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Old
09-16-2012, 01:48 AM
  #76
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
Srsly? 3 lockouts under one commissioner is unprecedented incompetence. No other commissioner in sports history comes close in that regard.

And loljustlol at whoever said this is 90% on the players. I'd say 80-90% on the owners. For f's sake, they are still signing guys to giant contracts minutes before voting to lock out
Including the NHL owned coyotes.

I'm not on either side. They both suck because they can't figure out how to split $3.3 billion. I just don't like the way Fehr negotiates. His stall tactics suck.

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09-16-2012, 04:04 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Still don't get the Bettman hate.
If the NHL would have hired a HOCKEY man instead of Basketball Jones...I doubt that we would have had ONE lockout...let alone three...

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Old
09-16-2012, 04:06 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by kingsfan28 View Post
The lockout was the 3rd story on NBC tonight, unlike KTTV 11 which buried it in the sports and had a lame poll that featured "Who cares?" option, which seemed to amusing the sports dork. I honestly don't think this dude could tell the difference between a hockey puck and a tennis ball.
I wonder how long it would take him to open it up if it was given to him...

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Old
09-16-2012, 05:35 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
At least the kings are still young. Losing gagne and Penner gives the kids a better shot next season. Toffoli gets a year in the AHL without worrying about making the NHL, helps the kings know if he has a shot at the NHL in 2013. Voynov gets to play top line minutes.

It sucks that Muzzin and hickey can't play in the AHL. Maybe they will go to Europe.
Sounds like guys signed to two-way contracts that were on a AHL clear day roster last year will be eligible to sign AHL contracts now that the lockout is official. Both Hickey and Muzzin were on the clear day roster last year. Richard Clune, Marc-Andre Cliche and Andrew Campbell are in similiar situations, all 5 guys should be able to sign AHL contracts and start the season in the AHL.

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09-16-2012, 07:42 AM
  #80
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I blame 'em all! FU you greedy MoFo's! Every last one of ya! Its going to be a long winter man! Norfolk Admirals, here I COME!

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Old
09-16-2012, 08:25 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
Srsly? 3 lockouts under one commissioner is unprecedented incompetence. No other commissioner in sports history comes close in that regard.

And loljustlol at whoever said this is 90% on the players. I'd say 80-90% on the owners. For f's sake, they are still signing guys to giant contracts minutes before voting to lock out
You think Bettman is driving the owner's wishes? "Srsly?"

Perhaps you are misplacing blame for the owner's original offer, which was ridiculous on its face. Bettman has nothing to gain by the owner's position. The relationship between the owners and the players is the collective personalities of the owners in this particular league, and has nothing to do with the commissioner.

The commissioner is an easy target and again I just think its totally visceral. You guys are laying blame at the wrong guy's feet simply because you don't like the guy.

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Old
09-16-2012, 08:25 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZZIE King View Post
If the NHL would have hired a HOCKEY man instead of Basketball Jones...I doubt that we would have had ONE lockout...let alone three...
Not sure if its putting too much emphasis on one single guy

Bettman talks for the owners but ultimately all the owners are rich and very savvy multi-million or multi-billionaires. Most of the owners are successful businessmen and they know what it takes to make good business. I don't think Bettman going behind the scene and telling them what to do will fly if the owners don't believe it in the first place

The players on the other hand are much more susceptible to getting manipulated IMO. Lets face it, they are great athletes but most of them don't know first thing about business. So they rely on Union and Agents to "tell" them how much they are gaining or losing from very complicated proposals.

To be honest I'm more scared of Agents than Bettman. They have much to gain or lose from commission and little to lose from player getting locked out. They will whisper behind players ears to fight out the owners to the end

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Old
09-16-2012, 09:33 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Kingler View Post
Not sure if its putting too much emphasis on one single guy

Bettman talks for the owners but ultimately all the owners are rich and very savvy multi-million or multi-billionaires. Most of the owners are successful businessmen and they know what it takes to make good business. I don't think Bettman going behind the scene and telling them what to do will fly if the owners don't believe it in the first place

The players on the other hand are much more susceptible to getting manipulated IMO. Lets face it, they are great athletes but most of them don't know first thing about business. So they rely on Union and Agents to "tell" them how much they are gaining or losing from very complicated proposals.

To be honest I'm more scared of Agents than Bettman. They have much to gain or lose from commission and little to lose from player getting locked out. They will whisper behind players ears to fight out the owners to the end
Good analysis.

This is the point I was trying to make earlier. Bettman really doesn't have a stake in this...he basically speaks for the owner's position. If you just analyze it rather than have a knee-jerk reaction to the whole process, basically you do find where the issues are.

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Old
09-16-2012, 09:36 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZZIE King View Post
If the NHL would have hired a HOCKEY man instead of Basketball Jones...I doubt that we would have had ONE lockout...let alone three...
The difference between the two sports has nothing to do with the collective personalities of the owners of the two sports. And it sure doesn't have anything to do with whomever occupies the commissioner's seat at the time. You could have had Jesus Christ in that seat and there still would have been three lockouts.

Even then, it is a poor comparison. The NBA has had two lockouts during the same time frame. And in the last 20 years, each of the four major sports has had at least one work stoppage (strike or lockout). It's going to happen.

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Old
09-16-2012, 11:18 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZZIE King View Post
If the NHL would have hired a HOCKEY man instead of Basketball Jones...I doubt that we would have had ONE lockout...let alone three...
I don't think that's at all fair to say.


So you are justifying people hating him because of what could have been? And maybe would have ended up the same with another commissioner? And it's not like Bettman ALONE makes these decisions. He is the mouthpiece...the lawyer..if you will...of the owners. They ultimately have the say in what happens. If they all say, Gary this looks good, he isn't going to say "MUAHAHA I AM BETTMAN AAAAH NO SEASON!"

He is a scapegoat to so much misdirected hatred of fans...he has so little to do with these decisions..

This is as much the players fault as it is the owners. Pretty much all the lockouts have been so. The NHLPA is a very difficult organization to work with. Just look at their negotiating history...even during this situation. They were asked to convene way back last year even..last offseason..and the stonewalled the NHL ALL THE WAY TO THIS SUMMER...then when they received an offer, it took them almost two months to respond with a counter offer?

Does this sound like a group that "Just wants to play hockey." ???

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Old
09-16-2012, 11:50 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
I don't think that's at all fair to say.


So you are justifying people hating him because of what could have been? And maybe would have ended up the same with another commissioner? And it's not like Bettman ALONE makes these decisions. He is the mouthpiece...the lawyer..if you will...of the owners. They ultimately have the say in what happens. If they all say, Gary this looks good, he isn't going to say "MUAHAHA I AM BETTMAN AAAAH NO SEASON!"

He is a scapegoat to so much misdirected hatred of fans...he has so little to do with these decisions..

This is as much the players fault as it is the owners. Pretty much all the lockouts have been so. The NHLPA is a very difficult organization to work with. Just look at their negotiating history...even during this situation. They were asked to convene way back last year even..last offseason..and the stonewalled the NHL ALL THE WAY TO THIS SUMMER...then when they received an offer, it took them almost two months to respond with a counter offer?

Does this sound like a group that "Just wants to play hockey." ???
Nobody hires Fehr if they just want to play.

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Old
09-16-2012, 12:07 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
People are giving Fehr way too much credit.

Baseball has so little labor disputes now cause; lots of owners are happy spending 30mill-50mill on payroll and collecting that luxury tax check.

If Baseball had a salary floor, They would have a lockout every single CBA till that Salary floor was gone. Or the competitive model changed.

Fehr is not the reason the Pirates suck, the owner is. There is a reason Baseball doesn't have a Salary Cap, It's because the majority of owners know it comes with a Salary floor.

Lots of owners in Baseball have discovered the dirty dark secret of; you can field a lousy team for decades, and fans will still show up to the ballpark.

After all, it is America's past time.
That's also why baseball is unwatchable. It's a 2-tier league, the haves and the have-nots.

And no, it's not "you can field a lousy team for decades," it's you can field a lousy team for decades "because you can't afford to pay like the top 6 - 8 teams, so why even bother trying?" I do NOT want that in the NHL - ever.

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Old
09-16-2012, 01:45 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
Srsly? 3 lockouts under one commissioner is unprecedented incompetence. No other commissioner in sports history comes close in that regard.

And loljustlol at whoever said this is 90% on the players. I'd say 80-90% on the owners. For f's sake, they are still signing guys to giant contracts minutes before voting to lock out
For the record, David Stern (commissioner of the NBA) has had 4 lockouts during his time as commissioner. And if he is still commissioner in 6 years, he could very well have a 5th lockout on his hands too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Stern

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Old
09-16-2012, 02:04 PM
  #89
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Even Patrick O'Neil has gotten a lockout gig, he's doing studio work for NFL on Fox.

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Old
09-16-2012, 05:39 PM
  #90
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I'm sure some of you have heard this podcast, but I thought i'd post it here because some very good points are made for both sides.

http://www.xmhomeice.com/onair_audio...%20MacLean.mp3

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Old
09-16-2012, 05:46 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Even Patrick O'Neil has gotten a lockout gig, he's doing studio work for NFL on Fox.
Think Heidi is doing sideline work as well.

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Old
09-16-2012, 06:45 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZJames View Post
For the record, David Stern (commissioner of the NBA) has had 4 lockouts during his time as commissioner. And if he is still commissioner in 6 years, he could very well have a 5th lockout on his hands too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Stern
2 of those were in the offseason and one of those lasted only hours. Games were lost twice.

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Old
09-16-2012, 06:59 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
2 of those were in the offseason and one of those lasted only hours. Games were lost twice.
Sorry Quattro, that's a weak comeback.

Conversely, he's had two, one in which only 50 games (out of 82) were played. The other was last season, 66 games were played. Both times, I remember how ridiculous the condensed season was.

Both of these guys were/are just pawns for the owners. Bettman gets blamed because he has to drag his sorry ass to the podium and make the announcement and get the grief from the press and fans. You don't see Phil Anschutz doing that, do you?

By the way, where is the hate on Phil? This guy just won the Stanley Cup three months ago and partied with the Kings players...now he is one of the votes (unanimous) that votes the lock to be clicked.




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Old
09-16-2012, 07:13 PM
  #94
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Looks like Tim Thomas picked a good year to take off. Doesn't look like he'll miss much.

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Old
09-16-2012, 08:06 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Even Patrick O'Neil has gotten a lockout gig, he's doing studio work for NFL on Fox.
More importantly, what will be Bailey's (the guy inside) job this fall? Ice Girls going to Hooter's?

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Old
09-16-2012, 08:13 PM
  #96
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Looks like Tim Thomas picked a good year to take off. Doesn't look like he'll miss much.
The NHL won't miss him either.

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Old
09-16-2012, 09:20 PM
  #97
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I am blaming the lockout on the new Prius

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Old
09-16-2012, 09:21 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Sorry Quattro, that's a weak comeback.

Conversely, he's had two, one in which only 50 games (out of 82) were played. The other was last season, 66 games were played. Both times, I remember how ridiculous the condensed season was.
lol - ok

Bettman's the only one to lose a whole season. I'm not excusing the owners. I hold them 90% responsible for this.

Part of Bettman's job is to be the interface between the owners and the players. He has failed miserably at that.

I'm not a traditional Bettman hater but this is the final straw for me. He doesn't even make an attempt have a reasonable relationship with the union, or anyone else for that matter. He is a failure.

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Old
09-16-2012, 09:30 PM
  #99
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lol - ok

Bettman's the only one to lose a whole season. I'm not excusing the owners. I hold them 90% responsible for this.

Part of Bettman's job is to be the interface between the owners and the players. He has failed miserably at that.

I'm not a traditional Bettman hater but this is the final straw for me. He doesn't even make an attempt have a reasonable relationship with the union, or anyone else for that matter. He is a failure.
You could not be more wrong. His job is to get the owners a better deal. He has done that every time and he will again. If the owners lose 10 mil this year but gain 5 million every after that, he has done a good job. Bettman is not their to make the players happy. He doesn't have to be their friend. He is there to fight the players union and interface with the business partners (Bridge stone, Coors, NBC) and make the owners happy. He only needs to care about the players as a product he is selling under the brand of the NHL. As far as his bosses think he is the best guy in the world and if/when he wins again they will be even happier.

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Old
09-16-2012, 09:30 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
lol - ok

Bettman's the only one to lose a whole season. I'm not excusing the owners. I hold them 90% responsible for this.

Part of Bettman's job is to be the interface between the owners and the players. He has failed miserably at that.

I'm not a traditional Bettman hater but this is the final straw for me. He doesn't even make an attempt have a reasonable relationship with the union, or anyone else for that matter. He is a failure.
And the Union's made an attempt at a reasonable relationship with the NHL?

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