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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXIX

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Old
09-16-2012, 04:44 PM
  #976
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
minor point, but drew doughty the second best player on last year's cup champs?
Shhh people get frustrated when you make good points that make them have to admit that the people they absolutely love on this team aren't necessarily as great as they wish they were. Afterall, we still are cupless and our team can't score in the playoffs. There's gotta be more than just "luck" to blame.

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Old
09-16-2012, 04:52 PM
  #977
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Except when they're talking about Luongo, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
minor point, but drew doughty the second best player on last year's cup champs?
For my money, he was the best player on the Kings.

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Old
09-16-2012, 04:56 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
For my money, he was the best player on the Kings.
It was Quick, hands down.

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Old
09-16-2012, 05:04 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
It was Quick, hands down.
I don't agree. Quick carried his team much more in the regular season than in the playoffs, IMO. While he was still great in the playoffs, he got all the help in the world that he needed from the guys in front of him. He didn't have to be brilliant.

Doughty played like a perfect defenseman.

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Old
09-16-2012, 05:05 PM
  #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
It was Quick, hands down.
Just to put things into perspective:

Quick won 1 more game in this years playoffs than Luongo did in the 2011 playoffs. Quick had the luxury of having a team giving him 2.85gf/game of offensive support. Luongo only had 2.42gf/game (and a large amount of those goals coming in 1 series, whereas Quick's offensive support was fairly consistent across all series).

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Old
09-16-2012, 05:15 PM
  #981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
I don't agree. Quick carried his team much more in the regular season than in the playoffs, IMO. While he was still great in the playoffs, he got all the help in the world that he needed from the guys in front of him. He didn't have to be brilliant.

Doughty played like a perfect defenseman.
Without Quick we would have beaten the Kings in games 3 and 5.

I wouldn't say the same about Doughty.

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Old
09-16-2012, 05:21 PM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Without Quick we would have beaten the Kings in games 3 and 5.

I wouldn't say the same about Doughty.
Disagree. We were badly outplayed all series. We only had something like 9 scoring chances in game 3...how are we going to win with that?

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Old
09-16-2012, 05:26 PM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
Lundqvist, Quick Thomas and Rinne are all clearly better.

Luongo is then in the next tier with a bunch of other guys. Elite are those 4 goalies, Luongo has slipped out of that group IMO.
Clearly better?

Thomas in 2011-12 - No (Thomas in 2010-11 - Yes.)
Rinne - No
Quick - 2011-12 yes, 2010-11 no
Lunqvist - 2011-12 yes, 2010-11 no

I'm pretty sure if Luongo played for another team exactly the same way he played for us, their Luongo would be clearly better in the eyes of some. Even last year Luongo only had one bad month October .869 which I'm prepared to ignore as the whole team played garbage. The rest - .924 .928 .932 .928 .921 - elite numbers and incredible consistency. His 2010-11 numbers are even freakier .907 .914 .922 .947 .923 .942, not bad considering the slow start from changing his style that year. Not to mention doing this in a in a system that bleeds high quality shots against.

But Luongo is inconsistent trash, everyone knows this........


Last edited by me2: 09-16-2012 at 05:49 PM.
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Old
09-16-2012, 05:44 PM
  #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Okay. Our forward group and defense corp are both slightly better. Quick-Schneider was a wash in the playoffs, but assuming the same play from them we are better.
Van - LA are pretty even imho.

We have the 2 best offensive players but their forward depth > ours. The problem with a shallow pool is our offense is 3 guys - Daniel, Henrik and Kesler. Daniel was out and Kesler was playing injured. Injuries + shallow pool = failed offense. How do you expect to beat a defensive powerhouse with just 1 offensive forward?

Their D is bolstered by their system, but how do you separate a D from it's system. I give them the edge defensively, maybe give our D the edge offensively due to our system.

Quick I think is protected by his D, but again how do you seperate out system. System+goalie - edge LA.


Last edited by me2: 09-16-2012 at 05:51 PM.
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Old
09-16-2012, 06:00 PM
  #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Disagree. We were badly outplayed all series. We only had something like 9 scoring chances in game 3...how are we going to win with that?
We outshot them by far and had posssession of the puck. By any objective measure our team played better than theirs apart from goaltending.

Plus just by watching I could tell we were playing better.

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09-16-2012, 06:07 PM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Just to put things into perspective:

Quick won 1 more game in this years playoffs than Luongo did in the 2011 playoffs.

Quick had the luxury of having a team giving him 2.85gf/game of offensive support. Luongo only had 2.42gf/game (and a large amount of those goals coming in 1 series, whereas Quick's offensive support was fairly consistent across all series).
Yes but Quick played much better throughout.

Luongo's
2.56 GAA / 0.914SV%

vs Quick's
1.41 GAA / 0.946SV%

Even with our abysmal 2.42GF if Luongo puts up Quick-like numbers we easily cruise to the Cup.

*Not blaming Luongo for the loss, just pointing out Quick's dominant performance.

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Old
09-16-2012, 07:03 PM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
We outshot them by far and had posssession of the puck. By any objective measure our team played better than theirs apart from goaltending.

Plus just by watching I could tell we were playing better.
Out shot?

Out possessed?

But still out chanced us and won th games.

Drew Doughty and Anze kopitar were better players through the run...Quick was the benefactor of an easy road and an unbelievable team with a great game plan in front of him.

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Old
09-16-2012, 07:07 PM
  #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Yes but Quick played much better throughout.

Luongo's
2.56 GAA / 0.914SV%

vs Quick's
1.41 GAA / 0.946SV%

Even with our abysmal 2.42GF if Luongo puts up Quick-like numbers we easily cruise to the Cup.

*Not blaming Luongo for the loss, just pointing out Quick's dominant performance.
Not going to get into a 2011 finals debate, but the difference between scoring chances against between the kings and Canucks was wide.

People act like Quick was tested.

I can't remember a game saving save he made in our first round series.

They hit him in the crest with 35+ shots a game.

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Old
09-16-2012, 07:26 PM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Without Quick we would have beaten the Kings in games 3 and 5.

I wouldn't say the same about Doughty.
Strongly disagree.

Personally, I find the whole "We could have beaten them if not for ____" thing kind of arrogant and stupid in this case, especially considering the awful awful performance put forth across the board (except for the goalies)

We would have been lucky to beat ANYONE with that first round effort, IMO. And we WERE lucky that it ever even looked like we were ever in it.


Last edited by Shareefruck: 09-16-2012 at 07:37 PM.
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Old
09-16-2012, 07:30 PM
  #990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
We outshot them by far and had posssession of the puck. By any objective measure our team played better than theirs apart from goaltending.

Plus just by watching I could tell we were playing better.
We must have been watching a different series then. It looked like boys vs. men to me.

On the other hand, unlike alot of people on these boards, from watching that series, I really think that even with the current group and no additional changes, we might have been able to get pretty far with a better effort (what was expected) alone.


Last edited by Shareefruck: 09-16-2012 at 07:40 PM.
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Old
09-16-2012, 07:45 PM
  #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Not going to get into a 2011 finals debate, but the difference between scoring chances against between the kings and Canucks was wide.

People act like Quick was tested.
Oh yes.

I don't think Luongo nor Quick's GAA/SV% are a true indicator of their respective play and I believe are heavily influenced by team defense.

The Kings played a remarkably tight defensive system all throughout their run.

Sutter's system was huge.

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09-16-2012, 09:55 PM
  #992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Shhh people get frustrated when you make good points that make them have to admit that the people they absolutely love on this team aren't necessarily as great as they wish they were. Afterall, we still are cupless and our team can't score in the playoffs. There's gotta be more than just "luck" to blame.
Or when they have to admit that players they consistently harp on had one of the hardest defensive roads to a cup final in recent history/realize different playoff match ups mean different outcomes & try to lay it off as "c'est la vie".


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Old
09-16-2012, 10:10 PM
  #993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Or when they have to admit that players they consistently harp on had one of the hardest defensive roads to a cup final in recent history/realize different playoff match ups mean different outcomes & try to lay it off as "c'est la vie".

Except other teams players had success against the teams that we played, so why couldn't we?

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Old
09-16-2012, 10:14 PM
  #994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
We must have been watching a different series then. It looked like boys vs. men to me.
I was referring to game 3, not the whole series. I agree as a whole we were outplayed.

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Old
09-16-2012, 10:26 PM
  #995
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I don't think Quick was ever that spectacular during their run. Just solid. Their team defense was incredible.

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09-16-2012, 11:13 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
I don't think Quick was ever that spectacular during their run. Just solid. Their team defense was incredible.
and remarkably healthy...

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09-16-2012, 11:30 PM
  #997
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And they faced a pretty mediocre group of offenses. 3 teams in the bottom half of the league in G/G and a snakebitten Canucks team. Remember how the Canucks only needed decent defense and goaltending to keep Nashville to under 2 G/G in a series? LA got that style of opposition all playoffs.

The Kings' ability to put up nearly 3 goals per game against the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 10th teams in GA/G impressed me more than anything Quick did.

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09-16-2012, 11:49 PM
  #998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
And they faced a pretty mediocre group of offenses. 3 teams in the bottom half of the league in G/G and a snakebitten Canucks team. Remember how the Canucks only needed decent defense and goaltending to keep Nashville to under 2 G/G in a series? LA got that style of opposition all playoffs.

The Kings' ability to put up nearly 3 goals per game against the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 10th teams in GA/G impressed me more than anything Quick did.
With Schneider in net they never got more than one goal in regulation...

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09-17-2012, 12:07 AM
  #999
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Clearly better?

Thomas in 2011-12 - No (Thomas in 2010-11 - Yes.)
Rinne - No
Quick - 2011-12 yes, 2010-11 no
Lunqvist - 2011-12 yes, 2010-11 no

I'm pretty sure if Luongo played for another team exactly the same way he played for us, their Luongo would be clearly better in the eyes of some. Even last year Luongo only had one bad month October .869 which I'm prepared to ignore as the whole team played garbage. The rest - .924 .928 .932 .928 .921 - elite numbers and incredible consistency. His 2010-11 numbers are even freakier .907 .914 .922 .947 .923 .942, not bad considering the slow start from changing his style that year. Not to mention doing this in a in a system that bleeds high quality shots against.

But Luongo is inconsistent trash, everyone knows this........
.... Rinne is better.

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09-17-2012, 12:24 AM
  #1000
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I'll make a new thread.

/closed.

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