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Prospect Thread - Part XI

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Old
09-02-2012, 07:39 PM
  #51
MS
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Originally Posted by Electric Eye View Post
I don’t know about the rest of you, but every time I saw another signing of a forward with #13 potential or potential #7 defensemen I cringed... My opinion is that we are quite overstocked with low-ceiling AHL “stars” and, especially if there is a lockout, it’s going to be the toughest year ever for Canucks AHL prospects to get significant ice time.

With so many, I’m sure I’ll make some accidental omissions here and positional errors, but I see the Wolves opening day roster looking something like this (assuming a lockout):

D. Weise – J. Schroeder – Z. Kassian
B. Sterling – S. Pinizzotto – D. Haydar
B. Sweatt – T. Miller – A. Gordon
G. Desbiens – A. Friesen – A. Volpatti

D. Joslin – C. Tanev
P. Mullen – K. Connauton
Y. Sauve – M. Matheson

E. Lack
M. Climie

I’m already somewhat upset with the lack of spots for legitimate prospects like Rodin and Mallet plus Connauton and Sauve would be getting reduced minutes with Joslin and Mullen in the picture. Imagine the 2nd AHL team we could put together:

Rodin – Mallet – Archibald
Davies – Schneider – Matson
Roussel – Longpre – Clackson
Tochkin – Doell – Anthony

Negrin – Miskovic
Polasek – Hunt
Andersson – D. Friesen

Cannata
Corbeil-Theriault

We just used a pretty high pick on Mallet, but how does he possibly crack the Wolves top 6, or Rodin? Matson has no chance, Polasek is buried deep, etc. Plus, a lot of the guys on the second roster played a lot of minutes with Chicago last year, so I’m not even convinced they wouldn’t be ahead of some of the other AHL vets. I just can’t wrap my head around the Wolves signing Davies, Longpre, Negrin, Miskovic, Hunt, etc to say nothing of the Canucks signing (the completely redundant) Desbiens, Joslin or Mullen.

I certainly understand the need to prepare the roster as if there won’t be a lockout, In which case you can essentially expect the take the top forward and defence lines to be up with the Canucks. But, even then, there appears to be massive overkill in the depth department. Taking the top Fwd/D-lines from the 2nd team still leaves you with two AHL-quality lines and Cannata, who is quite a solid prospect as well.

It seems petty to complain about an abundance of depth, but when it’s a developmental league and guys who should be playing top six/top four minutes are getting pushed down by AHL-lifers left and right, I think it’s a problem.

I think it’s great Jensen and Grenier are heading to Europe and I wish we could send a few more of these guys over too, but I really think this is an issue that Gillis should look at long and hard – if not for this year, then for next year when it comes time to decide on renewing with Chicago... Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoa Crisp View Post
Excellent post. It's a very good point that bears discussing: is Chicago a good AHL partner for us and what are the contingencies if and when a lockout occurs. It's probably worth mentioning that the AHL will be even more congested than you're already suggesting: marginal NHLers will also be looking for work in the next-best North American league.
Disagree almost completely.

Teams loaded with rookie AHL players go 20-60 and nobody develops in that environment.

Simple fact of the matter is that there are only 3 or 4 legit prospects down there at any time and you build your team around creating the best environment for those 3 or 4 guys - best linemates, best winning situation. You don't screw over your best prospects so a bunch of longshot guys get more icetime and a better chance to develop.

Also there are always a few guys hurt and always a few guys in the NHL. When you build a roster and don't take that into account, of course it looks crowded.

If there's a lockout, then tough nuts. Some guys will have to play in the ECHL. Every team will be in that situation with a group of AHL-eligible guys who would normally have been on the NHL squad. But that's the only way to do it. You can't build your AHL team assuming Weise/Schroeder/Kassian/Tanev will be in the AHL, and then get caught with your pants down if the labour situation is resolved in time to start the season.

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Old
09-02-2012, 08:06 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
If there's a lockout, then tough nuts. Some guys will have to play in the ECHL. Every team will be in that situation with a group of AHL-eligible guys who would normally have been on the NHL squad. But that's the only way to do it. You can't build your AHL team assuming Weise/Schroeder/Kassian/Tanev will be in the AHL, and then get caught with your pants down if the labour situation is resolved in time to start the season.
It's not like the ECHL would be bad considering the talent that'd end up there.

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09-02-2012, 08:10 PM
  #53
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the echl is bad because it A: provides a poor environment for development and B: its where you go to die, not progress

in a lockout both of these things would be irrelevant because the talent put down there wouldn't be borderline, it would be AHL average (and better than your normal echl player)

heck on a two way contract they should even get paid the same

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Old
09-03-2012, 09:25 AM
  #54
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Any word on our prospects that are already playing?

Is there a way to follow our Swedish prospects?

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Old
09-03-2012, 12:33 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
Disagree almost completely.

Teams loaded with rookie AHL players go 20-60 and nobody develops in that environment.

Simple fact of the matter is that there are only 3 or 4 legit prospects down there at any time and you build your team around creating the best environment for those 3 or 4 guys - best linemates, best winning situation. You don't screw over your best prospects so a bunch of longshot guys get more icetime and a better chance to develop.

Also there are always a few guys hurt and always a few guys in the NHL. When you build a roster and don't take that into account, of course it looks crowded.

If there's a lockout, then tough nuts. Some guys will have to play in the ECHL. Every team will be in that situation with a group of AHL-eligible guys who would normally have been on the NHL squad. But that's the only way to do it. You can't build your AHL team assuming Weise/Schroeder/Kassian/Tanev will be in the AHL, and then get caught with your pants down if the labour situation is resolved in time to start the season.
Agree that you can't build a team loaded with rookies and that you don't want to screw your top prospects for longshot guys but the amount of aging, 4th line ceiling (at best) guys pushing out legitimate prospects like 2nd rounders should be a concern. There needs to be room for at least a couple 20/21 year olds (esp 2nd rounders like Rodin and Mallet), and there should also be room for at least a couple of Friesen/Matson/Archibald/Polasek etc.

Couldn't want the Wolves to have championship team more for the sake of our prospects. I have no problem with them having 3 top-6 slots locked down by players who will never be in the NHL (Sterling, Haydar, Gordon) or 3 very similar 4th line types (Pinizzotto, Volpatti, Desbiens) because they are elite for the AHL and bring good experience. BUT, I do think it's a problem when on top of this they still go out and sign all of Miller, Davies, Doell, Longpre, etc. who all may be the slightest bit better than some of our comparable prospects today, but just barely and do not fill any particular need. Veteran presence and skill is already a "check".

Agree with Verv that it's unlikely guys who are ready for a role in the AHL will benefit from playing more minutes in the ECHL because the competition and environment is that much further away from the NHL. At 20/21 years old that's a long climb back to relevance and also a great way to make a guy like Rodin pissed and head back to Europe.

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Old
09-03-2012, 01:55 PM
  #56
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ECHL isn't quite the graveyard its made out to be. Seems to benefit mostly goalies and goons, but there are some pretty good players that did time in that league:

http://www.echl.com/alumni-s12397

doesn't matter to me if we are loaded with talent in the AHL... if guys can't be impact players to a certain degree in the ECHL, then what good will they be in the A? If they do dominate, we move a vet, and make room for the young guy.

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Old
09-03-2012, 02:20 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Electric Eye View Post
Agree with Verv that it's unlikely guys who are ready for a role in the AHL will benefit from playing more minutes in the ECHL because the competition and environment is that much further away from the NHL. At 20/21 years old that's a long climb back to relevance and also a great way to make a guy like Rodin pissed and head back to Europe.
thats not what i said - i said that during a lockout, the problems with the ECHL are essentially taken care of. as talent gets pushed into the ahl, so happens with the echl and usually the ahl regulars that get moved down there will not have trouble getting development time because they're good enough to earn it

the echl is bad because you get guys that are barely ahl level thrown down there and the dudes the team hired are better than them, so the prab rais of the world just do nothing but get bussed around and waste what little potential they had. when its anton rodin down there, he gets tons of ice time, and during a lockout, it's not against garbage level competition

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Old
09-03-2012, 05:13 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
thats not what i said - i said that during a lockout, the problems with the ECHL are essentially taken care of. as talent gets pushed into the ahl, so happens with the echl and usually the ahl regulars that get moved down there will not have trouble getting development time because they're good enough to earn it

the echl is bad because you get guys that are barely ahl level thrown down there and the dudes the team hired are better than them, so the prab rais of the world just do nothing but get bussed around and waste what little potential they had. when its anton rodin down there, he gets tons of ice time, and during a lockout, it's not against garbage level competition
Apologies, didn't mean to suggest our points were all the same, mostly just suggesting we're on the same page about not being big fans of the ECHL option: "the echl is bad because it A: provides a poor environment for development and B: its where you go to die, not progress"

Agree that it particularly hurts guys like Prab Rai, but not so sure I agree about a guy like Rodin. He would definitely get way more ice time, and while the competition may be stronger than a non-lockout year, he's already played at a higher level in Sweden and had a good year to build from in the AHL. Even if he racks up the points in the ECHL, it would be tough to look at it as anything but a wasted year for me.

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:52 PM
  #59
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New video with Jensen: http://www.aikhockey.se/artikel/25104/ (not that interesting)

Looks like he'll start out on their 3rd line as that's where he's been the last 2 games. The one game he was on the 1st line, he got an assist and they won. Other than that they've done pretty poorly in the pre-season so far.

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Old
09-07-2012, 12:41 PM
  #60
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Jensen with an assist so far . AIK up 1-0 after one.

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Old
09-07-2012, 02:34 PM
  #61
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where are u watching the game ive been looking everywhere

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Old
09-10-2012, 03:40 AM
  #62
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Curious what Canuck fans think of 2010 prospect Ludvig Rensfeldt. He wasn't signed by CHI, I'm guessing because he just isn't good enough. but he did "ok" in the OHL posting 43 points in 58 games. Perhaps he could still be a 3rd line pro?


Big guy that can skate remains unsigned. I'm really curious as to why?


Edit: Right before people jump on the 43 points in 58 games being abysmal for a 20 yr old, I will preface that by saying it was his first year playing NA hockey. As we've seen with Rodin, it takes some getting used to. Still, size and speed. Could be worth a shot.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 09-10-2012 at 03:59 AM.
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Old
09-10-2012, 04:50 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Curious what Canuck fans think of 2010 prospect Ludvig Rensfeldt. He wasn't signed by CHI, I'm guessing because he just isn't good enough. but he did "ok" in the OHL posting 43 points in 58 games. Perhaps he could still be a 3rd line pro?


Big guy that can skate remains unsigned. I'm really curious as to why?


Edit: Right before people jump on the 43 points in 58 games being abysmal for a 20 yr old, I will preface that by saying it was his first year playing NA hockey. As we've seen with Rodin, it takes some getting used to. Still, size and speed. Could be worth a shot.
That depends, how many contracts are we at already? And where are we going to play this guy?

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Old
09-10-2012, 01:57 PM
  #64
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can anyone comment on the quality of the ahl live streaming games... i was thinking about getting a pass but not gonna spend the money if its lousy quality.

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Old
09-10-2012, 03:23 PM
  #65
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can anyone comment on the quality of the ahl live streaming games... i was thinking about getting a pass but not gonna spend the money if its lousy quality.
Depends on the arena pretty heavily. Games in Chicago will be excellent quality, whereas some other places have absolutely abysmal video feeds from their scoreboards for the livestream.

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09-10-2012, 03:51 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by synobyte View Post
can anyone comment on the quality of the ahl live streaming games... i was thinking about getting a pass but not gonna spend the money if its lousy quality.
Ya last time I checked it was expensive. But if there isn't any NHL hockey I will for sure get it no matter the price or quality.

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Old
09-10-2012, 06:28 PM
  #67
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Depends on the arena pretty heavily. Games in Chicago will be excellent quality, whereas some other places have absolutely abysmal video feeds from their scoreboards for the livestream.
Yup, pretty much depends on if they have a TV deal or not. Most teams don't so you just get the scoreboard feed which is (9 out of 10 times) pathetic.

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Old
09-11-2012, 03:13 AM
  #68
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Yeah, the Wolves' one is pretty decent from what I've seen, compared to some other AHL teams. Though there is another way to see these games...

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Old
09-11-2012, 03:45 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by El Duderino View Post
That depends, how many contracts are we at already? And where are we going to play this guy?
I'm not sure exactly what their current contract limit would because of the potential sliders.


As to where to play: Play him on the left wing. Van's prospect depth at that position isn't the greatest. While we're on the subject, this kind of thing would be made a lot easier if the Canucks owned their own affiliate. Then, you could perhaps get him to sign with your AHL team instead of giving him an NHL contract.

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09-13-2012, 04:34 PM
  #70
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AIK and Nicklas Jensen played their first game SEL game today. In a 2-1 loss Jensen played on the 3rd line, recording 0 points and 2 PIM. Although he played on the 3rd line, he played the most minutes of any LWs on the team.

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09-16-2012, 09:38 AM
  #71
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September 20th can't come soon enough, at least watching our prospects will give me some joy. So frustrated with the league right now...trying to save the Florida, Nashville, Phoenix types when everyone else is doing so well.....just move another team to Canada (end rant).

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09-16-2012, 03:33 PM
  #72
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Nicklas Jensen played for AIK again today in another 2-1 loss. Again no points for Jensen, but he seems to be getting a lot of responsibility, despite being officially on the 3rd line, he played over 18 minutes, the most of all forwards.

I had work this morning, so no chance to try and catch the game, but would be nice to hear how he played from someone who saw the game.

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Old
09-16-2012, 10:22 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Jevo View Post
Nicklas Jensen played for AIK again today in another 2-1 loss. Again no points for Jensen, but he seems to be getting a lot of responsibility, despite being officially on the 3rd line, he played over 18 minutes, the most of all forwards.

I had work this morning, so no chance to try and catch the game, but would be nice to hear how he played from someone who saw the game.
Thanks for updating us. That's impressive, for a 3rd line rookie.

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Old
09-17-2012, 03:07 AM
  #74
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Nicklas Jensen played for AIK again today in another 2-1 loss. Again no points for Jensen, but he seems to be getting a lot of responsibility, despite being officially on the 3rd line, he played over 18 minutes, the most of all forwards.

I had work this morning, so no chance to try and catch the game, but would be nice to hear how he played from someone who saw the game.
He played pretty good. Lots of nifty moves, good puck movement and protected the puck well with his big body in the offensive zone. Moved well on the ice. Not much to show for it though. I don't recall any quality shots. He took a stupid tripping penalty with 11 seconds to go which Färjestad converted on in OT. But all-in-all it was a good impression. The commentators were pleasently surprised and mentioned his name a lot. Looks like AIK has a pretty bad team this year but that might be beneficial to Jensen in terms of ice time and responsibility.

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Old
09-17-2012, 03:12 AM
  #75
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I don't know where to put this, but has anyone checked how prospects are rated in NHL 13?

It's pretty brutal.

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