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In (Partial) Defense Of Scott Howson's Recent Trade History

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Old
09-17-2012, 03:40 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by porknbeans420 View Post
Blind assertions and insults? For all the loooong posts you love to write, you generally refuse to read what other people write. i find this pretty insulting to be honest.



In fact, you chose to avoid including my criticisms in your quote. why are you doing this man?

Also I would like to point out that I am skeptical that your posts which describe your torpid emotional state and use excessive emoticons can possibly be called "rational". Perhaps you define this word differently than me and the rest of society?
Because they aren't criticisms. They're unsupported assertions. And they're being made without regard to other points that have been made in this thread that render many of them meaningless and confirm a few others as being legit issues.

And I'm about as (ir)rational as any other human being.

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09-17-2012, 03:49 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Because they aren't criticisms. They're unsupported assertions. And they're being made without regard to other points that have been made in this thread that render many of them meaningless and confirm a few others as being legit issues.

And I'm about as (ir)rational as any other human being.
Okay I don't think your original post is entirely logical to be honest. But I would like to see what you say for example, over the fact that Howson could have been entirely aware of Carter's personality if he had taken the time to eat dinner with him or something and see if he actually wanted to play in Columbus. Likewise with Nash, it's not like he asked for a trade out of a vacuum, you see, what was Howson's thought process with regards to Nash?

this quote specifically is what I have a problem with

Quote:
This was a trade that seemed justified and well-dome at the time, but has backfired badly - both due to bad luck (Couturier, the unprecedented extent of Carter's madness) and due to issues that should have been foreseen (that Carter would be frustrated at all). It is a black mark.
"unprecedented extent of Carter's madness" - this is an issue that good GM's are paid to avoid. Seemed Justified and well-done at the time? Hardly, it was an overpayment before Carter's "madness" and it now it obviously speaks for itself

Also I don't think HF's opinion is entirely relevant to the topic. I think it is best to consider Howson's actions with or without the opinions of HF posters.

Another point I want to make is questioning whether you can call the Carter-JMFJ trade "well-executed". Yes he did a great job of filing the necessary paperwork I am sure. But most authorities agreed that trade was basically even at the time. Yes Carter had to go at that point but on the other hand Jack was looking like more of a liability for resigning Quick and Kopitar than he did an asset to help us win the Stanley cup. He may end up suprising for sure, but from the looks of it in LA he was basically a 30-40 point defenseman.


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09-17-2012, 03:52 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by porknbeans420 View Post
oh yeah your "your team sucks so back off, broooo..." technique fails because Dave Taylor was a bad GM. So please, stick to the sandbox kiddyo

and if you are trying to say that Lombardi is a bad GM somehow well...
lol, yeah I was saying that maybe you shouldn't throw stones about a team sucking and picking 2nd overall when the Kings did that not too long ago. Nothing to due with Lombardi, but the Kings aren't unfamiliar with sucking and bad management.

As for Lombardi, I never said he was a bad GM. But half way through the season there were a lot of people who thought he should be fired. Here's a Dean Lombardi thread from this passed season. Not saying that means he's bad. I'm saying that it takes time to make a bad team better. Sure, Howson makes mistakes and no, I don't think he's a great GM and I certainly wouldn't want him as mine. But they have had some bad breaks. It was a very lucky break that the Kings landed Doughty in '08. Just imagine had they had the 2nd overall pick the year prior, they get JVR. We'll see next year where the Jackets are picking. But they have a good chance, if the season is missed, to be picking top 5. And there are some really, really good centers up there (MacKinnon, Monahan, Barkov, Lazar, etc.) that could help them a lot. Hey, maybe with the pick that they got from LA they land MacKinnon. Changes that trade a lot, huh?

Oh and BTW, for your criticism of Dave Taylor, he only drafted 2 of your teams 3 most important players in Quick and Kopitar.

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09-17-2012, 03:55 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
lol, yeah I was saying that maybe you shouldn't throw stones about a team sucking and picking 2nd overall when the Kings did that not too long ago. Nothing to due with Lombardi, but the Kings aren't unfamiliar with sucking and bad management.

As for Lombardi, I never said he was a bad GM. But half way through the season there were a lot of people who thought he should be fired. Here's a Dean Lombardi thread from this passed season. Not saying that means he's bad. I'm saying that it takes time to make a bad team better. Sure, Howson makes mistakes and no, I don't think he's a great GM and I certainly wouldn't want him as mine. But they have had some bad breaks. It was a very lucky break that the Kings landed Doughty in '08. Just imagine had they had the 2nd overall pick the year prior, they get JVR. We'll see next year where the Jackets are picking. But they have a good chance, if the season is missed, to be picking top 5. And there are some really, really good centers up there (MacKinnon, Monahan, Barkov, Lazar, etc.) that could help them a lot. Hey, maybe with the pick that they got from LA they land MacKinnon. Changes that trade a lot, huh?

Oh and BTW, for your criticism of Dave Taylor, he only drafted 2 of your teams 3 most important players in Quick and Kopitar.
Maybe I should have said "this thread is about Scott Howson, what do the LA Kings, Dave Taylor, or Dean Lombardi have anything to do with what is being discussed".

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09-17-2012, 04:10 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by porknbeans420 View Post
Maybe I should have said "this thread is about Scott Howson, what do the LA Kings, Dave Taylor, or Dean Lombardi have anything to do with what is being discussed".
You said:

Quote:
Hey I'm going to start a thread in the trade rumors section defending my GM who has led my team to consistent failure! And when people come in and call me out, I will proceed to use a series of emoticons in order to express my anger that someone would try to argue with me... in a forum!

I still want a response to my accusations that no competent NHL GM would believe in Wisniewski as a #1, Mason as a starting goalie, RJ Umberger + ancient Prospal as 1st liners, letting the Nash situation devolve as it did.
1. Whether you like it or not, who was your GM when you picked Hickey, Doughty and Schenn? Oh yeah, Dean Lombardi.

2. Do you not remember Garon and Cloutier when they were the goaltenders for the Kings? Who had them there?

3. Remember who was playing with Kopitar? Yeah, great linemates.

I was pointing out that every GM can be criticized and it's really easy as fan of the team that just won to throw stones at other teams, but the Kings haven't been that far off from where the Blue Jackets have been and that wasn't that long ago. Next year they could win MacKinnon, and as I said in my previous post, with LA's pick no less, and that Carter trade isn't just a good trade, it's a fantastic trade. They then have a bunch of good d-men, good depth up front, and a star to not only build their team around, but market their team around. For all you know, in a year this looks very different. It takes time. I'm sure after Dean Lombardi picked Thomas Hickey there were LA fans that defended that. That doesn't look that bad anymore because they got Doughty in '08.

And BTW, did Columbus not trade Jeff Carter to Dean Lombardi's LA Kings? Oh, yeah. So I guess this thread has something to do with them.

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09-17-2012, 04:16 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
You said:



1. Whether you like it or not, who was your GM when you picked Hickey, Doughty and Schenn? Oh yeah, Dean Lombardi.

2. Do you not remember Garon and Cloutier when they were the goaltenders for the Kings? Who had them there?

3. Remember who was playing with Kopitar? Yeah, great linemates.

I was pointing out that every GM can be criticized and it's really easy as fan of the team that just won to throw stones at other teams, but the Kings haven't been that far off from where the Blue Jackets have been and that wasn't that long ago. Next year they could win MacKinnon, and as I said in my previous post, with LA's pick no less, and that Carter trade isn't just a good trade, it's a fantastic trade. They then have a bunch of good d-men, good depth up front, and a star to not only build their team around, but market their team around. For all you know, in a year this looks very different. It takes time. I'm sure after Dean Lombardi picked Thomas Hickey there were LA fans that defended that. That doesn't look that bad anymore because they got Doughty in '08.

And BTW, did Columbus not trade Jeff Carter to Dean Lombardi's LA Kings? Oh, yeah. So I guess this thread has something to do with them.
I still don't get what your point is

Bad GM = team is bad
Good GM = team is good

Howson has to actually prove something before you consider his situation to be analogous to Dean Lombardi's. And for the record, once we saw all these goalies on the ice, Lombardi didn't just stick with a bad goalie for whole seasons.

I would bet on any other NHL team to win the Stanley Cup in the next 5 years and I don't think many would disagree with me

Also, great point at the end. Very related to what we are discussing. (my brain hurts now)

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09-17-2012, 04:16 PM
  #182
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He seems to be an easy target, but the team does look more well rounded than it did last year. I don't think they're a playoff team with that offense but I'd like to see JJ get the C and the team continue to forge a new identity. Shame about the lockout because they've made some interesting moves this past year and he can't really be judged until we get a chance to see the team in action.

I still don't like the Nash return but it doesn't look as bad as I first thought. They'll be able to ice a much deeper team and even though Nash is gone I do believe JJ to be a franchise cornerstone player.

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09-17-2012, 04:17 PM
  #183
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Nash denied reports of playing in Switzerland...now he's playing in Switerland again.

Nash looks worse from a PR standpoint when it could have been avoided. Nash or his PR team screwed up again and Howson should get a tiny bit more credit for moving Nash because of it. It's not significant, but the message that he's going to the Swiss league now after denying reports that he hadn't signed says nothing good about his character or how he's handled.

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09-17-2012, 04:20 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
Nash denied reports of playing in Switzerland...now he's playing in Switerland again.

Nash looks worse from a PR standpoint when it could have been avoided. Nash or his PR team screwed up again and Howson should get a tiny bit more credit for moving Nash because of it. It's not significant, but the message that he's going to the Swiss league now after denying reports that he hadn't signed says nothing good about his character or how he's handled.
Am I wrong to think that it was a mistake to pick Nash as the team's franchise player? Once Nash had that solid period after his slump in like 2007, he could have gotten some serious trade value. I would put this in the same category as sticking with Bouwmeester until it was trade his FA rights or lose him for nothing.

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09-17-2012, 04:23 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by porknbeans420 View Post
I still don't get what your point is

Bad GM = team is bad
Good GM = team is good


Howson has to actually prove something before you consider his situation to be analogous to Dean Lombardi's. And for the record, once we saw all these goalies on the ice, Lombardi didn't just stick with a bad goalie for whole seasons.

I would bet on any other NHL team to win the Stanley Cup in the next 5 years and I don't think many would disagree with me

Also, great point at the end. Very related to what we are discussing. (my brain hurts now)
Sure, but a couple years ago the Kings sucked and were picking in the top 5. Does that not apply to your own team's GM?

Is Feaster better because they are at least in playoff contention, despite the fact that they don't make it and are quite a mediocre team?

Every team re-builds differently. Some teams, like LA, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Edmonton, etc. like to suck and get top 5 picks. Some teams just have terrible management. But next year he could look like a genius if he gets MacKinnon (again, if there's a draft lottery) with a pick he acquired in one of those trades. He acquired Bobrovsky, has Jack Johnson who could be their future captain, has Murray and could get that #1 center next year. They are nearly as big of a disaster as some want to believe. I don't think they'll be good and I'm not a huge Howson fan, but he's not the worst GM in the league IMO. That's my point.

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09-17-2012, 04:29 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
Sure, but a couple years ago the Kings sucked and were picking in the top 5. Does that not apply to your own team's GM?

Is Feaster better because they are at least in playoff contention, despite the fact that they don't make it and are quite a mediocre team?

Every team re-builds differently. Some teams, like LA, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Edmonton, etc. like to suck and get top 5 picks. Some teams just have terrible management. But next year he could look like a genius if he gets MacKinnon (again, if there's a draft lottery) with a pick he acquired in one of those trades. He acquired Bobrovsky, has Jack Johnson who could be their future captain, has Murray and could get that #1 center next year. They are nearly as big of a disaster as some want to believe. I don't think they'll be good and I'm not a huge Howson fan, but he's not the worst GM in the league IMO. That's my point.
I think you are confusing rebuilding with just being bad enough to consistently get lottery picks. Nor would I call Howson a great GM for "landing" Mackinnon. I am not cynical enough to believe in the lottery draft. My point is that you would have to have very weak criteria to call Howson a genius after all that has happened. Or at least a very short memory. If you look at those Kings' teams, yes there were 3 years where they were a lottery contender, but those teams improved in point totals every year of Lombardi's tenure until this season. My point is that Lombardi clearly had an idea of how it went. Of course I would also like to note, and this is a point that has been referred to many times, he made a strong effort to make the team competitive prior to the 06-07 season by trying to sign Chara and than Drury and Gomez at the end of 06-07.

I guess the most important part of this is that he traded away players like Demitra, Cammalleri, Visnovsky that were guys that were not really going to fit in with his team plan. What players has Columbus gotten rid of because they didn't fit in with the team identity? As far as I can tell, Columbus has been in this "year 1" of their rebuild for the past 5 years.

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09-17-2012, 04:36 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by porknbeans420 View Post
Am I wrong to think that it was a mistake to pick Nash as the team's franchise player? Once Nash had that solid period after his slump in like 2007, he could have gotten some serious trade value. I would put this in the same category as sticking with Bouwmeester until it was trade his FA rights or lose him for nothing.
Who knows how to make that decision then. The franchise is/was such a mess on so many levels, I'm not sure they would have been much better off having moved him then anyway. After winning the scoring title, I really don't see how an organization (he's too big for a gm to make that call on their own) makes a decision to dump that player off in a trade.

I think you may be correct that there are some similarities with Nash and the Bouwmeester situation.

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09-17-2012, 04:36 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by porknbeans420 View Post
"unprecedented extent of Carter's madness" - this is an issue that good GM's are paid to avoid. Seemed Justified and well-done at the time? Hardly, it was an overpayment before Carter's "madness" and it now it obviously speaks for itself
You seem to be the only one who believes that it was an overpayment. And I said that failing to know that Carter would likely be dissatisfied is a potential black mark. The "bad luck" element is that Carter, when dissatisfied, basically refused to play the game of hockey in a competitive manner - and despite the number of folks we've had here who didn't want to stay, that has never happened here before, and it's rarely if ever happened before in the history of the NHL.

He's a professional. One should therefore not be too off-base in assuming that he would have a largely professional attitude.

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Also I don't think HF's opinion is entirely relevant to the topic. I think it is best to consider Howson's actions with or without the opinions of HF posters.
I'm not entirely sure how to reply to this beyond "you appear to have a gift for unintentional humor." I mean, this coming so soon after the assertion that I've "made my HF career assassinating Carter's character"...

Should I start ignoring your comments here, then? I mean, you are, after all, a HF poster, just like the rest of us here...

EDIT: Explaining for the record. The whole point of this thread is challenging HF groupthink assumptions about Howson's ability. Claiming that HFboards opinion is "irrelevant" is therefore... well, unintentionally very funny.

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Originally Posted by porknbeans420 View Post
Another point I want to make is questioning whether you can call the Carter-JMFJ trade "well-executed". Yes he did a great job of filing the necessary paperwork I am sure. But most authorities agreed that trade was basically even at the time. Yes Carter had to go at that point but on the other hand Jack was looking like more of a liability for resigning Quick and Kopitar than he did an asset to help us win the Stanley cup. He may end up suprising for sure, but from the looks of it in LA he was basically a 30-40 point defenseman.
And Carter was dogging it so badly in Columbus and acting so unprofessionally that it was questionable whether or not he'd have any value to anybody at all. After all, if he could do that to Columbus, he could have done it to anybody. That he ended up back together with his BFF undoubtedly helped him a great deal. It renders his trade value pretty damn low... but he seems to be happy enough in LA such that maybe that won't be a consideration for y'all. Maybe. Hopefully.

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Originally Posted by Fan Of Every Anton View Post
He seems to be an easy target, but the team does look more well rounded than it did last year. I don't think they're a playoff team with that offense but I'd like to see JJ get the C and the team continue to forge a new identity. Shame about the lockout because they've made some interesting moves this past year and he can't really be judged until we get a chance to see the team in action.
yeah, that's about 90% of what has me agitated about the lockout. I wanna see how this crazy thing works, damnit!

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09-17-2012, 04:52 PM
  #189
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You seem to be the only one who believes that it was an overpayment. And I said that failing to know that Carter would likely be dissatisfied is a potential black mark. The "bad luck" element is that Carter, when dissatisfied, basically refused to play the game of hockey in a competitive manner - and despite the number of folks we've had here who didn't want to stay, that has never happened here before, and it's rarely if ever happened before in the history of the NHL.

He's a professional. One should therefore not be too off-base in assuming that he would have a largely professional attitude.



I'm not entirely sure how to reply to this beyond "you appear to have a gift for unintentional humor." I mean, this coming so soon after the assertion that I've "made my HF career assassinating Carter's character"...

Should I start ignoring your comments here, then? I mean, you are, after all, a HF poster, just like the rest of us here...

EDIT: Explaining for the record. The whole point of this thread is challenging HF groupthink assumptions about Howson's ability. Claiming that HFboards opinion is "irrelevant" is therefore... well, unintentionally very funny.



And Carter was dogging it so badly in Columbus and acting so unprofessionally that it was questionable whether or not he'd have any value to anybody at all. After all, if he could do that to Columbus, he could have done it to anybody. That he ended up back together with his BFF undoubtedly helped him a great deal. It renders his trade value pretty damn low... but he seems to be happy enough in LA such that maybe that won't be a consideration for y'all. Maybe. Hopefully.

* * *


yeah, that's about 90% of what has me agitated about the lockout. I wanna see how this crazy thing works, damnit!
Okay the words in bold I just question the validity of in the first place. You can't seriously believe that the vast majority of hockey fans didn't think that the Flyers made out much better than the Blue Jackets?

It's funny how once Carter goes to a team with some forward depth he, you know, goes on to help the team you know... win a Stanley cup... Stanley cup winning goal... game 2 OT

And what I am saying is that what you call HF "group think" is not really relevant one way or another for considering Howson's career. For example, this may be hard to believe, but your opinion or my opinion or any other HFer's opinion has no real effect on the way Howson does his job. Let's stick to debating the facts here

edit: Sorry Viqsi, I would have posted a longer response but I am too busy getting my anti-Columbus HF cabal ready to do some more spin work. It's a lot of hard work to make the Bluejackets look bad!

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09-17-2012, 04:59 PM
  #190
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Okay the words in bold I just question the validity of in the first place. You can't seriously believe that the vast majority of hockey fans didn't think that the Flyers made out much better than the Blue Jackets?
In the end? Of course they did. At the time the trade was made? That's a different question.

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And what I am saying is that what you call HF "group think" is not really relevant one way or another for considering Howson's career.
See above re: the point of this thread. Maybe there isn't much reason for you to be here.

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edit: Sorry Viqsi, I would have posted a longer response but I am too busy getting my anti-Columbus HF cabal ready to do some more spin work. It's a lot of hard work to make the Bluejackets look bad!
Cool. Can we commission y'all for some similar smear work against the SEC? Particularly the teams that aren't Bama and LSU.

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09-17-2012, 05:04 PM
  #191
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In the end? Of course they did. At the time the trade was made? That's a different question.



See above re: the point of this thread. Maybe there isn't much reason for you to be here.



Cool. Can we commission y'all for some similar smear work against the SEC? Particularly the teams that aren't Bama and LSU.
I think your problem is that, for you, the "rational" opinion intersects with the "Columbus homer" one. And you don't seem particularily cognizant of this.

I mean okay here is another point to consider. Not one, but two well-paid, top-tier players requested trades from the same organization. Doesn't that speak volumes?

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09-17-2012, 05:15 PM
  #192
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I think your problem is that, for you, the "rational" opinion intersects with the "Columbus homer" one. And you don't seem particularily cognizant of this.
Translation: "Your problem is you're a homer."

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I mean okay here is another point to consider. Not one, but two well-paid, top-tier players requested trades from the same organization. Doesn't that speak volumes?
And part of why the thread was started was so that details as to why crap like that happens get overlooked, and consequently broad, sweeping, and inaccurate generalizations are made that some of us are tired of dealing with.

If you're here to attempt to find validation of the use of such generalizations by defending them here ("but I'm allowed to generalize because you suck"), then this discussion - or any discussion, really - is probably not for you.

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09-17-2012, 05:17 PM
  #193
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Translation: "Your problem is you're a homer."



And part of why the thread was started was so that details as to why crap like that happens get overlooked, and consequently broad, sweeping, and inaccurate generalizations are made that some of us are tired of dealing with.

If you're here to attempt to find validation of the use of such generalizations by defending them here ("but I'm allowed to generalize because you suck"), then this discussion - or any discussion, really - is probably not for you.
What is inaccurate about the statement that 2 players requested trades from Columbus? what about that isn't true? Yes there are complexities to the situation but you seem to fail to understand what the word "generalize" means.

Okay here's the count

Players that requested a trade from the Blue Jackets 2011-12 season:

Jeff Carter
Rick Nash

that looks like there are 2 players listed to me

I think true generalization would look more like "Columbus has been a mess since the beginning of their history, they will go on to be a mess forever after" an opinion which I have repudiated earlier


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09-17-2012, 06:02 PM
  #194
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What is inaccurate about the statement that 2 players requested trades from Columbus? what about that isn't true? Yes there are complexities to the situation but you seem to fail to understand what the word "generalize" means.

Okay here's the count

Players that requested a trade from the Blue Jackets 2011-12 season:

Jeff Carter
Rick Nash

that looks like there are 2 players listed to me

I think true generalization would look more like "Columbus has been a mess since the beginning of their history, they will go on to be a mess forever after" an opinion which I have repudiated earlier
It's probably a much more interesting question to ask this - does the request of a trade by two bonafide star players in such a short time span have any precedent in NHL history? I would be tempted to guess that such a thing would never plausibly happen in a pre-salary cap era

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09-17-2012, 06:26 PM
  #195
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I think you are confusing rebuilding with just being bad enough to consistently get lottery picks. Nor would I call Howson a great GM for "landing" Mackinnon. I am not cynical enough to believe in the lottery draft. My point is that you would have to have very weak criteria to call Howson a genius after all that has happened. Or at least a very short memory. If you look at those Kings' teams, yes there were 3 years where they were a lottery contender, but those teams improved in point totals every year of Lombardi's tenure until this season. My point is that Lombardi clearly had an idea of how it went. Of course I would also like to note, and this is a point that has been referred to many times, he made a strong effort to make the team competitive prior to the 06-07 season by trying to sign Chara and than Drury and Gomez at the end of 06-07.

I guess the most important part of this is that he traded away players like Demitra, Cammalleri, Visnovsky that were guys that were not really going to fit in with his team plan. What players has Columbus gotten rid of because they didn't fit in with the team identity? As far as I can tell, Columbus has been in this "year 1" of their rebuild for the past 5 years.
Well how did the Kings get Doughty? Chicago, Toews? Washington, Ovechkin? Washington, Backstrom? Pittsburgh, Malkin? Pittsburgh, Crosby?

Sometimes the lottery is actually re-building the correct way. Maybe Howson has a clear view of what he wants? Maybe Tambellini, up there with his 3 consecutive 1st overalls, has an idea of what he wants? You act like Lombardi didn't make mistakes when he was re-building. He picked HICKEY FOURTH OVERALL. It was a terrible choice at the time and he's a bust. Point is, every GM make mistakes. In a few years, Toronto could be a true contender. They could get a top 5 pick next year, get one of the many top end centers that are up there and have a very solid team going forward. I personally thought the Maple Leafs should have re-built that way instead of how they did instead. But even them, maybe next year they'll get that #1 center to replace Sundin and they'll be well on their way to being a very good team. Who at that point is going to use the Kessel trade against them, if they landed MacKinnon or Monahan or Barkov? I'm saying that you need to wait a few years to judge GMs in certain places. If the Blue Jackets are still where they are now, then go ahead and criticize.

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09-17-2012, 06:57 PM
  #196
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you keep harping on and on about carter being such an unprofessional person when you have absolutely no connection to him or anyone else in the locker room. it's all hearsay and conjecture columbus fans insist on clinging to because they feel so insulted by his not wanting to play for them.

he spent most of the season injured or playing injured, he's also not the type of player that can drag a team kicking and screaming to the playoffs whether they like it or not. unrealistic expectations from management to the fans through and through, time and time again. you don't add jeff carter and james wisniewski to a bottom feeder and expect to make the playoffs.

it's happening again now, too. the blue jacket marketing department hype machine is firing on all cylinders. instead of the rick nash show they're hyping up the fact that you're a team with an incredible blue line. yeesh. you should be glad there's a lockout, it's delaying the inevitable "oh my god, jack johnson and james wisniewski are our top pairing, who thought this would end well?"

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09-17-2012, 07:23 PM
  #197
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Okay the words in bold I just question the validity of in the first place. You can't seriously believe that the vast majority of hockey fans didn't think that the Flyers made out much better than the Blue Jackets?
There were so many Carter to Columbus threads last year that included Voracek and our first... it seemed to be consensus that it was a fair trade value-wise.

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09-17-2012, 09:18 PM
  #198
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There were so many Carter to Columbus threads last year that included Voracek and our first... it seemed to be consensus that it was a fair trade value-wise.
Well, in my mind at least, it ended up being more than the Kings gave for the other guy, which seemed at the time to be a fairly comparable trade.

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09-17-2012, 10:44 PM
  #199
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I only read four comments and they were all positive, so i stopped reading assuming it would only god own hill from there.

to the OP:

Great post. I"m a bit of a closet Blue Jackets fan (everyone loves an underdog) and my take was: At the time of trade, the carter trade was fine, a 40-50 point forward and a first for a consistent 60-80 point forward? not bad.

Then of course, as you stated, it all went to hell. Even at the draft time it was pretty close to a loss, add in the carter issues and yah, it didn't look good.

The LA trade was great. A very good d man and a first for the shell of a 60+ point forward? sign me up. that was a definite "everybody wins" trade.

Finally, the nash trade was not bad. Howson DID shoot himself in the foot by making that trade request public, and probably could have gotten a little bit better, but even then, a very decent return (i'm also an inexplicable fan of Anisimov so i'm a little biased).

Good too see someone sharing the view, though i do think Howson is quite bad as a gm, maybe not due to this string of trades, but someone must be responsible for the piss poor development rate of their players

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09-18-2012, 01:12 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
I only read four comments and they were all positive, so i stopped reading assuming it would only god own hill from there.

to the OP:

Great post. I"m a bit of a closet Blue Jackets fan (everyone loves an underdog) and my take was: At the time of trade, the carter trade was fine, a 40-50 point forward and a first for a consistent 60-80 point forward? not bad.

Then of course, as you stated, it all went to hell. Even at the draft time it was pretty close to a loss, add in the carter issues and yah, it didn't look good.

The LA trade was great. A very good d man and a first for the shell of a 60+ point forward? sign me up. that was a definite "everybody wins" trade.

Finally, the nash trade was not bad. Howson DID shoot himself in the foot by making that trade request public, and probably could have gotten a little bit better, but even then, a very decent return (i'm also an inexplicable fan of Anisimov so i'm a little biased).

Good too see someone sharing the view, though i do think Howson is quite bad as a gm, maybe not due to this string of trades, but someone must be responsible for the piss poor development rate of their players
In my opinion, the development hasn't been horrible under Howson. Granted, that could be because Doug MacLean makes Howson look like Bill Torrey, but as I look through his record it seems to me that the jury is still out on many picks. Hell, two of his 2007 selections just signed their first NHL contracts this past summer.


Last edited by spiny norman: 09-18-2012 at 03:20 PM. Reason: fixed [/B][/QUOTE]
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