HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Chi - SJ

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-17-2012, 12:26 PM
  #26
Chris Hansen
Team Tyrion
 
Chris Hansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,665
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
Good centers always carry a line either offensively or defensively. Most important offensive position in hockey due to the necessary two-way pedigree
You really think Pavelski wouldn't be able to deal with the "pressure" of playing #2C with Marian Hossa on his wing?

He'd be more than capable of taking care of the offensive and defensive responsibilities.

Chris Hansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 12:43 PM
  #27
DuckEatinShark
GET ALL THE PPs!!!!
 
DuckEatinShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose
Posts: 5,259
vCash: 50
Tempting but no, unless Bolland can play wing next to Big Joe.

We don't need a 3rd line center as badly as we need a top line winger.

DuckEatinShark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 01:07 PM
  #28
u2wojo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 60
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
fill a hole by creating 2 others?

that's too much for me. We have nobody to replace Stalberg and we´ve seen that Krüger can't replace what Bolland brings in the POs. This all to add more offense - something we don't really need this much.

and yes, Bollands D is better than Pavelskis D. I'd love to add Joe to the Hawks, just would want to keep Bolland.
Krüger/Pirri + Stalberg + GOOD value for Pavelski would make more sense for the Hawks
I don't see it as creating 2 holes at all. The one thing the Hawks have is a tremendous amount of prospect depth at Wing. While Stalberg did make a step in his development (before last season I feared he was Skille 2.0...really fast but poor hockey sense and bad angle shots galore) last season, but a big chunk of his increased offensive production did come against one team (the worst one in the league) and I think the jury is still a little out on what he really is. I like Stalberg's potential, but the problem with him is he is a UFA and if he actually is not fools gold and can build on last years season...40-50 point wings get 3-4 million as UFA's and that will not fit in Chicago long term anyways. Again, the closest to NHL ready forwards the Hawks have are Saad, Morin, Pirri, & Ben Smith (not counting Hayes and Shaw as they played a lot at the NHL level last year). Of that group, 2 are pure LW's, Pirri a lefthanded center (which starting a center out as a wing at the NHL level is hardly unheard of) and pretty sure Smith is smart enough to play LW.

Pavelski verses Bolland is a trade you make every day of the week at this point. Both similar age and contract status (2 years to UFA), both beyond sound in the 2way part of the game (Bolland defensive prowless is adored by us Hawks fans, but Pavelski is not that far off and the fact that he wins 1 in 10 more faceoffs is a HUGE plus in PK). Pavs has been a bit more durable and Bolland's back should cause some pause also.


For me this boils down to this top 6 is MUCH better then what it will be otherwise:
Sharp-Toews-Kane
Saad/Morin/Pirri-Pavelski-Hossa

Kruger in the #3 slot is much less of a questionmark then him in the #2 slot. Pavs and Toews both can PK exceptionally well, so Kruger could be shelter from the traditional role of a #3 being expected to be a primary guy on PK.

u2wojo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 02:38 PM
  #29
TorstenFrings
wieder zuhause!!!
 
TorstenFrings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Germany
Posts: 3,569
vCash: 500
Chicago makes out slightly better, because they get the best player by miles, but it doesn't make that much sense for them, because they are still dealing away a center in Bolland, so their abysmal center depth onbly improves a little. It does make zero sense for SJ though. Sure, they want to improve their bottom6, but if they wanted to do that by wreaking their top6, they could just play Pavelski there in the first place.

TorstenFrings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 05:33 PM
  #30
TurdFerguson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 708
vCash: 500
To clear up confusion, my intention with this trade was for the following lines:

SJ:

Marleau - Thornton - Stalberg
Havlat - Couture - Clowe
Winnik - Bolland - Wingels/Handzus

And yes I know it seems odd to have Stalberg on the top line RW when there are 3 wingers better than him on the team, but I think it would bring an element of speed to a line that needs it.

Chi:

There's really no point in me posting these lines when Q is the coach. He'd probably actually play Pavelski and Sharp on Toews' wing at some point.

TurdFerguson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 06:01 PM
  #31
StalockSuperfan
Registered User
 
StalockSuperfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,486
vCash: 500
Pavelski is an elite #2 center and defensive specialist. Anyone who says he can't carry a line is nuts. And he is easily on par with Kelser and Bergeron, he just doesn't get any national attention in SJ.

StalockSuperfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 06:11 PM
  #32
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,773
vCash: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by StalockSuperfan View Post
Pavelski is an elite #2 center and defensive specialist. Anyone who says he can't carry a line is nuts. And he is easily on par with Kelser and Bergeron, he just doesn't get any national attention in SJ.
Lolwut?

No...Pavelski is very good, but nowhere near Selke calibre.

Vankiller Whale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 06:12 PM
  #33
Sevanston
Moderator
 
Sevanston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 9,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Lolwut?

No...Pavelski is very good, but nowhere near Selke calibre.
I'd say he's very near Selke caliber. About half a step below.

Sevanston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 06:37 PM
  #34
Gavy
Registered User
 
Gavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 743
vCash: 500
Holy ****. San Jose fans overvalue Pavelski a lot

Gavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 06:46 PM
  #35
BigDmitriy
Registered User
 
BigDmitriy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 745
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BigDmitriy Send a message via MSN to BigDmitriy Send a message via Yahoo to BigDmitriy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
Holy ****. San Jose fans overvalue Pavelski a lot
No, no we don't. Look at the numbers...it's just Kesler/Bergeron get all the attention. Pavelski is not much worse than those 2.

BigDmitriy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 07:03 PM
  #36
WTFetus
Moderator
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Lolwut?

No...Pavelski is very good, but nowhere near Selke calibre.
No where near Selke caliber? Look at the numbers, he faces some of the toughest competition in the league yet still manages to dominate possession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
Holy ****. San Jose fans overvalue Pavelski a lot
No, it's the other way around. HF undervalues Pavelski by a considerable margin. He's not traditional 1C, but he's an outstanding 2C and a great 1st RW.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 07:53 PM
  #37
TurdFerguson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 708
vCash: 500
Ugh, no point in using words like overvalue, that never gets these threads anywhere. San Jose fans see value in Pavelski; he's a great player.

I can see SJ fans not wanting this trade because they don't want to move him without an overpayment, and I don't contend that I offered an overpayment, just a fair value trade that addresses the weaknesses of each team by playing off of their strengths.

TurdFerguson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 08:03 PM
  #38
Trance Kuja
Moderator
Burning Heart.
 
Trance Kuja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Earth.
Country: United States
Posts: 42,138
vCash: 500
It doesn't make sense for Chicago. Pavelski is a great player, and I would love to have him on the team, but not at the cost of Bolland. I'm not saying this because Bolland has more value, I'm saying this because they are both centers. We need more. Not a trade off.

Trance Kuja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 08:25 PM
  #39
BigDmitriy
Registered User
 
BigDmitriy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 745
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BigDmitriy Send a message via MSN to BigDmitriy Send a message via Yahoo to BigDmitriy
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurdFerguson View Post
Ugh, no point in using words like overvalue, that never gets these threads anywhere. San Jose fans see value in Pavelski; he's a great player.

I can see SJ fans not wanting this trade because they don't want to move him without an overpayment, and I don't contend that I offered an overpayment, just a fair value trade that addresses the weaknesses of each team by playing off of their strengths.
Right. An overpayment would have been Sharp + Stalberg + Bolland for Pavelksi + Clowe :-)

I think it's a decent offer, but it's not what we would move Pavs for. Good work!

BigDmitriy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 09:17 PM
  #40
GaryU
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Schaumburg,Il
Posts: 2,777
vCash: 500
Jumbo would LOVE NOT to play against Bolland anymore.

GaryU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 09:18 PM
  #41
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,773
vCash: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
I'd say he's very near Selke caliber. About half a step below.
Alright, exaggeration by my part, apologies. Although I see Pavelski as firmly in the tier below Bergeron/Kesler/Mike Richards etc.

Vankiller Whale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 09:54 PM
  #42
Zoidberg Jesus
Chokers Unite!
 
Zoidberg Jesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: United States
Posts: 2,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Alright, exaggeration by my part, apologies. Although I see Pavelski as firmly in the tier below Bergeron/Kesler/Mike Richards etc.
Each player's last 4 years, prorated as one 82 game season:

Pavelski - 27-37-64
Bergeron - 20-39-59
Kesler - 29-36-65
Richards - 26-39-65

Unless you think there's a very significant gulf in their defensive play, I don't think you can say Pavelski's a full tier below those guys.

Zoidberg Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 10:04 PM
  #43
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,773
vCash: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Each player's last 4 years, prorated as one 82 game season:

Pavelski - 27-37-64
Bergeron - 20-39-59
Kesler - 29-36-65
Richards - 26-39-65

Unless you think there's a very significant gulf in their defensive play, I don't think you can say Pavelski's a full tier below those guys.
Well 2 of those players have Selke trophies. Maybe not Richards, but winning the trophy puts you in another league, imo.

Vankiller Whale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 10:20 PM
  #44
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,506
vCash: 500
And the underrating of 2-way first line C goes on by Chicago fans.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 10:21 PM
  #45
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Well 2 of those players have Selke trophies. Maybe not Richards, but winning the trophy puts you in another league, imo.
Trophy voting is ridiculously flawed.

Matt Carle got 5th place vote for the Norris... What ? Yeah, that's how it is.

He's in the same league as 6-8 other 2 way c in the league.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2012, 10:22 PM
  #46
BigDmitriy
Registered User
 
BigDmitriy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 745
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BigDmitriy Send a message via MSN to BigDmitriy Send a message via Yahoo to BigDmitriy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Each player's last 4 years, prorated as one 82 game season:

Pavelski - 27-37-64
Bergeron - 20-39-59
Kesler - 29-36-65
Richards - 26-39-65

Unless you think there's a very significant gulf in their defensive play, I don't think you can say Pavelski's a full tier below those guys.
He's not...his possession numbers, faceoff %, etc. show that his defensive play is just as good if not better than the other 3. He is better than Mike Richards at the moment and the other 2 guys aren't better than him by much.

BigDmitriy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:16 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.