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So... No Extension for Edler..?

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Old
09-17-2012, 10:44 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Edler is coming off a worse season than Hamhuis, Bieksa or Garrison had before getting their deals. Paying him more money than any of those guys would be ridiculous.
Wow. Don't agree with anything in this post.

Edler had his best offensive year, and the struggles he began to have in the second half of the season are greatly exaggerated. Many of the Canucks D struggled down the stretch last season, even Hamhuis had his off games.

Bieksa got his contract after a 22 point campaign where he was injured for part, and didn't start to play well until the end of the season and playoffs--not that that is a bad time of year to get hot.

Garrison had a decent year, but still had 13 less points than Edler, and, although he's far from a defensive liability, he wasn't exactly a dynamo either--it will be interesting to see how much he benefitted from playing with Campbell. He's also not near as proven as Edler, with only 190 career games.

I honestly didn't watch Hamhuis too much in Nashville before he signed. But looking at his point totals that season compared to Edler's this year--24 vs 49--Edler would still get more based on offensive numbers alone.

Look at what other D are getting: Wideman 5.2, Carle 5.5, Enstrom 5.75. To say Edler isn't worth as much or close to what those guys are getting is ridiculous.

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09-17-2012, 10:50 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Well he's not going to get that, but I can see where he's coming from. Edler's probably hoping to end up in the $5.5 million range so he's starting high knowing Gillis was going to offer him $4-4.5 million. As long as Gillis doesn't draw a hard line at $4.6 I'm sure something reasonable will get done.
Knowing Gillis would offer 4-4.5?

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09-17-2012, 11:34 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 14s incisor View Post
Wow. Don't agree with anything in this post.

Edler had his best offensive year, and the struggles he began to have in the second half of the season are greatly exaggerated. Many of the Canucks D struggled down the stretch last season, even Hamhuis had his off games.

Bieksa got his contract after a 22 point campaign where he was injured for part, and didn't start to play well until the end of the season and playoffs--not that that is a bad time of year to get hot.

Garrison had a decent year, but still had 13 less points than Edler, and, although he's far from a defensive liability, he wasn't exactly a dynamo either--it will be interesting to see how much he benefitted from playing with Campbell. He's also not near as proven as Edler, with only 190 career games.

I honestly didn't watch Hamhuis too much in Nashville before he signed. But looking at his point totals that season compared to Edler's this year--24 vs 49--Edler would still get more based on offensive numbers alone.

Look at what other D are getting: Wideman 5.2, Carle 5.5, Enstrom 5.75. To say Edler isn't worth as much or close to what those guys are getting is ridiculous.
And if Edler wants $6M then he can go elsewhere. Wade Redden got $6.5M per season...is that a good contract?

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09-18-2012, 12:12 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
And if Edler wants $6M then he can go elsewhere. Wade Redden got $6.5M per season...is that a good contract?
And if he goes elsewhere the Canucks take a significant step back longterm.

You have no problem giving a 36 year old Doan $7.5mil for 5 years but would let a 26 year old Edler walk at $6mil? That's awful.

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09-18-2012, 01:17 AM
  #105
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Edler is being terribly overated here. If he wants more than 4.5 trade him. He hasn't earned it or let him play out his contract and show the team that he's worth more than that. If some team wants to offer sheet him and overpay let them. Just because some teams might overpay him doesn't mean that the Canucks should.

Edler has a tantalizing mix of being a large body, who can skate well for his size. Good passing skills, and a hard but innacurate shot and some offensive zone hockey sense. He's the closest thing to a PP QB we have. He has a lot of tools for a defenseman yet so young.

My problem (and I believe it's a huge problem) is that he doesn't seem to have any sort of competitive edge to him. He's sleepy and unfocused 90 percent of the time. scared of getting hit, scared of getting in a scrum, scared of protecting his goaltender or teamates, scared of standing up for himself. Not the type of player you want on your side when your down in the trenches going through the playoff grind.

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09-18-2012, 01:19 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
And if he goes elsewhere the Canucks take a significant step back longterm.

You have no problem giving a 36 year old Doan $7.5mil for 5 years but would let a 26 year old Edler walk at $6mil? That's awful.
Where did I say I would give Doan that contract?

The Canucks take a significant step back if we trade Luongo for Marcel Goc too. Maybe packaging Edler with Luongo could bring back a Patrick Kane type player?

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09-18-2012, 01:44 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by RK17 View Post
Edler is being terribly overated here. If he wants more than 4.5 trade him. He hasn't earned it or let him play out his contract and show the team that he's worth more than that. If some team wants to offer sheet him and overpay let them. Just because some teams might overpay him doesn't mean that the Canucks should.

Edler has a tantalizing mix of being a large body, who can skate well for his size. Good passing skills, and a hard but innacurate shot and some offensive zone hockey sense. He's the closest thing to a PP QB we have. He has a lot of tools for a defenseman yet so young.

My problem (and I believe it's a huge problem) is that he doesn't seem to have any sort of competitive edge to him. He's sleepy and unfocused 90 percent of the time. scared of getting hit, scared of getting in a scrum, scared of protecting his goaltender or teamates, scared of standing up for himself. Not the type of player you want on your side when your down in the trenches going through the playoff grind.
edler's going to be a UFA, no offer sheet required, just an offer is enough. and if you won't pay edler $4.5M, i just don't know what to say. how is he able to keep a job in the NHL if he is unfocused 90% of the time? have you not seen his play in the 2010/2011 playoff? the guy is a physical beast, just ask kane! i'm not sure where you are getting this idea that he is scared, but you cannot be more wrong.

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09-18-2012, 01:46 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
And if Edler wants $6M then he can go elsewhere. Wade Redden got $6.5M per season...is that a good contract?
what does redden have to do with anything here? chara got $7M, that's a great contract, should we pay edler $7M too? i don't see what you are trying to say here, are you implying that edler will pull a redden and have his career crash after a big contract??

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09-18-2012, 02:06 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
And if Edler wants $6M then he can go elsewhere. Wade Redden got $6.5M per season...is that a good contract?
You're not comparing Edler & Redden... are you?


How old was Redden when he got his $6.5M contract? Cause I don't think it was when he was 26!

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09-18-2012, 02:19 AM
  #110
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Can't compare Wade Redden and Alex Edler. At that time, Wade Redden was considered one of the top defense man in the league. He was an all round player and leader for the team, and at that time. It was a no brain-er to choose him over Zdeno Chara. Also, add the fact that, at that time. 6.5M meant a hell lot more than it means now. No one would have guessed that Redden would turn into the player he did.

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09-18-2012, 02:22 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by RK17 View Post
My problem (and I believe it's a huge problem) is that he doesn't seem to have any sort of competitive edge to him. He's sleepy and unfocused 90 percent of the time. scared of getting hit, scared of getting in a scrum, scared of protecting his goaltender or teamates, scared of standing up for himself. Not the type of player you want on your side when your down in the trenches going through the playoff grind.
Unfortunately, This problem is and should be an positive. Every player should have that mindset. How can you say he doesn't have any competitive edge when he goes out and destroys a player? How many guys in the league today, can deliver a hit like Edler that could change the outcome of the game? and do it cleanly.

So what he isn't getting into scrums after the whistle? or fights? That doesn't solve anything.

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09-18-2012, 02:29 AM
  #112
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The closest player that comes to mind is Tobias Enstrom. Edler is slightly better, but is a tad bit less consistent. 5 year, at an average of 5.75M is the range that Edler should be getting. If you disagree, that's fine. Other teams will be lining up.

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09-18-2012, 02:55 AM
  #113
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BTW. Stop comparing Edler to Bieksa. I think it's established that 99% of the fans agree that Edler is worth more. End of discussion. You just can't compare the two. You can't say that you'd be willing to offer 5.5M for Edler, and say that Bieksa is better. It just doesn't make sense. If you want Edler gone, then your best bet is that Garrison ends up bringing more or equal to the table than Edler when they start playing, then make a decision during the off season when Edler is a UFA.

We don't need to continue disguising about Bieksa, when everything is already established. It's just one poster trying to dodge the points given to him. If we really wanted a Bieksa Vs Edler debate, then go make a thread and a poll and it's finished and done deal. No need to take this pointless argument any further.

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09-18-2012, 03:04 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by myrocketsgotcracked View Post
edler's going to be a UFA, no offer sheet required, just an offer is enough. and if you won't pay edler $4.5M, i just don't know what to say. how is he able to keep a job in the NHL if he is unfocused 90% of the time? have you not seen his play in the 2010/2011 playoff? the guy is a physical beast, just ask kane! i'm not sure where you are getting this idea that he is scared, but you cannot be more wrong.
Detroit would absolutely love to have Edler. Wont' surprise me a bit of they go all in. Also would not be surprised if a few teams have made some interesting offers out to the Canucks for Edler. I posted it in some other board that it would be quite interesting if Detroit offered a package of Brandan Smith and Johan Franzan for Edler, with a plan to lockup Edler for the rest of his career. It's something i wouldn't do, but it's worth considering.

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09-18-2012, 03:20 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myrocketsgotcracked View Post
what does redden have to do with anything here? chara got $7M, that's a great contract, should we pay edler $7M too? i don't see what you are trying to say here, are you implying that edler will pull a redden and have his career crash after a big contract??
Redden's contract is as relevant as other players contracts. What, since it looks bad overpaying for a player based people don't like the example? But if it works in their favor it's ok?

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09-18-2012, 03:23 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
BTW. Stop comparing Edler to Bieksa. I think it's established that 99% of the fans agree that Edler is worth more. End of discussion. You just can't compare the two. You can't say that you'd be willing to offer 5.5M for Edler, and say that Bieksa is better. It just doesn't make sense. If you want Edler gone, then your best bet is that Garrison ends up bringing more or equal to the table than Edler when they start playing, then make a decision during the off season when Edler is a UFA.

We don't need to continue disguising about Bieksa, when everything is already established. It's just one poster trying to dodge the points given to him. If we really wanted a Bieksa Vs Edler debate, then go make a thread and a poll and it's finished and done deal. No need to take this pointless argument any further.
I would say Bieksa is very relevant given he is our highest paid defenseman and we are comparing Edler's value to the team relative to what his new contract could be.

Bieksa is the better defenseman. People can plug their ears and close their eyes all the want, but the stats don't lie. That being said, I've maintained that there is value in Edler's potential. Paying Edler $1M more than Bieksa is ridiculous though and could very well turn into a bad contract, but paying Edler a little bit more than Bieksa (5M or 5.5M with no NTC) is more than reasonable. I don't see why people would disagree with this.

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09-18-2012, 03:39 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Redden's contract is as relevant as other players contracts. What, since it looks bad overpaying for a player based people don't like the example? But if it works in their favor it's ok?
Comparing Enstrom/Wideman/Carle to Edler is for the purpose of showing comparable defenseman and what they have recently signed for.

EVERY contract is a risk. To bring up Redden's contract just because it is an example one that backfired has no more significance to Edler's situation than it does to any other big-money UFA signing.

Enstrom/Wideman/Carle are all examples of defenders similar in stats/age/skill to Edler--hell, Edler is actually younger and better than all three--and they all signed contracts within the last year. Those players/contracts are far more comparable to Edler's than Redden's.

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09-18-2012, 03:47 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I would say Bieksa is very relevant given he is our highest paid defenseman and we are comparing Edler's value to the team relative to what his new contract could be.

Bieksa is the better defenseman. People can plug their ears and close their eyes all the want, but the stats don't lie. That being said, I've maintained that there is value in Edler's potential. Paying Edler $1M more than Bieksa is ridiculous though and could very well turn into a bad contract, but paying Edler a little bit more than Bieksa (5M or 5.5M with no NTC) is more than reasonable. I don't see why people would disagree with this.
Unfortunately, you are the only one that thinks that.

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09-18-2012, 09:34 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Unfortunately, you are the only one that thinks that.
I'm not the only one who thinks that. In fact the stats back me on this so unless I read someone say something more than "I know how to watch hockey" or "it just is what it is" then I'll continue to defer to the stats. At least there's no bias there, whereas we know how vilified Bieksa has been, meanwhile how forgiven Edler has been.

I see nothing from Edler, outside of potential, that makes him worth more than Bieksa, and it would be foolish to pay Edler a significant amount more than the rest of our d-men based on potential alone.

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09-18-2012, 10:47 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by 14s incisor View Post
Comparing Enstrom/Wideman/Carle to Edler is for the purpose of showing comparable defenseman and what they have recently signed for.

EVERY contract is a risk. To bring up Redden's contract just because it is an example one that backfired has no more significance to Edler's situation than it does to any other big-money UFA signing.

Enstrom/Wideman/Carle are all examples of defenders similar in stats/age/skill to Edler--hell, Edler is actually younger and better than all three--and they all signed contracts within the last year. Those players/contracts are far more comparable to Edler's than Redden's.
I agree with this
I would expect Edler is looking for 5.75M at least, maybe 6M
If we get him anywhere under 6m I can live with it.
If he gets to UFA, I would bet my left nut someone will pay him more.
I see Y2Ks point about the holes in his game, but dont agree that Bieksa's better -- more mature maybe, but he's 5 years older.
the fact is, 50-pt 26 YOs with size and speed who can hit are rare, and we would take a large step back if he was subtracted from our blueline (arguably we'd go from top 3rd D in the league to bottom 3rd in a hurry...)

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09-18-2012, 10:50 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
I agree with this
I would expect Edler is looking for 5.75M at least, maybe 6M
If we get him anywhere under 6m I can live with it.
If he gets to UFA, I would bet my left nut someone will pay him more.
I see Y2Ks point about the holes in his game, but dont agree that Bieksa's better -- more mature maybe, but he's 5 years older.
the fact is, 50-pt 26 YOs with size and speed who can hit are rare, and we would take a large step back if he was subtracted from our blueline (arguably we'd go from top 3rd D in the league to bottom 3rd in a hurry...)
Bieksa may be older but he and Edler have roughly the same NHL/pro experience.

I would be against letting Edler walk for free as much as I'm against overpaying him for his potential that may never be realized.

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09-18-2012, 12:06 PM
  #122
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Paying Edler more than $4.6 would be ridiculous? OK... If Gillis thinks like you he should've traded Edler because he's not getting him for less.
Right now it would be. He still has a year left on his deal, if he wants to break the internal cap then he needs to separate himself from those guys. Right now, he's not in the discussion for best d-man on the team and doesn't deserve to be paid like it.

I'm shocked at how many of you want to throw money at Edler's point totals. You should know better.

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09-18-2012, 12:14 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
The closest player that comes to mind is Tobias Enstrom. Edler is slightly better, but is a tad bit less consistent. 5 year, at an average of 5.75M is the range that Edler should be getting. If you disagree, that's fine. Other teams will be lining up.
Yeah. This is about right.

6+ on the open market
5.5 is at a slight discount
5 would be a steal

This is under the assumption that he has more potential yet to be reached.
His last contract at 3.25 was expensive at first, then a bargain for many years to come.
If we think he can become someone worth 6.5 in the near future, then I think its worth looking into.


And I don't like overpaying.
Edler's being overrated by some, and underrated by others.

I think the key is not giving him a NTC.

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09-18-2012, 12:16 PM
  #124
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Think John Carlson recent signing would be a good comparable. Add another 500K-1M maybe given that Edler is more 'seasoned'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Right now it would be. He still has a year left on his deal, if he wants to break the internal cap then he needs to separate himself from those guys. Right now, he's not in the discussion for best d-man on the team and doesn't deserve to be paid like it.

I'm shocked at how many of you want to throw money at Edler's point totals. You should know better.
Depends on how much exactly over the "internal cap" he is. Think it's insane letting somebody walk over 500K a year. There's a place for "bean counting" but it shouldn't supersede all priorities.

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09-18-2012, 12:51 PM
  #125
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Depends on how much exactly over the "internal cap" he is. Think it's insane letting somebody walk over 500K a year. There's a place for "bean counting" but it shouldn't supersede all priorities.
500k is likely what Gillis wants these guys to eat for the privilege of playing for this fine franchise. 500k x 20 roster players = a lot of money (Obviously 4th line guys are eating less, the Sedins more) I believe in what Gillis is doing there, you should too.

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