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Old
09-14-2012, 05:37 PM
  #326
King Woodballs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1g View Post
Doan signs with the Coyotes and gets a signing bonus.......and you chumps believe the owners are broke?
Who ever said they believed the owners are broke?

And the coyotes needed to make floor anyways

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09-14-2012, 05:55 PM
  #327
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The League, The PA... And us.

I can't believe the nerve of these two sides.

How many times have we heard them trying to compare this whole CBA situation to a situation that you or i would be in.

"How would you like it if your boss was trying to take 11% of your money?"

This is a total crock! We are the ones that drive this whole industry! Without us, this League doesn't exsist.

I still paid for my season tickets! I've still sacrificed my money for the League. This is completely unacceptable!

If a mass group of people we're to stand up and boycott the NHL, you would see Gary and Donald with zero power.

Play Hockey, because WE (the ones who pay you) want you to.

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Old
09-14-2012, 05:55 PM
  #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1g View Post
Doan signs with the Coyotes and gets a signing bonus.......and you chumps believe the owners are broke?
The owners have plenty of money they just aren't willing to lose it on a yearly basis by owning a hockey team, at least most anyways...

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Old
09-14-2012, 05:59 PM
  #329
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The problem is we will all come crawling back, and we know it. Even after 5 lockouts.

Maybe i'll just stop buying merchandise for a few weeks, THAT'LL TEACH EM.

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Old
09-14-2012, 06:01 PM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
Thoughts...

- The average Canadian makes $1,713,000 in a 40 year career. The average NHL salary in 2011-2012 was $2.4 million. This is to PLAY A GAME!

- Revenue sharing needs to be eliminated completely. Teams should earn their own money. Can't make money? Move the team. This would eliminate the Atlanta/Florida/Nashville/Phoenix/etc type financial failures.

- Players have no right to complain about the league wanting to lower salaries. Not only are they horrendously overpaid, but they also have other options. Don't like what the NHL is willing to pay? Go to the KHL.
I personally don't have an issue with revenue sharing done right - I love seeing the game grow, and as it's my favorite sport to watch, I want a healthy league that consists of more than just the O6 + some of the bigger market teams. Even though TNSE has a good plan, if it's only about growing revenue, it'll be difficult for most of the Canadian and smaller market US teams to compete.

That said, there has to be a middle ground - the NHL and NHLPA aren't there yet.

Just MO.

PS: I agree with your #1 and #3 points.

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Old
09-14-2012, 06:09 PM
  #331
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I don't think the league, or players, are too worried about the fans in Canada. We love the game.

I think they would be - or should be - worried about fans in non-traditional hockey markets (read: Gary's sunbelt teams) as those fans or businesses may find an alternative place to spend their money, and more importantly, their sponsorship dollars in a weakened economy in the US.

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Old
09-14-2012, 06:15 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StaticPrevails View Post
The problem is we will all come crawling back, and we know it. Even after 5 lockouts.

Maybe i'll just stop buying merchandise for a few weeks, THAT'LL TEACH EM.
This in here lies the problem.
I have been saying it for ages now
Do to hockey what fans did to baseball

Kick both theses *******s in the teeth for more then a week

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Old
09-14-2012, 06:27 PM
  #333
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Nice idea.
Totally impossible.
A boycott of that scale just isn't gonna happen.

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09-14-2012, 06:47 PM
  #334
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I started this thread in a fit of rage. I've calmed down some now.

I just seriously can't believe that we got the Jets back, now we have to wait.. again.

I hope this is the final push, and Gary's sunbelt dream finally dies, it's already been slow and painful.

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Old
09-14-2012, 06:48 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
Nice idea.
Totally impossible.
A boycott of that scale just isn't gonna happen.
Baseball fans showed they were fed up by not going back to games (Although it did cause the death of the Expo's), Hockey fans should do the same. Boycotting merchandise only hurts the business you buy it from.

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Old
09-14-2012, 06:50 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPsauce View Post
I started this thread in a fit of rage. I've calmed down some now.

I just seriously can't believe that we got the Jets back, now we have to wait.. again.

I hope this is the final push, and Gary's sunbelt dream finally dies, it's already been slow and painful.
How is this Gary's fault again? This is Fehr and the Owners, Bettman is just the voice of the owners, he does what they want.

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Old
09-14-2012, 06:59 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
Nice idea.
Totally impossible.
A boycott of that scale just isn't gonna happen.
If it can happen in baseball if can happen in hockey.

But you are right it wont.

People will just complain about the nhl but wont do anything about it

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Old
09-14-2012, 07:30 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
Thoughts...

- The average Canadian makes $1,713,000 in a 40 year career. The average NHL salary in 2011-2012 was $2.4 million. This is to PLAY A GAME!

- Revenue sharing needs to be eliminated completely. Teams should earn their own money. Can't make money? Move the team. This would eliminate the Atlanta/Florida/Nashville/Phoenix/etc type financial failures.

- Players have no right to complain about the league wanting to lower salaries. Not only are they horrendously overpaid, but they also have other options. Don't like what the NHL is willing to pay? Go to the KHL.
You'd also have the league fold most likely. I mean, only 11 teams made money last year. Not sure what you're going to do with a league that will contract until nothing is left.

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Old
09-14-2012, 07:47 PM
  #339
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A promising season going down the tubes. Color me frustrated. The novelty of using the NHL labour (non-) talks as relevant case studies in class is turning into frustration with realizing that it's no hockey for a while. Bettman is great mercenary for the owners. He also cares so little about the actual game itself. I think that shows itself in how he conducts himself for public presentation. He doesn't act in a collaborative manner and he talks holding firm rather than working to a resolution. The players are well-spoken for and seem united in their holding the line of the last CBA goodies they still have. The fact that they made a farce of the CBA process by waiting until the last minute to start talking is irritating and not consistent with the spirit of these agreements. Just complete frustration with both sides of the argument.

Looking forward to some great WHL hockey this year.

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Old
09-14-2012, 08:08 PM
  #340
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Once Bogo is ready to play these two sides better be ready to get back to work

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Old
09-15-2012, 12:05 PM
  #341
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If the NHL/NHLPA wants to pull this crap then how about they pay back all the public funds pumped into areas and infrastructure. The fans pay double; emotionally and from the tax coffers.

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Old
09-15-2012, 12:29 PM
  #342
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What happens to STH's? I'm on the monthly plan. I'm guessing they just keep our money as a credit towards games later in the year or next year?

This sucks. My semi trailer frame just cracked, and I'm paying $700 a month for that, and $500 a month for jets tickets. $1200 a month for stuff I can't use.

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Old
09-15-2012, 02:06 PM
  #343
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Ok I was over on the main boards and a poster named Guest came up with a very creative idea for providing a solution that could ensure all teams have a shot at being profitable and competitive!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
I've been putting a lot of thought into this and I think I found a solution that addresses both sides. The players want their share, and the owners want the player salaries tied to revenues as part of a cap.

The big problem with the Cap as it is today is the wealthiest teams get the biggest advantage from the cap. Their 50% share is not actually being paid by the wealthiest teams, it's being partially paid by the poorest teams.

I will use the Forbes 2010 financials (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/31/...s-10_rank.html) as a basis for the analysis or model (note some changes as revenues have grown and Atlanta moved to Winnipeg). Based on that year the total revenue generated would have been $2.9B, and 50% of that would be $1.45B that would go to the players if they agreed on 50% in the expiring system or nearly $49M per team. The real problem is the disparity in revenue. Toronto tops the list at $187M in revenue, while the Islanders bottom out the list at $63M in revenue. The Islanders end up paying 77% ($49M share of $63M revenue) and Toronto ends up paying 26% ($49M share of $187M revenue). This is the problem in itself, and there is not sufficient enough revenue sharing to balance that.

My thought is that you find a baseline salary cap level where every NHL team can be profitable paying 50% of it's revenue to the players. Then you take 50% of the revenue of each team individually minus the salaries and put that in escrow to divide equally among the players.

The lowest revenue teams like Phoenix and New York Islanders generate about $65M a year in revenue. If you take 50% of that for $32.5M that is the new salary cap mid point. Say a range of $22.5M-42.5M for the salary cap.


PHP Code:
TEAM         2010 REVENUE      50REVENUE     CAP        ESCROW
TOR         
$187.0          $93.5          $32.5          $61.0 
MTL         
$163.0          $81.5          $32.5          $49.0 
NYR         
$154.0          $77.0          $32.5          $44.5 
PHI         
$121.0          $60.5          $32.5          $28.0 
CHI         
$120.0          $60.0          $32.5          $27.5 
DET         
$119.0          $59.5          $32.5          $27.0 
VAN         
$119.0          $59.5          $32.5          $27.0 
BOS         
$110.0          $55.0          $32.5          $22.5 
NJD         
$104.0          $52.0          $32.5          $19.5 
LAK         
$98.0          $49.0          $32.5          $16.5 
CGY         
$98.0          $49.0          $32.5          $16.5 
OTT         
$96.0          $48.0          $32.5          $15.5 
DAL         
$95.0          $47.5          $32.5          $15.0 
MIN         
$92.0          $46.0          $32.5          $13.5 
PIT         
$91.0          $45.5          $32.5          $13.0 
SJS         
$88.0          $44.0          $32.5          $11.5 
EDM         
$87.0          $43.5          $32.5          $11.0 
ANA         
$85.0          $42.5          $32.5          $10.0 
COL         
$82.0          $41.0          $32.5          $8.5 
WAS         
$82.0          $41.0          $32.5          $8.5 
BUF         
$81.0          $40.5          $32.5          $8.0 
STL         
$79.0          $39.5          $32.5          $7.0 
FLA         
$76.0          $38.0          $32.5          $5.5 
CBJ         
$76.0          $38.0          $32.5          $5.5 
TBL         
$76.0          $38.0          $32.5          $5.5 
CAR         
$75.0          $37.5          $32.5          $5.0 
NAS         
$74.0          $37.0          $32.5          $4.5 
ATL         
$71.0          $35.5          $32.5          $3.0 
PHX         
$67.0          $33.5          $32.5          $1.0 
NYI         
$63.0          $31.5          $32.5 
This way 50% of the revenues from EACH team goes to the players, so they get their share. The owners get cost certainty but the most wealthy owners finally have to pay their share. It's only fair, and I would imagine the majority of the owner would prefer to pay based on THEIR revenues not the league average revenues divided equally. The players get their share, everyone is happy (but the richest teams who suddenly have to pay 50% of their revenue instead of 25-30%).

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Old
09-15-2012, 02:10 PM
  #344
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This was a follow up post by Guest


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
I agree, I want to hear people slice and dice it. The idea was something I've been trying to develop and I know it's not perfect but I think it does more to address the issues of today. I think it's more of a long term solution than anything we've actually seen from either side and puts the league in the overall best health compared to past CBA's. Every market is viable when you base the cap on what can make them successful. Only the teams that can literally generate no revenue are problems but those are clearly problems no matter what the CBA.

For example, if you had to reduce the cap that much there would have to be a significant initial rollback of salary, but it would be a rollback only to balance the salary cap aspect. The players may have a hard time understanding that part and how they will actually get that money back as part of what I call the escrow process. It's basically a 35% rollback, but the players are not losing 35% of their income.

The more profitable owners rightfully should be more against it. Of course they would prefer the other owners in the league to pick up a higher percent of the player's share. It's an easy argument for the rest of the league to make however. The top 10 revenue generating teams (based on the Forbes 2010 numbers) would be the ones paying more under my proposal, but the bottom 20 would be very encouraging of the setup I would imagine.

What argument do the top revenue generating owners make against it? They shouldn't have to pay 50% of their revenues and the poorer teams should have to pay a higher percentage of 50%? It a very divisive deal for the owners so it has to be the PA's offer.


Last edited by Hammer Slammer: 09-15-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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09-15-2012, 02:12 PM
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
Thoughts...

- The average Canadian makes $1,713,000 in a 40 year career. The average NHL salary in 2011-2012 was $2.4 million. This is to PLAY A GAME!
My random thoughts...
1)The people of the poorest countries in the world make ~$300 per year. The NHL could support 10 million of these poorest with the revenues they generate to support 700 hockey players and a few owners. This is about a small number of lucky people fighting over an obscene amount of money, so let's not sully the debate by talking about who's 'right and wrong' (see point 3).
2)The difference between 50% and 57% of HRR at current league revenues is ~ $200 million or 0.3 million per player/yr. By the PA's own growth estimates they could make that up in 2 years, so it'd be easy to phase in a reduction over that time with NO PAIN to the players. Why are they not being counselled to do do? Which leads me to my final point...
3)I don't have a problem with Gary Bettman, because he's a hard-assed pri** and everyone knows it. Donald Fehr, on the other hand, is a slick, smooth-tongued salesman, who can run rhetorical circles around his flock of players. I don't trust him to do the best for them, because he has got them thinking this is about 'right and wrong', when it is much different than that. It's not a moral issue and, for most of them, the risk of losing a year of a fleeting career is far higher than the risk of a slightly smaller slice of a humongous pie. I honestly do not believe that the players are mature and sophisticated enough to see this. Too bad.

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09-15-2012, 02:21 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
What happens to STH's? I'm on the monthly plan. I'm guessing they just keep our money as a credit towards games later in the year or next year?

This sucks. My semi trailer frame just cracked, and I'm paying $700 a month for that, and $500 a month for jets tickets. $1200 a month for stuff I can't use.


Good question.. would they ever consider a refund for the money you've paid off for this years tickets? Are they going to keep charging you $500/month while they are locked out?!

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Old
09-15-2012, 03:42 PM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
My random thoughts...
3)I don't have a problem with Gary Bettman, because he's a hard-assed pri** and everyone knows it. Donald Fehr, on the other hand, is a slick, smooth-tongued salesman, who can run rhetorical circles around his flock of players. I don't trust him to do the best for them, because he has got them thinking this is about 'right and wrong', when it is much different than that. It's not a moral issue and, for most of them, the risk of losing a year of a fleeting career is far higher than the risk of a slightly smaller slice of a humongous pie. I honestly do not believe that the players are mature and sophisticated enough to see this. Too bad.
I wish I could remember what sportscaster and what network it was on, but...
There was a bunch of them talking about the negotiations a few days ago.

One of the sportscasters said something about the last lockout in regards to him (and other players). It was along the lines of: when we players made a stand against the owners was more about principles
Another newscaster followed with: was it worth it?
He replied: Not at all

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Old
09-15-2012, 08:17 PM
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I wish I could remember what sportscaster and what network it was on, but...
There was a bunch of them talking about the negotiations a few days ago.

One of the sportscasters said something about the last lockout in regards to him (and other players). It was along the lines of: when we players made a stand against the owners was more about principles
Another newscaster followed with: was it worth it?
He replied: Not at all
Yea if there is one thing I am struck by it's that Fehr is doing a great job of selling (to the players especially) how the players gave at the office last time around to fix the system and that is a very accurate statement but it doesn't tell the full picture. the players definatley gave it up big time initially in the the first few years of the current deal but as time progressed the system ended up working out really well for the players with 57% of rapidly increasing HRR and not well for about 20 of the owners and so here we are. Don has done a nice job selling his guys so far now we shall see the resolve of the players and owners when the paychecks and revenue streams dry up.

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09-16-2012, 12:08 PM
  #349
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The thing that really pisses me off about this whole process is the posturing. Whether or not you are pro owners or players, the lack of meetings has been nothing short of obscene.

It's like 2 teenagers who really really like each other, but don't want to admit it because they don't want to seem desperate so they are both acting totally aloof and think the other doesn't really like them.

The fact that they weren't meeting 8 hours a day, every day is a friggin shame. The fact that they weren't working around the clock as the deadline approached is pure stupidity.

50/50 split of HRR. Meaningful revenue sharing between teams. Boom. Done.

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09-16-2012, 07:34 PM
  #350
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Quote:
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...r-unemployment

If Bettman’s next offer gets worse, Fehr has hinted the players would “reconsider” their options and made it known they may ask to abolish the cap and return to a free market system.
Players can go **** themselves

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