play there. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, and Franzen are locks. Between Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Nyquist, and Brunner our top six will be fine. With so many options for the bottoms six, it should be solid as well.

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Old
09-15-2012, 04:01 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
All things considered, C. The number of D and F votes is a testament to just how well Holland has done over the years. An F, to me, indicates it couldn't have been any worse. I guess some people have never seen a bad contract signed in the NHL.
A "C" is average. In other words "did not improve, but did not get worse". Yes, Lidstrom retired. But everyone has been expecting that the past few years; Holland should have been more prepared instead of having to bet on the one UFA defenseman who could do something about the gap left by Nick.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
I'm going to give it a C. I don't think it's quite as bad as some people are making it out to be and here's why I think that:

1. Holland went all in on Suter and Parise. He obviously didn't get them but he really couldn't have done much more than he did though. They wanted to play together and they chose the Wild. We can't get everyone we want; there are 29 other teams. Plus, I don't think I'd even want either of them at that price. I don't know about everyone else but I'd prefer not to pay over 7.5 mill to players when they're in their late 30's (I guess this depends on the new CBA but that's still a pretty huge risk).
He went all-in on them, and he didn't explore other options. He saved space for them in case they accepted his offer and it cost him the ability to sign other skilled players.

Quote:
2. We did have some pretty solid signings. Brunner is young and considered one of the better players in the world outside of the nhl. Tootoo adds grit which is something we really lack. Sure he doesn't make us a completely tough team, but some is better than none. Gustavsson, despite being pretty awful the last couple of years, has some solid potential. There's a reason he had a lot of suitors when he was choosing a team like three or four years ago. If he pans out, great. If not, we can always bring up MacDonald who's been pretty solid for us the last couple years. I also like the signing of Coliacavo. Sure he's not an amazing defensive player that we need, but he is an nhl defenseman. Before signing him we only had 6. I don't see anything bad that can come out of signing him.
The Tootoo signing was a great sign. Brunner and Monster could be. I'm happy with Carlo, he is a solid depth defenseman who can fit anywhere from #4 to #7.

Quote:
3. I think the supposed need for a top six winger was much more of a want imo. We were seventh in the league for goals last year. Cleary needed surgery and was pretty useless without it. He should be close to his form from two years ago this year hopefully. Plus people seem to be forgetting that we may not have signed a clear cut but we did sign two who have the potential to play there. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, and Franzen are locks. Between Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Nyquist, and Brunner our top six will be fine. With so many options for the bottoms six, it should be solid as well.
The Wings absolutely needed to sign a top-six winger. You are forgetting that they lost Hudler. When your top-six winger comes up for a contract, you either keep him or replace him with someone equal or better. Holland didn't do that. Nyquist and Brunner could become better than Hudler, but they aren't right now. The main improvement the top six might see is if Cleary is as healthy as he was two years ago and playing the way he did. That would make up for the scoring lost with Hudler.

The bottom six is improved, but the top six and the defense are worse. backup goaltending might be better or worse, depending on what kind of season Gustavsson gives us. MacDonald is pretty consistent in his output from year to year.

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Old
09-15-2012, 04:03 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
The only decent PMD the Wings have is Kronwall.
And White. And Smith. And Kindl. And Quincey. And Colaiacovo.

Quote:
I really hope i am wrong about everything i have said this offseason. I would love to eat this particular crow.
You were wrong about enough things just in that post...

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Old
09-15-2012, 04:05 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
I'm going to give it a C. I don't think it's quite as bad as some people are making it out to be and here's why I think that:

1. Holland went all in on Suter and Parise. He obviously didn't get them but he really couldn't have done much more than he did though. They wanted to play together and they chose the Wild. We can't get everyone we want; there are 29 other teams. Plus, I don't think I'd even want either of them at that price. I don't know about everyone else but I'd prefer not to pay over 7.5 mill to players when they're in their late 30's (I guess this depends on the new CBA but that's still a pretty huge risk).
He obviously did not go all in on Suter and Parise.


Quote:
2. We did have some pretty solid signings. Brunner is young and considered one of the better players in the world outside of the nhl. Tootoo adds grit which is something we really lack. Sure he doesn't make us a completely tough team, but some is better than none. Gustavsson, despite being pretty awful the last couple of years, has some solid potential. There's a reason he had a lot of suitors when he was choosing a team like three or four years ago. If he pans out, great. If not, we can always bring up MacDonald who's been pretty solid for us the last couple years. I also like the signing of Coliacavo. Sure he's not an amazing defensive player that we need, but he is an nhl defenseman. Before signing him we only had 6. I don't see anything bad that can come out of signing him.
Brunner is a complete shot in the dark
Tootoo is fine for your 4th line or third line. If we didn't have a glut of bottom 6 guys already in the lineup and a bottleneck of prospects waiting to join the team, this would be a a nice signing.
CC is so good that St. Louis didn't want to keep him. Ringing endorsment.


Quote:
3. I think the supposed need for a top six winger was much more of a want imo. We were seventh in the league for goals last year. Cleary needed surgery and was pretty useless without it. He should be close to his form from two years ago this year hopefully. Plus people seem to be forgetting that we may not have signed a clear cut but we did sign two who have the potential to play there. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, and Franzen are locks. Between Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Nyquist, and Brunner our top six will be fine. With so many options for the bottoms six, it should be solid as well.
Dreaming.
Cleary is going to be bounce back at 34-35?
Lord.

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Old
09-15-2012, 04:09 PM
  #71
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All the C voters ---
Last year was a C-
The year before was a C or D.
This year? Our team is worse than it was last year, more cap room and more prospects to move.
And at the same time, we're doing a poor job bringing up prospects and putting them in the lineup.

And thanks to the resigning of Bertuzzi and Sammy and now CC, we're lpotentially going to waste a season for Nyuist and Tatar and maybe Smith or Kindl, too.

F stands for Failure. Holland has earned it.

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Old
09-15-2012, 04:24 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post


He went all-in on them, and he didn't explore other options. He saved space for them in case they accepted his offer and it cost him the ability to sign other skilled players.
Well the Wings were considered the front runner for them or at least one of the top teams for them, especially Suter. Of course he's going to wait on their decisions.

Quote:
The Tootoo signing was a great sign. Brunner and Monster could be. I'm happy with Carlo, he is a solid depth defenseman who can fit anywhere from #4 to #7.
Adding a young, skilled player with a lot of potential is never really a bad thing. Basically the same thing for Gustavsson. If they don't work out, they don't and it really doesn't affect us. They're smart signings imo.

Quote:
The Wings absolutely needed to sign a top-six winger. You are forgetting that they lost Hudler. When your top-six winger comes up for a contract, you either keep him or replace him with someone equal or better. Holland didn't do that. Nyquist and Brunner could become better than Hudler, but they aren't right now. The main improvement the top six might see is if Cleary is as healthy as he was two years ago and playing the way he did. That would make up for the scoring lost with Hudler.
Isn't Samuelsson supposed to be the replacement for Hudler? Everyone hated the signing at first (including myself), but I think he's a capable replacement. Cleary really can't do much worse than last year, I think he will at least improve a little. Zetterberg also had a pretty poor first half. I think he'll be better next year. A lot of it really depends on injuries.

Quote:
The bottom six is improved, but the top six and the defense are worse. backup goaltending might be better or worse, depending on what kind of season Gustavsson gives us. MacDonald is pretty consistent in his output from year to year.
I think the top six could be better than it was last year. If Nyquist plays like he did last year with Datsyuk (6 pts in 7 games, solid chemistry) last year in the top six this year I think he'll be an upgrade over Hudler. Defense is definitely worse obviously.

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Old
09-15-2012, 04:26 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
And White. And Smith. And Kindl. And Quincey. And Colaiacovo.



You were wrong about enough things just in that post...
I don't think they are good. I already mentioned smith.

White is incredibly average along with the rest of the wings defense.

Now kindl is a good PMD.......absolutely laughable. You either have low standards or no standards at all.

Wings are adding rejects to the roster like CC.

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Old
09-15-2012, 04:32 PM
  #74
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He obviously did not go all in on Suter and Parise.
By all in I meant that they were his only options. He didn't really have much of a back-up plan if one at all. I didn't mean he was going to offer whatever it took to get them here. I'm glad he didn't do that.


Quote:
Brunner is a complete shot in the dark
Tootoo is fine for your 4th line or third line. If we didn't have a glut of bottom 6 guys already in the lineup and a bottleneck of prospects waiting to join the team, this would be a a nice signing.
CC is so good that St. Louis didn't want to keep him. Ringing endorsment.
Brunner may turn out to be a good player, or he might not. You can't deny that it was smart to sign him. I'm sure almost every other GM would've done the same thing if he chose their team instead. CC might not be great, but going into the season with only 6 defensemen is just crazy.


Quote:
Dreaming.
Cleary is going to be bounce back at 34-35?
Lord.
Why can't Cleary bounce back? He needed surgery almost all year, of course he wasn't going to have a great year. I'm not expecting a 35 goal season or something. 20 - 25 is definitely realistic though.

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Old
09-15-2012, 04:34 PM
  #75
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Cleary won't bounce back because he will need another surgery two weeks after the season starts. He just can't stay healthy any more. His style of play is very physically demanding and unfortunately age has caught up to him.

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