HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Bobby Hull vs Mike Bossy - Better Goal Scorer?

View Poll Results: better scorer?
Bobby Hull 52 64.20%
Mike Bossy 24 29.63%
Id like to be your drinkin' buddy! 5 6.17%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-17-2012, 03:11 PM
  #1
Polo*
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,298
vCash: 500
Bobby Hull vs Mike Bossy - Better Goal Scorer?

I had a pretty good discussion with an ol drinkin' buddy of mine and Im curious to see what others think.

Polo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 03:38 PM
  #2
Midnight Oil
Registered User
 
Midnight Oil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,616
vCash: 500
I'd go with Bobby Hull. Close though.

Midnight Oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 03:52 PM
  #3
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,685
vCash: 500
I'll take Bossy.

Bossy 752 games - 573 goals

Hull - 1063 games - 610 goals

In over 300 more games Hull only scored 37 more goals.

Bossy retired after his 30th birthday and 10th season.

Had he played another 8-10 years, he could have easily had another 400+ goals.

9 straight seasons of 50 or better.

Silly totals.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 03:53 PM
  #4
RabbinsDuck
Registered User
 
RabbinsDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Brighton, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 4,736
vCash: 500
I consider Bobby Hull the greatest goal scorer of all-time with Bossy around #5. Not a large gap between them, though (like between the #1 and #5 *players* of all-time).

RabbinsDuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 03:59 PM
  #5
DJyellow
Registered User
 
DJyellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Laval
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,580
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DJyellow
I am going with Bossy who is arguably the best pure goal scorer ever.

9 consective seasons with over 50 goals. His only season with less than 50 was his last (38 goals in 63 games).

His junior stats are simply unreal. He averaged a mind-boggling 77 goals in 4 seasons in the QMJHL

DJyellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 04:24 PM
  #6
ushvinder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,465
vCash: 500
Hull easily, another scenario of raw stats from the 80's overrating bossy.

ushvinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 04:25 PM
  #7
Stansfield*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'll take Bossy.

Bossy 752 games - 573 goals

Hull - 1063 games - 610 goals

In over 300 more games Hull only scored 37 more goals.

Bossy retired after his 30th birthday and 10th season.

Had he played another 8-10 years, he could have easily had another 400+ goals.

9 straight seasons of 50 or better.

Silly totals.
The goal difference is largely era-dependant. Bobby Hull had much better goal-scoring finishes vs his peers.

Hull: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. (NHL only)
Hull: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. (WHA only)
Bossy: 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5, 7.


Last edited by Stansfield*: 09-17-2012 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Added WHA
Stansfield* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 04:34 PM
  #8
redbull
movin'on up
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,066
vCash: 500
I've seen video of Bobby Hull, boy, did he look impressive.

I am not comfortable answering this, I'm a huge Isles and Mike Bossy fan, bias aside, my eyes tell me that it's Bobby Hull. The stats are close, Bossy's ability to score at that elite level, for his whole career, including junior, internationally, playoffs, is unparalleled.

But to the eye-test, maybe a different story. He appeared to be much more dynamic and dangerous, Bossy more stealthy and productive, more subtly.

Hull won the NHL scoring race (for goals) seven times (would have been eight, and six straight, if he didn't miss some games one year).

That's pretty impressive.

redbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 04:36 PM
  #9
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,998
vCash: 500
Bobby Hull, easily.

Hull is the best goal scorer hockey has ever seen. He led the NHL in goals seven times, including a few times my margins rarely approached by other players.

Mike Bossy has two things going for him him: a shorter career, and a peak in the 1980s, which led to a very gaudy goals-per-game total and leads people to believe that he could have played twice as many games (wasn’t gonna happen in that era; the turnover in the 1988-1993 range was fast and unforgiving), and that if he did, he’d have twice as many goals.

In his last season he was 30 and had his worst per-game total already. It’s likely his decline would have really begun the following season.

The line “In over 300 more games Hull only scored 37 more goals” is pretty lame because it includes a ton of games played past the age of 30 and all the way till 41, ages Bossy never lasted to, in order to see his career averages decline. By the time he was 30, Hull had 472 goals in a very low scoring era, good for 0.58 per game… among players who played before the 1980s, only Richard and Esposito even sniff that figure, and without WW2 and Bobby Orr, no one does.

What Hull did was extremely rare for his era and really for the first 60 years of the NHL. What Bossy did wasn’t. Lemieux scored goals even more prolifically; so did Gretzky. Brett Hull also had the same GPG average before age 30.

That’s not to say Bossy doesn’t deserve a spot firmly in the top-10, but Hull is obviously #1.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 04:36 PM
  #10
King Forsberg
21 68 88 16 44 28
 
King Forsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 5,387
vCash: 500
Bobby Hull is arguably the best goal scorer of all time. I'd go with him. People get caught up in Bossys 50 goal streak and ignore era/league rank. Then some just pro rate his numbers and say he would have outscored Gretzky if he kept playing.

King Forsberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 05:11 PM
  #11
redbull
movin'on up
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
In his last season he was 30 and had his worst per-game total already. It’s likely his decline would have really begun the following season.
.
post is all correct, except this part.

I read his book, he talks about how much pain he was in throughout that whole season, how he shouldn't even have played that many games that year and felt he wasn't contributing to team wins anymore.

He made similar statements in the quest for 50-in-50, when he was pressing too much.

I do believe his scoring rate would have continued, not tailed off too much, only because of the way he played, the types of goals he scored. Unfortunately, scoring goals "that way", standing in the slot, taking abuse, lots of holding, hooking, cross-checking, takes its toll. For anyone.

But he never relied on speed or strength, it was all instinct and positioning. He knew how to score. Not unlike Selanne just knows how to score goals, even though he can hardly skate anymore, compared to his twenties.

I do think Bossy would have scored a lot of goals, if healthy, but not the Gretzky-level, he simply wasn't that good.

Mario, if healthy, could have caught Gretzky, he had that kind of talent...but Gretzky wasn't really a goal scorer, he was a playmaker who also scored, a lot.

redbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 05:24 PM
  #12
revolverjgw
Registered User
 
revolverjgw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,187
vCash: 500
Hull. If he had been born in 1960 he would have blown by Gretzky's 894 goals, nevermind Bossy.

revolverjgw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 06:07 PM
  #13
White Goodman
smell that fitness?
 
White Goodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: England
Posts: 6,645
vCash: 50
Absolutely Hull.

White Goodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 06:28 PM
  #14
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
But he never relied on speed or strength, it was all instinct and positioning. He knew how to score.
Sounds like a really really good (and clutch) Luc Robitaille.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 06:45 PM
  #15
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Angband via Utumno
Posts: 3,270
vCash: 500
I'm inclined to go with Bossy, but to be fair I've seen a lot more of him than I have of Hull.


Last edited by Morgoth Bauglir: 10-12-2012 at 12:33 PM.
Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 08:05 PM
  #16
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,970
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Bobby Hull, easily.

Hull is the best goal scorer hockey has ever seen. He led the NHL in goals seven times, including a few times my margins rarely approached by other players.

Mike Bossy has two things going for him him: a shorter career, and a peak in the 1980s, which led to a very gaudy goals-per-game total and leads people to believe that he could have played twice as many games (wasn’t gonna happen in that era; the turnover in the 1988-1993 range was fast and unforgiving), and that if he did, he’d have twice as many goals.

In his last season he was 30 and had his worst per-game total already. It’s likely his decline would have really begun the following season.

The line “In over 300 more games Hull only scored 37 more goals” is pretty lame because it includes a ton of games played past the age of 30 and all the way till 41, ages Bossy never lasted to, in order to see his career averages decline. By the time he was 30, Hull had 472 goals in a very low scoring era, good for 0.58 per game… among players who played before the 1980s, only Richard and Esposito even sniff that figure, and without WW2 and Bobby Orr, no one does.

What Hull did was extremely rare for his era and really for the first 60 years of the NHL. What Bossy did wasn’t. Lemieux scored goals even more prolifically; so did Gretzky. Brett Hull also had the same GPG average before age 30.

That’s not to say Bossy doesn’t deserve a spot firmly in the top-10, but Hull is obviously #1.
Came in to post this, although I am a very big Bossy fan.

I would furthermore add the overwhelming amount more than the next guy Hull scored in several seasons.
Envision it in the 80's and we are talking 80-90 goal seasons

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 08:10 PM
  #17
Hawkey Town 18
Moderator
 
Hawkey Town 18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,494
vCash: 500
Here's a nice way to show how dominant a goal scorer Hull was at his peak...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
That is correct, here are the top 15 goal scoring margins of victory:

1. Bobby Hull: 68.8% 65'-66'
2. Brett Hull: 68.6% 90'-91'
3. Maurice Richard: 56.3% 44'-45'
4. Wayne Gretzky: 55.4% 83'-84'
5. Gordie Howe: 53.1% 52'-53'
6. Gordie Howe: 51.6% 51'-52'
7. Bobby Hull: 51.5% 61'-62'
8. Maurice Richard: 50.0% 46'-47'
9. Phil Esposito: 49.0% 70'-71'
10. Bobby Hull: 48.6% 66'-67'
11. Charlie Conacher: 44.0% 34'-35'
12. Wayne Gretzky: 43.8% 81'-82'
13. Gordie Howe: 33.3% 56'-57'
14. Phil Esposito: 32.0% 71'-72'
15. Pavel Bure: 31.8% 99'-00'

Hawkey Town 18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 09:14 PM
  #18
Johnny Engine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,387
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I do believe his scoring rate would have continued, not tailed off too much, only because of the way he played, the types of goals he scored.

Unfortunately, scoring goals "that way", standing in the slot, taking abuse, lots of holding, hooking, cross-checking, takes its toll. For anyone.
I'm not sure these two sentences can really exist in the same universe.

In the end, Bossy's career was what it was, and a second 7-10 year run of 50 goal seasons has to be a much bigger leap to make than a period spent declining.

Johnny Engine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 09:56 PM
  #19
RabbinsDuck
Registered User
 
RabbinsDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Brighton, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 4,736
vCash: 500
Brett Hull vs. Mike Bossy is a better poll than Bossy vs, the elder Hull.

Bobby Hull, Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe and Maurice Richard are my top 5 goal scorers of all-time after I really think about it.

RabbinsDuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2012, 08:19 AM
  #20
I Hate Chris Butler
Backlund Fan Club
 
I Hate Chris Butler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Saskatchewan
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,969
vCash: 300
Hull lead the NHL in goal scoring in about 5 or 6 different seasons (some ridiculous number). Bossy only did it twice.

I Hate Chris Butler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2012, 08:41 AM
  #21
shazariahl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Bobby Hull, easily.

Hull is the best goal scorer hockey has ever seen. He led the NHL in goals seven times, including a few times my margins rarely approached by other players.

Mike Bossy has two things going for him him: a shorter career, and a peak in the 1980s, which led to a very gaudy goals-per-game total and leads people to believe that he could have played twice as many games (wasn’t gonna happen in that era; the turnover in the 1988-1993 range was fast and unforgiving), and that if he did, he’d have twice as many goals.

In his last season he was 30 and had his worst per-game total already. It’s likely his decline would have really begun the following season.

The line “In over 300 more games Hull only scored 37 more goals” is pretty lame because it includes a ton of games played past the age of 30 and all the way till 41, ages Bossy never lasted to, in order to see his career averages decline. By the time he was 30, Hull had 472 goals in a very low scoring era, good for 0.58 per game… among players who played before the 1980s, only Richard and Esposito even sniff that figure, and without WW2 and Bobby Orr, no one does.

What Hull did was extremely rare for his era and really for the first 60 years of the NHL. What Bossy did wasn’t. Lemieux scored goals even more prolifically; so did Gretzky. Brett Hull also had the same GPG average before age 30.

That’s not to say Bossy doesn’t deserve a spot firmly in the top-10, but Hull is obviously #1.
This. Hull is probably the best goal scorer of all time.

shazariahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2012, 09:52 AM
  #22
Polo*
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RabbinsDuck View Post
Brett Hull vs. Mike Bossy is a better poll than Bossy vs, the elder Hull.

Bobby Hull, Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe and Maurice Richard are my top 5 goal scorers of all-time after I really think about it.
well considering the discussion was him saying Bossy was better than Bobby Hull...making a thread about Brett would be senseless in this case

Polo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2012, 10:11 AM
  #23
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 8,390
vCash: 500
Bossy is known as a goal scorer, Hull as an all-time great player.

Perhaps the artist would prefer Bossy, but the accountant whould take Hull.

Dennis Bonvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2012, 11:22 AM
  #24
redbull
movin'on up
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
I'm not sure these two sentences can really exist in the same universe.

In the end, Bossy's career was what it was, and a second 7-10 year run of 50 goal seasons has to be a much bigger leap to make than a period spent declining.
bossy averaged 61 goals per 80 games over ten years. 61 is much more than 50.

of course there would be decline, but even in his last session that he played in constant pain, he was on a 48 goal pace.

he scored the type of goals that are impossible to defend, hence, the consistency at all levels, from junior to international.

I have little doubt Bossy would have scored a lot of goals for the next ten, if he was remotely healthy. not unlike Mario would have, injury aside. Of course, we will never know.

doesn't change the fact that bobby hull was probably the better player and goal scorer though.

redbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2012, 11:56 AM
  #25
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
bossy averaged 61 goals per 80 games over ten years. 61 is much more than 50.

of course there would be decline, but even in his last session that he played in constant pain, he was on a 48 goal pace.

he scored the type of goals that are impossible to defend, hence, the consistency at all levels, from junior to international.

I have little doubt Bossy would have scored a lot of goals for the next ten, if he was remotely healthy. not unlike Mario would have, injury aside. Of course, we will never know.

doesn't change the fact that bobby hull was probably the better player and goal scorer though.
One thing though - longevity was simply not the norm for players of Bossy's generation. that 1979 draft class played forever, but the players 1-7 years younger just didn't. There were almost no exceptions.

Bossy, for all the talk about his shortened career, still played the 30th-most games among all 1976-1978 draftees. that class seemed to top out at 1000-1050 games and declines were fast. There is just simply no way he would have played 10 more years; he would have been a freak of nature and bucked the generational trend in a massive way.

Look at the number of players 33 and older who played at least half the season in 1991-92. then do it again for 2001-02 and 2011-12.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.