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The Lockout (is over!!!!!)

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Old
09-16-2012, 06:32 PM
  #26
kmart
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nhl takes a break again ? i wonder if it may has to do something with the olympic games being in russia

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09-16-2012, 07:21 PM
  #27
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nhl takes a break again ? i wonder if it may has to do something with the olympic games being in russia
What?

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09-16-2012, 08:51 PM
  #28
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I think something gets worked out for the Winter Classic at the latest.

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09-16-2012, 09:00 PM
  #29
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nhl takes a break again ? i wonder if it may has to do something with the olympic games being in russia
That's probably at the bottom at the list in terms of negotiating points. Something I'm sure the players will be asking for but I haven't heard it mentioned publicly at all.

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09-17-2012, 09:28 AM
  #30
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09-17-2012, 11:24 AM
  #31
Ridley Simon
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I dont care where these guys play if the NHL season isnt happening. Makes zero difference to me.

Owners are jackasses here, this is on them. They are spending money like its water. If they want more revenue sharing to protect the weak, then they need to work that out amongst themselves.

Orioles, Terps B-ball, Nats, Redskins...hell, even the sorry Wizards are on tap. I will miss the Caps, but not that much.

Team wasnt going to win anything this year anyway, Ted doesnt "get it", and we are stuck with the McPhee/Grunfeld mess for good. Fire away at the fans Ted, dont have a season. See how quickly we come back.

EFF them all, frankly.

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09-17-2012, 11:33 AM
  #32
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Owners don't want more revenue sharing, players do. Owners just want the cap to come down.

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09-17-2012, 11:39 AM
  #33
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Owners don't want more revenue sharing, players do. Owners just want the cap to come down.
Hence the double screw job of players, though.

Salaries down...less money for players.

Salaries down...profits up for owners.

However, the current system is insanely broken with teams losing so much money. Players need to accept that this isn't a baseball cash cow sport.

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09-17-2012, 11:42 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
Hence the double screw job of players, though.

Salaries down...less money for players.

Salaries down...profits up for owners.

However, the current system is insanely broken with teams losing so much money. Players need to accept that this isn't a baseball cash cow sport.
Yep. Owners vs. players, the owners position is going to be to give as little to the players as possible in order to solve their problems. I think they'll have to end up meeting in the middle (because revenue sharing is just too weak as it is).

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09-17-2012, 12:00 PM
  #35
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Tons of young stars -including two superstars- and a successful team in the Nats.

The O's are finally turning around giving hope to a formerly rabid fanbase.

The Skins suck, but it looks like RGIII could be the real deal.

Leonsis must be loving this.

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Old
09-17-2012, 12:04 PM
  #36
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If it's a prolonged market lockout, I'm done with the Caps.

It's an absurd thought that a league, who isn't that great, who damaged the game with losing a season, might think about doing it again. It's nuts.

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09-17-2012, 12:09 PM
  #37
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I dont really recall what my stance was on the last lockout, in terms of if it would kill the sport. But Ill say this....if this thing lasts a full season or even just half a season...Im out. Way to many other things in life to deal with at this point.

Im too old for this ****.

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09-17-2012, 12:10 PM
  #38
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Perversely, I really think an extended lockout might actually help Ovechkin. I'm pretty convinced that the reason he has tailed off in the last couple of years is fatigue and burnout ie. the year to year grind of the NHL marathon seasons. If he gets some time off we are going to see his utter resurrection. Look at Crosby the way he tore up the league when he came back from his concussions.
In a strange way this lockout may be a blessing in disguise for OV.

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Old
09-17-2012, 12:14 PM
  #39
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Agree Strung.

I'm 100% with the players this time 'round anyway, but really the lockout is such a stupid move by management. NHLPA is willing to extend the current CBA and start the season on time while negotiating. This lockout BS is all Bettman and ownership. They'd rather screw their fans than pay the salaries they agreed to.

I bleed for this team, but honestly, if we lose another season because Ted and his peers can't control their own spend-y impulses, I'll still follow the Caps and the league, but I'll never give any part of the NHL another dime.

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09-17-2012, 12:14 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
I dont really recall what my stance was on the last lockout, in terms of if it would kill the sport. But Ill say this....if this thing lasts a full season or even just half a season...Im out. Way to many other things in life to deal with at this point.

Im too old for this ****.
Yeah. I'll still watch some games, still care a bit, but you won't see me in Verizon, and you're not going to see me spend basically 82 nights a year+ worrying about a team that never wins and won't win.

There are way too many other things that I can worry about and enjoy.

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Old
09-17-2012, 12:18 PM
  #41
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and note, last lockout wasn't as bad as they were young and probably going to lose anyhow.

Now, they're still somewhat young, but they're not benefiting a ton from this at all.

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Old
09-17-2012, 12:30 PM
  #42
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Agree Strung.

I'm 100% with the players this time 'round anyway, but really the lockout is such a stupid move by management. NHLPA is willing to extend the current CBA and start the season on time while negotiating. This lockout BS is all Bettman and ownership. They'd rather screw their fans than pay the salaries they agreed to.

I bleed for this team, but honestly, if we lose another season because Ted and his peers can't control their own spend-y impulses, I'll still follow the Caps and the league, but I'll never give any part of the NHL another dime.
To be clear, the NHLPA is willing to play under the terms of the expiring CBA without an extension. What is unsaid is that they'd do that and then cancel the season with a strike. An empty PR gesture that is a non-starter.

I have trouble sympathizing with either side in the end. I'd rather the players hurry up and fold because they have no chance of winning and that's the only way the lockout ends early, but I don't begrudge them their desire to maintain what little leverage they still have. But I can't fault the owners for wanting to spend as little as possible either. Also can't really blame them for unruly spending under the old CBA because that's the environment you have to compete under; you can't not spend, so might as well spend as much as you have to to be competitive. Everyone's greedy but that's what the business is about. Sucks that it's been drawn out this far.

I'll still follow the Caps and get far too emotionally involved. Might waver in terms of being an STH but that would have more to do with my personal schedule and cost than it would the lockout.

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Old
09-17-2012, 01:17 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Owners are jackasses here, this is on them. They are spending money like its water. If they want more revenue sharing to protect the weak, then they need to work that out amongst themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
Agree Strung.

I'm 100% with the players this time 'round anyway, but really the lockout is such a stupid move by management. NHLPA is willing to extend the current CBA and start the season on time while negotiating. This lockout BS is all Bettman and ownership. They'd rather screw their fans than pay the salaries they agreed to.
Ugh, no way. The owners were ready to negotiate in January, but the PA stalled and stalled and stalled until the last possible minute. Then after the owners submitted their offer, the PA took a full month to give their counter-offer (which wasn't even based on the owner's offer anyway). Fehr and the PA has repeatedly said that they didn't view the 15th as a deadline and have blatantly ignored it during the whole process.

The NHLPA is willing to play without an active CBA, sure. But, as brs03 mentioned, it would be playing without an active CBA not playing with an extended CBA. Without an active CBA, there's nothing to prevent the PA from striking, which is exactly what the MLBPA did in 1994 with Don Fehr at the helm, causing the loss of the playoffs and world series that year. And that's exactly what the NHLPA would do again this year if they weren't locked out. No league in their right mind is going to give their players a full season of pay and then lose their cash cow (the playoffs). Not locking out the players hands all of the leverage to the NHLPA and would be suicide for the owners. Fehr and the PA knows that, but they played it off in a hollow PR move like the owners were somehow at fault for doing exactly what Fehr forced them to do. This whole thing is unfolding exactly how Fehr set it up to unfold.

I support some of the players' demands (incresed revenue sharing, namely), but by no mean's am I on the NHLPA's "side." Nor am I on the owners', but since most people don't seem to be paying close enough attention to how the NHLPA has maneuvered so far, I feel obligated to "defend" the owners sometimes.

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09-17-2012, 01:39 PM
  #44
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I don't think I could ever side with players in any labor negotiations in any major sport.

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09-17-2012, 01:48 PM
  #45
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For every person who is saying that they'd stop following hockey if we lose the season, I'm calling BS. None of us are here at hfboards because we're casual fans. Our drug is hockey. Are you really telling me that you'd never watch a playoff game every again? ha!

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09-17-2012, 02:07 PM
  #46
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I wish I was a casual fan like those of you who can just get up and leave.

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09-17-2012, 02:13 PM
  #47
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For every person who is saying that they'd stop following hockey if we lose the season, I'm calling BS. None of us are here at hfboards because we're casual fans. Our drug is hockey. Are you really telling me that you'd never watch a playoff game every again? ha!
Groupthink, my friend.

As for me, the NHL going away doesn't mean much. It'll just shift other leagues/levels of the sport up my watching ladder as a placeholder for when the league comes back. The NHL will always have the best players in the world, so it will always be the league I will watch, but first and foremost, I'm a fan of the actual sport.

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09-17-2012, 02:20 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
This lockout BS is all Bettman and ownership. They'd rather screw their fans than pay the salaries they agreed to.

I bleed for this team, but honestly, if we lose another season because Ted and his peers can't control their own spend-y impulses, I'll still follow the Caps and the league, but I'll never give any part of the NHL another dime.

I agree completely, esp bolded part. The contracts are insanely stupid and designed to cheat the system. They broke it on purpose. They asked for this situation and now they have it.

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Old
09-17-2012, 03:17 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Ugh, no way. The owners were ready to negotiate in January, but the PA stalled and stalled and stalled until the last possible minute. Then after the owners submitted their offer, the PA took a full month to give their counter-offer (which wasn't even based on the owner's offer anyway). Fehr and the PA has repeatedly said that they didn't view the 15th as a deadline and have blatantly ignored it during the whole process.

The NHLPA is willing to play without an active CBA, sure. But, as brs03 mentioned, it would be playing without an active CBA not playing with an extended CBA. Without an active CBA, there's nothing to prevent the PA from striking, which is exactly what the MLBPA did in 1994 with Don Fehr at the helm, causing the loss of the playoffs and world series that year. And that's exactly what the NHLPA would do again this year if they weren't locked out. No league in their right mind is going to give their players a full season of pay and then lose their cash cow (the playoffs). Not locking out the players hands all of the leverage to the NHLPA and would be suicide for the owners. Fehr and the PA knows that, but they played it off in a hollow PR move like the owners were somehow at fault for doing exactly what Fehr forced them to do. This whole thing is unfolding exactly how Fehr set it up to unfold.

I support some of the players' demands (incresed revenue sharing, namely), but by no mean's am I on the NHLPA's "side." Nor am I on the owners', but since most people don't seem to be paying close enough attention to how the NHLPA has maneuvered so far, I feel obligated to "defend" the owners sometimes.
Maybe. Or maybe they play, they negotiate, and they reach a deal. Sure the NHLPA postponed negotiations because, as you and brs03 both note, they have no other leverage. I don't think of pro athletes the same as police or teachers. These unions aren't the difference between health care and no health care -- these guys make millions. But in this particular case, to me, the fault for the lockout lies entirely with the owners, not because of when the negotiations started but because of why they are so contentious.

What burns me up is that the owners locked out an entire season to get "cost certainty". They won in every meaningful way and put in place more or less exactly what they asked for. Then they ****ed it up by allowing their managers to circumvent the cap at every turn. Whatever financial challenges they face are entirely their own doing. And now they want the players to correct their mistakes for them. I say screw that. Ownership made this bed and they should lie in it, at least WRT the commitments they've already made.

This Spector article was posted on the main boards or maybe I saw it on twitter. Anyway, it basically speaks to my feelings. Sharing for what it's worth.

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Old
09-17-2012, 03:31 PM
  #50
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Cap circumvention issues and such are minor points, though. The reason the owners want player costs to come down further is because the cap floor is too high for the stragglers. There's nothing any owner could do about that under the old CBA.

Now, you can say they should just up revenue sharing and be done with it. That would certainly work, but in no way should the owners want that to be the primary solution because it doesn't benefit them as much as cutting player costs does. There's a deal to be made in the middle, obviously.

And, as I said before, it's hard to condemn anyone for giving out crazy contracts when there's really no other way to do it, at this point. That's the double-edged side of a capped environment. If you're not spending to the cap, you're not trying to compete barring unusual luck with ELC timing or coaching etc. If you're not beating another team's offer for the best UFA (and assuming you want the player, obviously) you're not doing enough. That these types of deals weren't anticipated the last time around doesn't mean they were wanted. But if you're going to lose money either way, you might as well be as competitive as possible while doing so (as wins = bigger popularity = increased franchise value, I suppose?) Once pandora's box was opened and the loopholes were discovered there was no going back no matter how financially responsible you want to be.

Also, wrt to the "commitments already made" part of it for the "no rollbacks" PA talking point, I have trouble drawing a hard line there when the proposal is to increase escrow withholding to get around it. It's a rollback, but escrow is already there so it's not like a player is ever guaranteed his full contract. I have no problem with it if it means the cap ceiling and floor are just effectively moved further apart. The players would still have a chance to get their full values if growth were good (and if the stragglers weren't forced to spend as much as they currently are). But then I've long thought that the floor and ceiling were too close together so I'm probably just predisposed to liking that solution.

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