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Old
09-18-2012, 09:36 AM
  #26
Stop Winnin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
San Jose was willing to give a 1st and 3rd to offer sheet him.

If Edmonton is bad again maybe it's time to get some quality D, so that when these kids all need 6.5 million dollar contracts they won't split.
Because the Sharks 1st would be in the 20-30 range instead of the 1-10 range. It's so blatantly clear why you want to do this deal and you are trying to point out the opposite.

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Old
09-18-2012, 09:46 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
How about Hammer + our 1st for Edmonton 1st and Sutton?
Man, Edmonton fans must think their team really sucks. I thought they would be all over this.

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Old
09-18-2012, 09:55 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
San Jose was willing to give a 1st and 3rd to offer sheet him.

If Edmonton is bad again maybe it's time to get some quality D, so that when these kids all need 6.5 million dollar contracts they won't split.
That was after a season whe he looked like he could break out and be a really good 3-4 Dman now he has stagnated a bit and is looking more like an OK 4-5 Dman.

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Old
09-18-2012, 10:10 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Man, Edmonton fans must think their team really sucks. I thought they would be all over this.
1st round picks have a great deal of value to a team managing cap. For example, 19th overall pick in 2011 (from the Kings as part of the Dustin Penner deal) became Oscar Klefbom.

- 3 years of Klefbom at an ELC rate (1.275m,) leaving him as an RFA.
- 2 years of Hjalmarsson at 3.5m (provided one of those years isn't wiped with the lockout.)

Even if Edmonton's in the top 8, I still wouldn't do the deal. Could end up a 1st for 1 year of Hjalmarsson

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Old
09-18-2012, 10:10 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
If there is a season the pick will be top ten and if there is no season it will be 1 or 2. NO way is harlmasson worth that
How is the pick going to be 1 or 2 if there is no season?
The Oilers have one of the least chances to get a lottery pick if there is a lost season.
They have a better chance of getting a lottery pick if the season is played.

Anyway, there is no chance that the Oilers do this deal, way too risky especially with this being such a center heavy draft and that being the Oilers biggest need IMO.
I could see something centered around Paajarvi for Hjalmarsson or maybe even Gagner although i wouldn't do that as an Oilers fan, the 1st round pick is off the table unless the Oilers get a big upgrade in return.

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Old
09-18-2012, 10:14 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
How is the pick going to be 1 or 2 if there is no season?
The Oilers have one of the least chances to get a lottery pick if there is a lost season.
They have a better chance of getting a lottery pick if the season is played.

Anyway, there is no chance that the Oilers do this deal, way too risky especially with this being such a center heavy draft and that being the Oilers biggest need IMO.
I could see something centered around Paajarvi for Hjalmarsson or maybe even Gagner although i wouldn't do that as an Oilers fan, the 1st round pick is off the table unless the Oilers get a big upgrade in return.
If you look at how the Sid the Kid draft went, the pens pick was based upon 5 years of sucking

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Old
09-18-2012, 10:18 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
If you look at how the Sid the Kid draft went, the pens pick was based upon 5 years of sucking
The Oilers would only draw 1 lottery ball while a lot of other teams would draw 2 and 3 balls so their chances would be greatly diminished. There's a thread on the Prospects board outlining the lottery odds if a season is lost.

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Old
09-18-2012, 11:59 AM
  #33
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I would consider trading a 2nd + depth player for Hjalmarsson, but not much more.

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Old
09-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #34
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Nope. Too likely our pick will still end up top 5.

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Old
09-18-2012, 03:46 PM
  #35
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The issue isn't so much with value as with need. As I've said in other proposal threads, the Oilers don't need an upgrade to their bottom pairing badly enough to give up what's being asked.

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Old
09-18-2012, 04:34 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Man, Edmonton fans must think their team really sucks. I thought they would be all over this.
HF has **** on us everytime we get excited so Oiler fans have learned to temper expectations. its like another poster said, 87 points is still drafting 10th and 87 points is a 14 point improvement in the standings

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Old
09-18-2012, 05:08 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
To Chicago
1st round pick,

To Edmonton
Hjarlmasson

Edmonton gambles and trades their first round choice to help round out their defense.

Chicago gambles and trades a solid 3-4 pairing guy hoping for a poor Edmonton finish
Niklas Hjalmarsson is at best worth a mid-first to low first rounder. Unless he is being moved at a trade deadline a first rounder probably won't come and why Chicago would be making moves at the trade deadline like that would also seem impossible.

I haven't seen it done often but unless it had NBA like protections on it, this is a no go from Edmonton. If those are allowed I could see them having top 15 protection, then top 10, then top 5 in terms of when you could see the pick. Once again cannot think of seeing this in the NHL, but that is the only way this makes a ton of sense. That or they gamble on a 2014 pick, just no way Edmonton offers the 2013 pick for Hjalmarsson in my opinion.

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Old
09-18-2012, 07:27 PM
  #38
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If EDM is going to trade for a dman it is going to be for a legit shut down dman that plays tough as that is what they need in their top 4 dmen

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Old
09-18-2012, 07:46 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
something around Paajarvi and Hjalmarsson would be interesting
If you thought the first round pick was bad trust me asking for Paajarvi is far worse. I mean he is like their version of Kadri as in they have high hopes for him just not given the chance in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Because the Sharks 1st would be in the 20-30 range instead of the 1-10 range. It's so blatantly clear why you want to do this deal and you are trying to point out the opposite.
Well seeing how the season very well could be canceled all together and the draft most likely will be done similar to last time Edmonton pick loses a lot of its value as it would only have one ball in the draft. Now I am not saying this deal is fair but at the same damn time I would not rate this pick anywhere from 1 - 10 range as your pick would hold the same value as Chicago's as both teams have the same odds of getting 1st overall.

I am not saying this is still proper value just if at the draft the pick goes to say 20th or 25th then yeah it is pretty bang on value wise for Hammer.

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Old
09-18-2012, 08:12 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Well seeing how the season very well could be canceled all together and the draft most likely will be done similar to last time Edmonton pick loses a lot of its value as it would only have one ball in the draft. Now I am not saying this deal is fair but at the same damn time I would not rate this pick anywhere from 1 - 10 range as your pick would hold the same value as Chicago's as both teams have the same odds of getting 1st overall.

I am not saying this is still proper value just if at the draft the pick goes to say 20th or 25th then yeah it is pretty bang on value wise for Hammer.
If there is no season, it's for one year of his contract, and he's a UFA.

Last 10 years of 20th overall:
Scott Laughton
Connor Murphy
Beau Bennett
Jacob Josefson
Michael Del Zotto
Angelo Esposito
David Fischer
Kenndal McArdle
Travis Zajac
Brent Burns
Daniel Paille

I think that I'd rather take three years of a pick, and hold them as an RFA, over one year of Hammer.

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Old
09-18-2012, 09:48 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
San Jose was willing to give a 1st and 3rd to offer sheet him.

If Edmonton is bad again maybe it's time to get some quality D, so that when these kids all need 6.5 million dollar contracts they won't split.
As a HawkS fan you should know that San Jose made that offer to screw with Chicago's salary cap. With the trade of Brian Campbell and Dustin Byfuglien, the Hawks could ill afford to lose another D, but they could afford to lose Antti Niemi, which was San Jose's real target. That offer has inflated Hammer's actual value, which is around a mid 2nd, no more.

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Old
09-18-2012, 09:50 PM
  #42
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Oilers say no, they have enough of those kind of defencemen, they need a top pairing one.

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Old
09-18-2012, 10:21 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
San Jose was willing to give a 1st and 3rd to offer sheet him.

If Edmonton is bad again maybe it's time to get some quality D, so that when these kids all need 6.5 million dollar contracts they won't split.
San Jose offered a first and a third after years of bottom 10 picks, not three consecutive first overall picks. The value difference is tremendous.

The Oilers have some quality d, at least ones comparable to Hammer, they are missing a couple of top pair guys, and this deal doesn't address that in the least. No deal from Edmonton unless its for Leddy.

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Old
09-19-2012, 06:24 AM
  #44
DontToewzMeBro
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Hjarlmasson is worth more than a second IMO.

If he wasn't why would Chicago match an just let him go and retain a late first and third if he is only worth a second? Lol

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Old
09-19-2012, 08:30 AM
  #45
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Edmonton says no quite easily.

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Old
09-19-2012, 09:04 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Man, Edmonton fans must think their team really sucks. I thought they would be all over this.
Edmonton fans are realistic about the youth and imbalance in the Oilers' 2012-2013 line up. Luckily for us, time alone will go a long way towards maturing the core and bringing in help on the blue line with high grade defensive prospects already in the system.

Now is not time for the Oilers to start dealing first round picks.

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Old
09-19-2012, 09:22 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
Hjarlmasson is worth more than a second IMO.

If he wasn't why would Chicago match an just let him go and retain a late first and third if he is only worth a second? Lol
Because they had just trade away Brian Campbell and Dustin Byfuglien and couldn't afford to lose another D. San Jose screwed them royally with that offer and it is a well known fact.

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Old
09-19-2012, 11:30 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
Hjarlmasson is worth more than a second IMO.

If he wasn't why would Chicago match an just let him go and retain a late first and third if he is only worth a second? Lol
Maybe to some people, but EDM does not need him.

CHI matched mainly due to potential; they thought he might be poised for a break-out. As it turns out, he has regressed if anything. Plus, as was mentioned, they had already lost Campbell and Byfuglien from their Cup team; they could ill afford to lose a 3rd starting D. There is little doubt Hjarlmasson was worth more 2 years ago than he is now.

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Old
09-19-2012, 11:37 AM
  #49
coldsteelonice84
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Originally Posted by roboninja View Post
Maybe to some people, but EDM does not need him.

CHI matched mainly due to potential; they thought he might be poised for a break-out. As it turns out, he has regressed if anything. Plus, as was mentioned, they had already lost Campbell and Byfuglien from their Cup team; they could ill afford to lose a 3rd starting D. There is little doubt Hjarlmasson was worth more 2 years ago than he is now.
Campbell was traded a year later. Had we been able to move Campbell after the Cup, we would have been able to keep most of our players.

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Old
09-19-2012, 11:57 AM
  #50
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Plus, as was mentioned, they had already lost Campbell and Byfuglien from their Cup team; they could ill afford to lose a 3rd starting D. There is little doubt Hjarlmasson was worth more 2 years ago than he is now.
Byfuglien hardly ever played D when he was in Chicago. He was only really there when someone had an injury. He spent most of his time as a left winger.

Campbell wasn't traded in 2010 when Hjalmarsson's offer sheet was signed.

But as for the rest, I agree. Hjalmarsson's offer sheet was matched primarily due to his potential.

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