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Who do you hope 'wins', the owners or players' union?

View Poll Results: Which side do you favor more?
On balance I hope that the owners get more of what they are asking 61 56.48%
On balance I hope that the players get more of what they are asking 35 32.41%
I hope that they both go to hell, I am never watching hockey again. 7 6.48%
There is a strike? Who cares, Bella and Edward broke up, OMG. 5 4.63%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-16-2012, 09:53 PM
  #151
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by Tafkak View Post
And what would stop Fehr and the NHLPA from going on strike right before the playoffs? In-fact I would wager large amounts of money in that happening if they continued to not reach an agreement.

Fehr and the MLBPA ruined that for the rest of the sports leagues and CBA talks when he pulled his stunt almost 20 years ago. The NHL would be idiotic to continue into the season without a CBA in place. Talks could/should have started in November or shortly thereafter when the NHL said they weren't going to extend this CBA.
Nothing - that's a chance the NHL would have to take. They obviously opted not to.

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09-16-2012, 10:05 PM
  #152
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I asked the question with no idea how the voting would go, and I mean that. That does not mean that I do not have an opinion.

For those mostly for the players, I have a question:

If the players 'win' and hockey becomes like baseball in the worst case scenerio, or even like the NBA, will you be alright with losing Malkin and other players that came up through the system to teams that are in big cities and can spend whatever they want on players? How will a change in the current cap system help us as fans keep a team like the Pens mostly together?

I kind of feel the same about this as I do about the teachers in Chicago. I admire teachers, think that their jobs are among the very important jobs, and overall love teachers, especially the very good ones. There are teachers like you saw in movies like Dead Poets Society. They mold the future of our country. So with that in mind, I still am in favor of the government in this dispute. In this economy making almost $80,000 for 3/4 of a year work, double most tax payers there, and turning down a 16% raise? It goes too far no matter how I feel about the profession. I feel the same about the players here. They have done so well under this system, and the system works for most fans in the NHL. I just can not get behind them no matter how much I like the players individually. Their goals in this one case go directly against mine.


Last edited by Jaded-Fan: 09-16-2012 at 10:12 PM.
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Old
09-16-2012, 10:11 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I asked the question with no idea how the voting would go, and I mean that. That does not mean that I do not have an opinion.

For those mostly for the players, I have a question:

If the players 'win' and hockey becomes like baseball in the worst case scenerio, or even like the NBA, will you be alright with losing Malkin and other players that came up through the system to teams that are in big cities and can spend whatever they want on players? How will a change in the current cap system help us as fans keep a team like the Pens mostly together?
I'm not familiar with the NBA CBA, other than that it has a 50/50 revenue split. What is it about their CBA that would be a doomsday scenario for Pittsburgh if the NHL adopted a system like it?

And there's no chance the NHL ends up with a deal like the MLB, so we might as well drop that idea.

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09-16-2012, 10:13 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I asked the question with no idea how the voting would go, and I mean that. That does not mean that I do not have an opinion.

For those mostly for the players, I have a question:

If the players 'win' and hockey becomes like baseball in the worst case scenerio, or even like the NBA, will you be alright with losing Malkin and other players that came up through the system to teams that are in big cities and can spend whatever they want on players? How will a change in the current cap system help us as fans keep a team like the Pens mostly together?

I kind of feel the same about this as I do about the teachers in Chicago. I admire teachers, think that their jobs are among the very important jobs, and overall love teachers, especially the very good ones. There are teachers like you saw in movies like Dead Poets Society. They mold the future of our country. So with that in mind, I still am in favor of the government in this dispute. In this economy making almost $80,000 for 3/4 of a year work, double most tax payers there, and turning down a 16% raise? It goes too far no matter how I feel about the profession. I feel the same about the players here. They have done so well under this system, and the system works for most fans in the NHL. I just can not get behind them no matter how much I like the players individually. Their goals in this one case go directly against mine.
I think most people in favor of the players are taking that stance with the assumption that the soft cap proposals and anything like it will be dropped by the time an agreement is reached. Basically, they support stronger revenue sharing as the main way to fix the financial issues instead of just taking all of the money to fix it from the players. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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09-16-2012, 10:15 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I'm not familiar with the NBA CBA, other than that it has a 50/50 revenue split. What is it about their CBA that would be a doomsday scenario for Pittsburgh if the NHL adopted a system like it?

And there's no chance the NHL ends up with a deal like the MLB, so we might as well drop that idea.
Heh, I watch basketball even less than I do baseball. But from what little I know they have a 'soft' cap with about a dozen exceptions where you can exceed the cap. Long and short of it is, and someone who watches basketball much more than I do maybe can say, but it seems that you can circumvent the cap to a degree. If so, I have a real issue with it.

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09-16-2012, 10:18 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I think most people in favor of the players are taking that stance with the assumption that the soft cap proposals and anything like it will be dropped by the time an agreement is reached. Basically, they support stronger revenue sharing as the main way to fix the financial issues instead of just taking all of the money to fix it from the players. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
If it ends up being only about revenue sharing, then fine as long as owners can make it work. I know in 2005 there were open books showing 2/3 of teams losing money and about to go under. It would depend on how many teams could not make it where my opinion would fall. By ANY change to the cap AND floor I would have an issue with. And until that actually is off the table, I am squarely in the owner's corner.

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09-16-2012, 10:20 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I'm not familiar with the NBA CBA, other than that it has a 50/50 revenue split. What is it about their CBA that would be a doomsday scenario for Pittsburgh if the NHL adopted a system like it?

And there's no chance the NHL ends up with a deal like the MLB, so we might as well drop that idea.
It's a soft cap with a lot of exceptions and variances that allow teams to go over the cap based on player tenure with the team and other instances. I'm not a fan of it, as the top-end talent is easily in the big market cities.

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09-16-2012, 10:20 PM
  #158
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http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

it sounds like the most common exception is basically a rule that would let us keep Crosby or Malkin without him counting against the cap.

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09-16-2012, 10:23 PM
  #159
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Owners. **** the players 57% revenue is absurd. Eliminating the salary cap? If that happens I actually will stop watching.

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09-16-2012, 10:36 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Heh, I watch basketball even less than I do baseball. But from what little I know they have a 'soft' cap with about a dozen exceptions where you can exceed the cap. Long and short of it is, and someone who watches basketball much more than I do maybe can say, but it seems that you can circumvent the cap to a degree. If so, I have a real issue with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tafkak View Post
It's a soft cap with a lot of exceptions and variances that allow teams to go over the cap based on player tenure with the team and other instances. I'm not a fan of it, as the top-end talent is easily in the big market cities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

it sounds like the most common exception is basically a rule that would let us keep Crosby or Malkin without him counting against the cap.
Thanks guys. I wouldn't really want anything like that.

I'd much prefer a system like the one I mentioned. The one thing I'd refuse to sign off on if I were a player is another rollback. Having money taken out of your pocket is the absolute worst.

The union's mantra of "no less than we already have" seems to echo that sentiment.

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09-16-2012, 10:39 PM
  #161
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as long as the cap doesn't get messed with, I really don't care.

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09-17-2012, 08:13 AM
  #162
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I kinda feel an abrupt rollback on salaries is sort of wrong. Especially with the whole bait and switch aspect of it, in that circumstance I certainly am on the side of the players. The problem though is that there is a problem and a solution has to be found. I think the 57% is a ridiculous amount. It should at the very least go down to 50% and the problem is how to do that without affecting current salaries.

My horrible solution that isnt well thought out is this. Make an exemption for the current contracts already out there. Make them have to be paid in full for their complete amount, basically honor them. But have their cap hit value reduced by a percentage to accurately reflect the new salary cap and the new limitations on contracts. Basically a grandfather system so while the big market teams will still maintain an advantage while it has those players and small market teams will still feel the pinch financially there at least will be help each and ever year from that point. I know it's too simplistic to work.

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09-19-2012, 10:46 AM
  #163
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I'd love a first game after the lockout with ALL empty arenas, NO fans at all for one game

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09-19-2012, 11:17 AM
  #164
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I'd love a first game after the lockout with ALL empty arenas, NO fans at all for one game
I see where you are going with this! A fan strike! really not a bad idea with the way we are being treated through this. It's kinda like them saying, "yeah we wanna play but this is a business". Oh yeah, we'll good luck trying to sell a product when you keep pissing off the customer.

But in all honestly if I just bought season tickets and already paid for the game, I'd probably go.

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09-20-2012, 11:10 PM
  #165
Jimmy LeRieux
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Love Hockey, Love the Pens. I am sure most players could make millions pimping cars, or shaving cream on TV or selling hockey equipment. I love paying 8.50 for a beer or 5.00 for a hotdog, and giving a day's pay to watch rich athletes skate around playing a game we have to pay to play. I guess i might be on the side of the owners on this one,,,,oh wait it is not politically correct for business to make a profit in the new USSA.

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