HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Stanley Cup if There's a Lockout

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-11-2012, 12:54 AM
  #51
FlyersCup08
Registered User
 
FlyersCup08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
The cup was essentially misappropriated by the NHL in the 1920's. Of course now it has been in NHL hands for so long that it would be extremely difficult to legally challenge for it. The league controls it. The current trustees are former employees of the NHL and they will appoint new trustees when they move on.

The rules written in 1947 regarding a cup challenge are quite simple. In order for a team to issue a cup challenge they would have to be considered on par with an NHL team. A CHL team would not meet that standard and neither would an AHL at this time. However if the NHLPA set up teams of NHL players during the lockout and played a reasonable schedule they would definitely meet that standard.
And this would be the case if Euro teams were staffed with NHLers during a lockout...

FlyersCup08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 02:34 AM
  #52
Kane One
Global Moderator
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
 
Kane One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brooklyn, New NY
Country: United States
Posts: 27,508
vCash: 2860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Being a lawyer, I get itchy when you write that the trustees don't "have to" do something. I doubt the KHL (not being from the Dominion to start with) could play for it, but these trustees are obliged to follow a whole bunch of principles and fidutiary duties to ensure that Lord Stanley's intent with the trust is met. It's of course impossible to argue that putting the Cup away for a year in that sense is the best option if indeed a team did put in a challenge for the cup.

NHLs agreement with the trust is also doubtful, I would guess. It just ties the hands of the trustees to much, and I doubt such agreement is valid to be honest if tested under certain circumstances...
Apparently the trustees could allow another league to play for it if they want to, and the league would be their choice. So technically, they don't have to allow another league to play for it.

__________________
Kane One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 04:02 AM
  #53
nexttothemoon
Eight Straight
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,851
vCash: 50
So why couldn't the AHL change their limits on "vet players" rule policies and simply allow the teams to be comprised of all NHL players... at least for one season? The AHL would have very high quality teams and could play for the Cup.

nexttothemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 04:32 AM
  #54
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 55,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
So why couldn't the AHL change their limits on "vet players" rule policies and simply allow the teams to be comprised of all NHL players... at least for one season? The AHL would have very high quality teams and could play for the Cup.

PHPA wouldn't be too happy "loosing" members (as they guys nominally in the A would be in the E and/or C....). (They represent players in the AHL, ECHL and CHL.)

It was a "gentleman's agreement" that NHL players (and for that matter, even the refs/linesmen) would not play in AHL during lockout. I know of two NHL players who were in the ECHL during the lockout: Scott Gomez (for his "hometown" Alaska Aces) and Mark Smith (for the Victoria team).

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2012, 05:09 AM
  #55
Saintpatrick
Registered User
 
Saintpatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,389
vCash: 500
I'd love to see something like this happen just to spite Bettman and the greedy owners. That little weasel would throw a fit.

Saintpatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-16-2012, 03:55 PM
  #56
HighwayToHelm
Registered User
 
HighwayToHelm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 25
vCash: 500
lets take the stanley cup back to it's roots for just one year and have any team be able to challenge? haha could you imagine a 1600 team single elimination knock out tourney? it would be intense!!


Last edited by HighwayToHelm: 09-16-2012 at 04:41 PM.
HighwayToHelm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 01:41 AM
  #57
Hollywood3
Bison/Jet Fan
 
Hollywood3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,967
vCash: 500
Education time!

Here's the old thread:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=219978

Here are some old stories to read:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2036537

http://web.archive.org/web/200712160...53935&hubname=

http://www.lawyersweekly.ca/index.ph...e&articleid=94

Here is a list of trustees:

http://www.hhof.com/htmlSilverware/s...Trustees.shtml

Here is a 34 page legal article about it:

jeremydebeer.ca/images/Stanley%20Cup%20Case%20Study%20Scan.pdf

Here are Maclean's stories on it:

http://www2.macleans.ca/tag/free-stanley/

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/08/23/t...s-a-manifesto/

IMO, if this lockout lasts the trustees will be obligated to act. Since every other league has an existing competition, I would call for a new tournament. There are two great options:

1. Hockey Canada would work with AHAUS and the NHLPA to have an all-star tournament with regional all-star teams to play a mini-season followed by playoffs. This would be even better than the NHL.

2. Have the top 4 university teams in Canada and the USA play a tournament after exams. Exams are done in April, so have the tournament in May.

Hollywood3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 02:08 AM
  #58
madhi19
Registered User
 
madhi19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cold and Dark place!
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,183
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood3 View Post
1. Hockey Canada would work with AHAUS and the NHLPA to have an all-star tournament with regional all-star teams to play a mini-season followed by playoffs. This would be even better than the NHL.
"Provincial Tournament" I like that idea but will the NHLPA throw a fit at having American and European excluded from that mini competition. Maybe add Team America and Team Euro to the mix. Forget the mini-season and have a regular style NHL play-off. Canada got 12 provinces and territories for a 16 teams play-off you need to add 4 more so I say add US-East, US-West, Euro-East and Euro-West.

madhi19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 03:20 AM
  #59
KevFu
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans
Country: United States
Posts: 3,820
vCash: 500
If I were a locked out player, I'd call all the union player reps and create an Amateur team in Canada. Have open try outs. But naturally, all the NHL player reps would make the team; and we'd steamroll to the Cup.

Which be hilarious, because I'd put my amateur team in Hamilton and name them "Says Bettman Sucks" so we could see:

2011-12 Los Angeles Kings
2012-13 Hamilton Says Bettman Sucks

KevFu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 06:19 AM
  #60
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,640
vCash: 500
As far as I am concerned, the Cup is for the NHL. If there is no season and they decide to give it to the CHL or KHL or whoever, fine. However, I certainly will not recognize a jr team as Stanley Cup Champions.

patnyrnyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 07:22 AM
  #61
Evil Doctor
Army Recruit
 
Evil Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cambridge, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,179
vCash: 500
Ideally it should go to the top Senior team in Canada. It's what the Allen Cup now represents, but it was who competed for the Stanley Cup before the professionals took over...

Evil Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 07:39 AM
  #62
Shrimper
Trick or ruddy treat
 
Shrimper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 68,713
vCash: 50
Seeing all the winners of the various leagues fight for it would be good but would probably prolong the season too long.

Shrimper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 08:31 PM
  #63
Hollywood3
Bison/Jet Fan
 
Hollywood3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
"Provincial Tournament" I like that idea but will the NHLPA throw a fit at having American and European excluded from that mini competition. Maybe add Team America and Team Euro to the mix. Forget the mini-season and have a regular style NHL play-off. Canada got 12 provinces and territories for a 16 teams play-off you need to add 4 more so I say add US-East, US-West, Euro-East and Euro-West.
Not all provinces could ice a team on their own. And I don't believe that NWT or Yukon have a player in the NHL. Nunavut has Tootoo. So it would have to be regional. And AHAUS could come up with boundaries for the USA. I would think that no European countries would enter national teams without their European based players. So Euros could be drafted to one of the regional teams.

Hollywood3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 09:33 PM
  #64
deckercky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,659
vCash: 500
I'd say make a rule that's something like each region gets to draft 3 players from their region, and a standard draft occurs after including US and Euro players.

deckercky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 10:07 PM
  #65
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 21,749
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
Ideally it should go to the top Senior team in Canada. It's what the Allen Cup now represents, but it was who competed for the Stanley Cup before the professionals took over...
I thought of that as well, and did some checking. Seems the Allen actually goes way way back to like 1909 or thereabouts, it too like the Stanley Cup initially a "Challenge" format amongst the top Senior A teams. Unbroken chain ever since, including yer Cambridge Hornets & Hamilton Tigers who won it at various times. I doubt they'd want to replace it, if for even one Season with Lord Stanleys Mug....


Last edited by Killion: 09-17-2012 at 10:13 PM. Reason: typos...
Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 10:55 PM
  #66
starling
Registered User
 
starling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 3,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood3 View Post
Not all provinces could ice a team on their own. And I don't believe that NWT or Yukon have a player in the NHL. Nunavut has Tootoo. So it would have to be regional. And AHAUS could come up with boundaries for the USA. I would think that no European countries would enter national teams without their European based players. So Euros could be drafted to one of the regional teams.
4 sides would be just fine: Ontario, Quebec(with Maritimes), Prairies and BC.

starling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 11:28 PM
  #67
RTN
Be Kind, Rewind
 
RTN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,914
vCash: 500
I'd like to see a tournament with the top CHL, junior A, senior A, and university teams.

RTN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 11:49 PM
  #68
Hollywood3
Bison/Jet Fan
 
Hollywood3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by starling View Post
4 sides would be just fine: Ontario, Quebec(with Maritimes), Prairies and BC.
I fund a website which lists players by birth province/state:

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/state...-12-stats.html

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/provi...-12-stats.html

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/natio...-12-stats.html

If the usual Hockey Canada zones were used, there would be five:

Pacific: BC/Alberta (133 players)
West: Manitoba/Sask/NW Ontario (85 from Man/Sask)
Ontario: all Ontario excluding NW Ontario (208 incl NWO)
Quebec: all Quebec (71 players)
Atlantic: Nfld/NS/NB/PEI (25 players)

Other than the Staals, I don't know off-hand how many NHLers are from NW Ontario.

I had thought that 5 teams from Canada and 3 teams from the USA would work, with Europeans spicing up each roster, especially Atlantic.

But a case could be made for 4 Canadian zones, with Quebec/Atlantic merged.

Anyhow, these are all details. The concept of an all-star league would be amazingly cool and would be a fine substitute Stanley Cup.

Hollywood3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2012, 12:07 AM
  #69
Hollywood3
Bison/Jet Fan
 
Hollywood3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTN View Post
I'd like to see a tournament with the top CHL, junior A, senior A, and university teams.
I don't mind the idea but the current Memorial Cup, RBC Cup, and Allen Cup go too long into the spring.

There is also a problem with competitiveness. The Memorial Cup winner would be much better than the RBC winner, but would not be a physical match for the Allen Cup winner. In turn, the Allen Cup teams would be smoked by the University teams.

So, all I could realistically see would be the top 4 from the CIS playing the top 4 from the NCAA (though the numbers involved could be altered). It could be played in May after all other competitions have concluded.

Hollywood3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 07:33 AM
  #70
Habaneros
Habs Cup champs 2010
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,700
vCash: 500
"It's just not going to happen,"Brian O'Neill, a Stanley Cup trustee

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/if-the-...-back-1.962189

Habaneros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 07:43 AM
  #71
Diatidialga
Registered User
 
Diatidialga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,040
vCash: 50
To bad it's already been ruled in court that it can

Diatidialga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 07:49 AM
  #72
CerebralGenesis
Registered User
 
CerebralGenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23,558
vCash: 500
So the league could lose their players and trophy. Good plan, lock em out all year.

CerebralGenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 08:20 AM
  #73
rojac
HFBoards Sponsor
 
rojac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Waterloo, ON
Posts: 6,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diatidialga View Post
To bad it's already been ruled in court that it can
As the article states, the trustees have the option of awarding the cup to someone else if the NHL playoffs are cancelled. But it's up to the trustees and from the sounds of this article, they don't appear to be interested in awarding it to anyone but the NHL.

rojac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 08:25 AM
  #74
madhi19
Registered User
 
madhi19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cold and Dark place!
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,183
vCash: 500
The problem is the NHL stacked the trustee board with former NHL suit!

madhi19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 08:31 AM
  #75
Shawa666
Registered User
 
Shawa666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Québec, Qc, Ca
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,305
vCash: 490
Well, we know what to do next. Sue the Trustees.

Shawa666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.