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Moving Seguin to Center

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Old
09-17-2012, 07:32 AM
  #26
doubleminor138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Lucic-Seguin-Marchand
XX-Krejci-Horton
Peverley-Bergeron-Kelly

I think that lineup would be pretty good.

Never liked the Seguin-Bergeron combo, doesn't really give the line a purpose.
That loks pretty good to me. I'd swap Pevs and Kely's wings, but I like this pretty well. I'll be surprised if Julien mixes up the top 6 forward positiomns because the personel hasn't changed at all, but I wouldn't be against it.

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09-17-2012, 07:32 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleminor138 View Post
Pretty much. I wouldn't have a problem with Seguin at center. But why do that when we have Bergeron and Krejci centering the top two lines and working out pretty well?

I'm cool if CJ mixes it up and sticks Seguin at center instead of #37 or #46 as an experiment to see how well it works out. But we all know he won't do that.
IMO, there is enough offense to go around to have them all play center and get 17mins a night.

This team did go into a season (although briefly) with Savard/Krejci/Bergeron.

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09-17-2012, 07:34 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Yikes, some rather extreme opinions here.

How dare the mess up the chemistry! Oh the humanity. Though I am not surprised at those who are making the claims

Seguin will find his way to center eventually. I would rather them play him there for a a little while then decide what to do with Krejci, rather than just jump into it blind.

Lucic-Seguin-Marchand
XX-Krejci-Horton
Peverley-Bergeron-Kelly

I think that lineup would be pretty good.

Never liked the Seguin-Bergeron combo, doesn't really give the line a purpose.
Agree on all counts. And that lineup makes me salivate.

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09-17-2012, 07:34 AM
  #29
Morris Wanchuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleminor138 View Post
That loks pretty good to me. I'd swap Pevs and Kely's wings, but I like this pretty well. I'll be surprised if Julien mixes up the top 6 forward positiomns because the personel hasn't changed at all, but I wouldn't be against it.
They started the 2010 season with Seguin at center AND Caron on Bergerons wing with Recchi.

I don't think they are that abject to tinkering or promoting rooks to important positions.

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09-17-2012, 07:59 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Yikes, some rather extreme opinions here.

How dare the mess up the chemistry! Oh the humanity. Though I am not surprised at those who are making the claims

Seguin will find his way to center eventually. I would rather them play him there for a a little while then decide what to do with Krejci, rather than just jump into it blind.

Lucic-Seguin-Marchand
XX-Krejci-Horton
Peverley-Bergeron-Kelly

I think that lineup would be pretty good.

Never liked the Seguin-Bergeron combo, doesn't really give the line a purpose.
Completely guessing here Morris, but I suspect maybe Julien`s reasoning for it was twofold, one, putting Seguin with DK wouldn`t be as conducive to the way Segs plays which is speed based, whereas DK is a stop and go guy. Bergy is more of a straight liner too and a more natural fit for Segs??

Then there`s the "example" element, Bergy spoke about how important and beneficial it was to play with, learn from a guy like Marty Lapointe (an expensive teacher but...) and while I think that the players both like, respect DK, as we all know, Bergy is the consummate professional and playing alongside him for a year or two can`t be bad can it???

As for chemistry, players speak about it all the time, some players games just gel better with others, I`ve thought by playing a certain player with another the chemistry would be automatic and it proved otherwise, then there`s been players that I never would have thought would gel turn out to be surprisingly positive.

The Bergy line has it all, a pain in the rear who can get under your skin and hurt you offensively in Marchand, a do it all centerman who`s only now getting the respect he deserves in Bergy, and a young kid who has finish written all over him.

First line are bashers(well, Looch and Horty that is) who can punish both physically when on their games, and hurt you offensively.

Then the 3rd line, a line of utility players who play exceptionally well together. Not saying I am against any personel shifting, but it`s a slippery slope, and one I`m sure CJ has a better handle on than I.

Wouldn`t at all be shocked to see Segs, post faceoff do what the coaches had him doing more as the season closed last year, and that`s shift into the middle more with the centerman shifting off to a wing. Absolutely no need to force feed the kid minutes up the middle, but we`ll see him play a bit more there in situations as his growth continues IMO

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09-17-2012, 08:06 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
Completely guessing here Morris, but I suspect maybe Julien`s reasoning for it was twofold, one, putting Seguin with DK wouldn`t be as conducive to the way Segs plays which is speed based, whereas DK is a stop and go guy. Bergy is more of a straight liner too and a more natural fit for Segs??

Then there`s the "example" element, Bergy spoke about how important and beneficial it was to play with, learn from a guy like Marty Lapointe (an expensive teacher but...) and while I think that the players both like, respect DK, as we all know, Bergy is the consummate professional and playing alongside him for a year or two can`t be bad can it???

As for chemistry, players speak about it all the time, some players games just gel better with others, I`ve thought by playing a certain player with another the chemistry would be automatic and it proved otherwise, then there`s been players that I never would have thought would gel turn out to be surprisingly positive.

The Bergy line has it all, a pain in the rear who can get under your skin and hurt you offensively in Marchand, a do it all centerman who`s only now getting the respect he deserves in Bergy, and a young kid who has finish written all over him.

First line are bashers(well, Looch and Horty that is) who can punish both physically when on their games, and hurt you offensively.

Then the 3rd line, a line of utility players who play exceptionally well together. Not saying I am against any personel shifting, but it`s a slippery slope, and one I`m sure CJ has a better handle on than I.

Wouldn`t at all be shocked to see Segs, post faceoff do what the coaches had him doing more as the season closed last year, and that`s shift into the middle more with the centerman shifting off to a wing. Absolutely no need to force feed the kid minutes up the middle, but we`ll see him play a bit more there in situations as his growth continues IMO

So you are ok with Seguin out there against the hardest competition from the opponent, night in, night out? Seguin doesn't need Bergeron bailing on the offensive zone to get back on D because Crosby and Malkin are making a push.

Long term it seems like a waste of his talent, IMO. They don't do that with Lucic and shouldn't with Seguin either. Hell, I would like them to move Marchand away from that roll as well.

Its the same reason I don't like seeing star player killing penalties. Defensive/ all around guys like Bergeron, sure but guys like Seguin or Lucic should be saving their energy for the offensive side of the game.

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09-18-2012, 07:12 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
So you are ok with Seguin out there against the hardest competition from the opponent, night in, night out? Seguin doesn't need Bergeron bailing on the offensive zone to get back on D because Crosby and Malkin are making a push.

Long term it seems like a waste of his talent, IMO. They don't do that with Lucic and shouldn't with Seguin either. Hell, I would like them to move Marchand away from that roll as well.

Its the same reason I don't like seeing star player killing penalties. Defensive/ all around guys like Bergeron, sure but guys like Seguin or Lucic should be saving their energy for the offensive side of the game.
I`ll be honest, I don`t really care whom he`s out there against, I just don`t think, at this very time, he`s ready to take on all that is required on the defensive side of the puck in this system. Under a different coach, in a different system, he`d be allowed to free flow more , under CJ`s system, I would/am be concerned about giving him too much too soon defensively. On the wing, although he does need to be defensively aware, there is a ton more freedom to do what he does best and that`s create offense.

The biggest difference between Looch and Segs when it comes to these things is speed, Segs has the foot speed to catch up to plays, although Looch, when he gets going is just fine, he has little chance catching up to plays when there is transition.

Look, I`m on board to leave Segs exactly where he is along the wall with Bergy, give him spot duty. I see absolutely no reason he needs more time up the middle right now, and IMO, he may be the most gifted player on this team, but he isn`t the best player on this team right now, that honor falls to Bergy, and playing alongside Bergy, IMO, will never be a negative thing.

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09-20-2012, 03:40 PM
  #33
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My guess is that he plays C on his new Swiss team, and if he lights it up (as expected in a lesser league), then he will have made a case for C that even Bs management can't deny.

If he is not good as a C in the Swiss league, then all of us that want to see him there will have to shut up...until we forget...

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09-20-2012, 03:54 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by DohBruins View Post
In posts that involve Krejci being moved, there are always responses like "...and I'm not sure that Seguin is ready to take on the center position." This just does not make any sense to me.

Can someone please explain this to me? How is a guy who leads a second-place finishing team, in goals and points, and is not a liability defensively not ready for full-time center duties? I know that the first response will be "Julien doesn't rush his youngsters", so don't write that because, I already know that, and Seguin shouldn't be considered a "youngster."

Please, someone reason with me.
Well I guess I'd argue with the bolded. He went from a guy whose defense and lack of effort in tough areas led him to being benched quite a bit, to a guy who should and could play every single game including playoffs. That's an improvement. The strides he made were huge, but too many people take that to mean that his D is adequate or even, GOOD. It's not. His D on the wing still is less than it should be, but given his unbelievable offensive aliblity...who cares. But at C? Nope. He wasn't good enough last year defensively to play C. It's totally possible he's made leaps of improvements again, but until I see it on the ice....
he's a winger.

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09-20-2012, 06:30 PM
  #35
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He's 20, theres no rush. Wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a center when he's 24 ish
I didn't realize that there was a 6 year learning curve to becoming a center...

Seriously, Seguin is entering his 3rd year as a Bruin now. I realize he is only 20, but don't you think you guys are going overboard with the 'don't rush his development' thing? I mean it took us less than 3 years to determine that Zach Hamill was a bust. I think it's pretty safe to say that Seguin looks like the real deal going into year 3.

Unfortunately this is the year of the lockout, which means a shortened season, or possibly no season at all. I hope Seguin is able to play somewhere to continue his development and I think his future is clearly at center, where his skills are most valuable.

Right now, keeping Seguin at wing is more because of need than for development purposes. He's had his mentorship under Bergeron, and I think he's ready to goto the next level. However I don't think the Bruins have a player ready to replace Seguins production at wing. Who do you expect to step up, Jordan Caron? I'm not holding my breath. Caron has not showed anything special and in fact has lost his spot to bottom of the roster wingers multiple times. Maybe he's not a bust yet, but it looks increasingly like we used a 1st round pick to draft a 3rd line player at best.

As for faceoffs, as someone said before, how do you get better at faceoffs without taking some drops in real game situations? The problem for Seguin is that he is too taletned to send down/waste at the AAA level. And he is not trusted enough yet to get the major ice time and game time situations that will fully develop him as a starting center, plus the fact that the Bruins are lacking at wing if he were to be moved. Trading Krejci for a top 6 winger would alleviate that issue, but the right deal has to come along. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a Kane or a Ryan if we were to move Krejci in a trade.

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09-20-2012, 07:58 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Well I guess I'd argue with the bolded. He went from a guy whose defense and lack of effort in tough areas led him to being benched quite a bit, to a guy who should and could play every single game including playoffs. That's an improvement. The strides he made were huge, but too many people take that to mean that his D is adequate or even, GOOD. It's not. His D on the wing still is less than it should be, but given his unbelievable offensive aliblity...who cares. But at C? Nope. He wasn't good enough last year defensively to play C. It's totally possible he's made leaps of improvements again, but until I see it on the ice....
he's a winger.
I couldn't agree more. He's not a good defensive player yet. He's better than bad, sure. He used to be really bad. Now I think he's okay.

We see a lot of people comment in the neverending Kessel vs. Seguin threads about how Seguin is a 2-way player and Kessel isn't. Okay so Kessel is very bad defensively, but just because Seguin backchecks a little more and is a little less afraid to fight for the puck compared to Phil freaking Kessel doesn't mean he's good defensively.

The thing here is that all of our centers are very responsible defensively. Krejci catches crap sometimes, but he's been mentioned in Selke voting. Bergeron, obviously, is awesome. Kelly is very solid. Campbell might not be one of the best in the league, but he's one of the best 4th line centers you'll see.

I don't see why we need to make Seguin a center at all. Sure, if the kid has "it" and it works out, he should be a center. I have no problem with testing the waters here. To make it work in a game situation, though, you're going to need him to be better than one of our centers are ON THAT LINE. Who would you substitute him for? Krejci line? No. Bergeron line? No. Kelly line? No. Campbell line? No, and he'd be a waste there anyway. He's just not there yet.

He can play center in practice. He can play center in games that are blowouts. Maybe it will help his faceoffs or defensive ability. Until he becomes a better center than he is a winger, we should just be happy that he's a Bruin. Let the kid be a wing for now, until his skillset demands otherwise.

I hope he plays center in Switzerland and comes back ready to play center in the NHL. If not, we have a pretty damned good winger on our hands.

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