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Gillis: Potential Return For Luongo May Not Improve Canucks **Mod Warning #86**

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Old
09-16-2012, 10:12 PM
  #726
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
How's it logical when the bruins were addressed?

They were in a similar situation 2 years ago...Rask took the starters role and the vetera Tim Thomas was the backup.

The next season Tim Thomas won his job back, won the vezina, conn Smythe and the Stanley cup.

It's only logical when it fits your argument.
Combined Rask and THomas were 3M less than Luongo and Schneider are.

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09-16-2012, 10:13 PM
  #727
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If Florida and Toronto fans don't care why do they spend so much time in these luongo threads?

I know why Oiler fans are here.

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09-16-2012, 10:13 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
Short term pain for long term gain. Overpaying a forward for a couple seasons might end up being the price it costs to get that contract off the books.
If the forward coming back was an impact player like Luongo then it would be fine.

No harm in keeping Luongo until we get a better offer.
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Ya keeping Luongo might be the best bet.
Glad you've come to this realization.

We're a very good team already with cap space to add the missing piece.

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09-16-2012, 10:14 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Combined Rask and THomas were 3M less than Luongo and Schneider are.
Real dollars don't matter to the fans.

The Bruins are spending more on their goalies than the Canucks this season.

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09-16-2012, 10:15 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
How about RND 1 Game 3 2012 Stanley Cup playoffs!!!
Yeah it had nothing to do with trying to wake a team up that was down 0-3
If they believed he couldn't lead them to a Cup they wouldn't have started him in Game 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
Not if you can use $4,000,000 of that to fit other needs. Asset allocation! If Lack is ready and you can add a solid player or two, or one Top 6 type for that $4 million its a better way to go. Add a prospect or a pick as a bonus. But the saved salary is the TOP asset in the deal, not what you get back.
What we are getting in proposed deals wouldn't help fit our other needs. We don't need more 2/3 line weeners.

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09-16-2012, 10:18 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Real dollars don't matter to the fans.

The Bruins are spending more on their goalies than the Canucks this season.
Completely false.

Boston 8.5
Vancouver 9.333

Edit:

Sorry Thomas is sitting out so a Back-up very well might push BOS Goalie payroll higher than VAN's.

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09-16-2012, 10:20 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
What we are getting in proposed deals wouldn't help fit our other needs. We don't need more 2/3 line weeners.
You are missing my point. The $4 million gets allocated to ANOTHER transaction, whether free agency or another trade, it will not be used in the original trade of Luongo.

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09-16-2012, 10:21 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
You are missing my point. The $4 million gets allocated to ANOTHER transaction, whether free agency or another trade, it will not be used in the original trade of Luongo.
For example? There aren't any UFAs left.

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09-16-2012, 10:22 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Completely false.

Boston 9.375
Vancouver 9.333
Corrected.


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09-16-2012, 10:22 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Luongo started 50 games last year - if he returned to form a tandem with Schneider he likely plays roughly 40 games over a full season. His share of work wouldn't be much different than last years...

Impact roster players value always goes up throughout the regular season and peaks at the trade deadline, where astronomical returns are often found. Until teams find themselves in the thick of a playoff race they won't need to get aggressive on the trade front. Gillis knows this and also see's the benefit of keeping around 2 elite level netminders in case of injury and to avoid fatigue. Canuck management has spoken countless times in the past about keeping the starting goalies workload down and have designs on a long playoff run. It's easy to see the value in holding onto Luongo until teams make serious offers.
That statement is true. That said, I can't remember a single instance where a player with retirement-contract style, multiple years remaining on their contract was traded at the deadline for anything that would considered an astronomical return (the closest in recent memory: Nash, Rick). More often than not it is, soon to be UFA, rentals that are bringing back big returns around the trade deadline.

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09-16-2012, 10:23 PM
  #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
That statement is true. That said, I can't remember a single instance where a player with retirement-contract style, multiple years remaining on their contract was traded at the deadline for anything that would considered an astronomical return (the closest in recent memory: Nash, Rick). More often than not it is, soon to be UFA, rentals that are bringing back big returns around the trade deadline.
Jeff Carter would be the closest example.

Retirement style contract? Check
Multiple years left? Check
Deadline deal? Check

He returned a 1st + Jack Johnson.

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09-16-2012, 10:25 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
That statement is true. That said, I can't remember a single instance where a player with retirement-contract style, multiple years remaining on their contract was traded at the deadline for anything that would considered an astronomical return (the closest in recent memory: Nash, Rick). More often than not it is, soon to be UFA, rentals that are bringing back big returns around the trade deadline.
Rick Nash got 2 2nd line forwards, a top prospect, and a 1st. Luongo is better, on a cheaper cap hit, plays a more important position. The only thing against Luongo is his age, but goalies have longer shelf lives, so even that is mitigated.

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09-16-2012, 10:26 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
For example? There aren't any UFAs left.
If you are going to be patient now with Luongo why wouldn't you be patient with the money? Use it at the trade deadline to pick up someone else's salary issue, or at the draft, or next year's free agency. What ever makes the team better in the long run, not the short run.

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09-16-2012, 10:27 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
If you are going to be patient now with Luongo why wouldn't you be patient with the money? Use it at the trade deadline to pick up someone else's salary issue, or at the draft, or next year's free agency. What ever makes the team better in the long run, not the short run.
So until that happens, we'll keep Luongo unless we're paid fair value.

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09-16-2012, 10:31 PM
  #740
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Our AGM is brilliant with cap space.

I doubt we'll need to dump Luongo for a TDL deal.

Hell we cleared 4M last season with Ballard's "cap-cussion".

We had Edler on LTIR the season prior, allowing us to go over the cap after our TDL deals.

Trading Luongo for cap space at the deadline is downright moronic with Gilman and his history of cap space magic.

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Old
09-16-2012, 10:31 PM
  #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Yeah it had nothing to do with trying to wake a team up that was down 0-3
If they believed he couldn't lead them to a Cup they wouldn't have started him in Game 1
UM down 0-3?

They were only down 0-2.

Then Schneider played lights out against the best goalie in the League for the next three games.

Going back to the Chicago series the year before the writing on the wall has been steadily growing.

I can appreciate your love for Bobby Lou but as a Leafs fan I have seen many times where players get played due to their contract. Luongo has been beat out by a better player but with is deal the team needs to keep trotting him out there.

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09-16-2012, 10:32 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So until that happens, we'll keep Luongo unless we're paid fair value.
Then why offer him at all? If you wait WITH him you will never improve the team via that asset. Fair value MUST TAKE INTO ACCOUNT the length of the contract! It can't be purely a hockey decision for you. And the longer the tandem is kept the less valuable he becomes because either he gets tired of sitting/not playing enough to keep him happy or Schneider begins to want to get out because he can't get a fair chance at being number one. Either way time works against the franchise.

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09-16-2012, 10:32 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If and when we need the cap space we may do that. Until then we wil not be forced to move our elite goaltender unless someone gives us a reasonable incentive to do it.
This viewpoint/opinion flabbergasts me.

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09-16-2012, 10:35 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Corrected.

I'll give you this one.

still, BOS is spending only 50K more on goaltending with 5M of that sitting out the entire season.

Thomas' mental issues doesn't help you.

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09-16-2012, 10:35 PM
  #745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Jeff Carter would be the closest example.

Retirement style contract? Check
Multiple years left? Check
Deadline deal? Check

He returned a 1st + Jack Johnson.
You know I actually think this is totally a fair evaluation. But remember that Jack was basically starting to look like a bad contract for LA. So you can sum that up by saying something of questionable value plus something of significant value for Luongo. So for Florida I will re-iterate Kulikov + Theodore

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09-16-2012, 10:35 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Rick Nash got 2 2nd line forwards, a top prospect, and a 1st. Luongo is better, on a cheaper cap hit, plays a more important position. The only thing against Luongo is his age, but goalies have longer shelf lives, so even that is mitigated.
Don't forget that Rick Nash deal was gleefully panned by talking heads on blogs, podcasts and TV everywhere.

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09-16-2012, 10:35 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
Then why offer him at all? If you wait WITH him you will never improve the team via that asset. Fair value MUST TAKE INTO ACCOUNT the length of the contract! It can't be purely a hockey decision for you. And the longer the tandem is kept the less valuable he becomes because either he gets tired of sitting/not playing enough to keep him happy or Schneider begins to want to get out because he can't get a fair chance at being number one. Either way time works against the franchise.
Okay, we've stated our price. If you don't want to pay it(although "it" varies among Canucks fans) then we'll keep him. If we get an opportunity to snag Cory Perry at free agency and need cap space, we'll let you know(assuming Ballard, Raymond, Malhotra don't go first)

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09-16-2012, 10:37 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by porknbeans420 View Post
You know I actually think this is totally a fair evaluation. But remember that Jack was basically starting to look like a bad contract for LA. So you can sum that up by saying something of questionable value plus something of significant value for Luongo. So for Florida I will re-iterate Kulikov + Theodore
No Florida fan would do that. I'm not sure if you're confusing Kulikov with someone else or not. Personally I would easily do that.

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09-16-2012, 10:41 PM
  #749
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Jeff Carter would be the closest example.

Retirement style contract? Check
Multiple years left? Check
Deadline deal? Check

He returned a 1st + Jack Johnson.
Good catch.

Both players in the deal had 5+ years remaining on their deals.

Cap hits of both players were pretty high as well ($5,272,727 vs. $4,357,143).

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09-16-2012, 10:42 PM
  #750
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Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
Not if you can use $4,000,000 of that to fit other needs. Asset allocation! If Lack is ready and you can add a solid player or two, or one Top 6 type for that $4 million its a better way to go. Add a prospect or a pick as a bonus. But the saved salary is the TOP asset in the deal, not what you get back.
Maybe at the start of the UFA season, but right now there are none. Pretty much everybody who is anybody is signed. Might as well roll with 2 elite goalies since that is better than a $5m cap dump if only because of the insurance of one goalie getting one injured. Right now, wait and see is as good as anything else. As for saving it for the deadline, I don't think it matters at all now we are locked out.

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