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Leafs hire Rick St. Croix as new goalie coach

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Old
09-18-2012, 09:26 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post


agree 100% but of course I would I am a Burkite!
I don't hate Burke at all. I just thought maybe he should've taken
the high road, in this instance.

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Old
09-18-2012, 09:35 PM
  #27
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... completely meaningless, no precedence, relation from playing level to coaching goaltending. I was personally coached, as a Goalie, by members of the HHOF to guys who never made it beyond the minors. The best were the lower rung players, as they didnt come by their talents naturally, were a lot more studious, patient. St. Croix was a backup, full-on standup as a player, a method far removed from todays realities of butterfly, but he was hybrid Glenn Hall. One of his disciples, Schneider, replacing Team Canada's and until recently one of the highest ranked in the league in Luongo. I think he knows exactly what he's doing, Allaire obviously having a "communication breakdown" with what we got.
good post.

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09-18-2012, 10:00 PM
  #28
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People who judge a coach by his stats from when he played are dumb. Some of the best coaches in the league were bad players.

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09-18-2012, 10:04 PM
  #29
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It's been hours since St.Croix has been hired and I still see no improvement in Reimer or Scrivens. Is this St Croixs shape up or ship out season?

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09-18-2012, 10:13 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Persuasion View Post
As soon as you hit puberty. The entire league was very high scoring back then.

Here's the Vezina winners from his years:

1984-85 NHL Pelle Lindbergh 25 PHI G 40 17 7 3.02 .899 0.0 0.0 13.9 13.9
1983-84 NHL Tom Barrasso 18 BUF G 26 12 3 2.84 .893 0.0 0.0 7.5 7.5
1982-83 NHL Billy Smith 32 NYI G 18 14 7 2.87 0.0 0.0 9.1 9.1

http://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/vezina.html


Interestingly enough he won the Best Goalie trophy in 85-86 in the IHF (named the James Norris trophy back then)
Lol, owned. Nice. Thought he was so good researching his stats.

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09-18-2012, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Why not?

When all of Toronto's media was ganging up on Allaire's way of teaching young goalies it was Brian Burke that stood up for him and said that he is the best goalie coach in the world...

Then when Allaire decides that the criticism is too much to handle he decides to leave and takes a shot by saying "I don't think the Leafs need a goalie coach, they have 2-3 already" (paraphrasing).

I'd have slung mud back too.

You can hate Brian Burke for a lot of things but he always has the back of his players and management.
Burke on Allaire in March: "I think we have the best goalie coach on the planet."
Burke on Allaire in Sept: "Allaireís approach with his goalies hadnít altered even though rule changes meant his insistence on the butterfly technique wasnít working."

Burke doesn't do himself any favours.

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09-18-2012, 10:31 PM
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Maybe it should have been a package deal.....he brings his son here as well....Michael. He has good hands and was a great pick in the 4th round by the Rangers.....he should have been a second round pick IMHO.

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09-18-2012, 11:33 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Burke on Allaire in March: "I think we have the best goalie coach on the planet."
Burke on Allaire in Sept: "Allaireís approach with his goalies hadnít altered even though rule changes meant his insistence on the butterfly technique wasnít working."

Burke doesn't do himself any favours.
Lol I am guessing this is the reason he chose to retaliate on a blog rather than a media scrum. I can easily see numerous TO reporters bringing that up and Burke scowling left and right.

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09-18-2012, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Burke on Allaire in March: "I think we have the best goalie coach on the planet."
Burke on Allaire in Sept: "Allaire’s approach with his goalies hadn’t altered even though rule changes meant his insistence on the butterfly technique wasn’t working."

Burke doesn't do himself any favours.
Who doesn't take a 180 degree turn in the sports business?

Just have a look at the NFL...when Peyton Manning was a free agent, SF wanted him so badly that they put Alex Smith on hold...right after he signs in Denver, they just say they were not interested in him at all and Smith was always their QB. Things could have gotten worse and SF could have ended up losing Smith too.

Seriously? There is a HOF QB out there for free and you had no interest at all? Right..

All that stuff between Allaire and whoever was interfering with his methods is inside info. Nobody needed to know any of that had Allaire never talked about it. He felt like he had to criticize, and being the GM of the Leafs, Burke sure as hell can't be quiet on the matter.

If he stayed quiet right now... what's to stop other coaches that resign/or are fired to take potshots at the Leafs?

Changing goalie coaches is not a big deal..it's just overblown in Toronto like everything else.

In the end it's a result driven league, Ron Wilson couldn't get them...fired. Allaire couldn't get them and he resigned/contract not renewed, it's not long before Burke will be in the firing line if things don't change quickly.

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09-18-2012, 11:37 PM
  #35
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Not really familiar with his resume. I hope the goalies respond well under his guidance.

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09-19-2012, 07:25 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Not really familiar with his resume. I hope the goalies respond well under his guidance.
here's all you need to know....st.croix is a good friend of carlyle, that's why he got the job.

jobs in hockey are all about who you know.

and, st.croix was the goalie coach for the st.john's icecaps last season. not the winnipeg jets, just the icecaps.

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09-19-2012, 07:35 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
here's all you need to know....st.croix is a good friend of carlyle, that's why he got the job.

jobs in hockey are all about who you know.

and, st.croix was the goalie coach for the st.john's icecaps last season. not the winnipeg jets, just the icecaps.
He wasn't the just goaltender coach for the Icecaps, he was an assistant coach, which included coaching the goaltenders. He had a bit more responsibility than just coaching the goaltenders.

He was the goaltender coach for the Stars when they won the cup.

I do agree though that jobs in Hockey is all about you know, which isn't a bad thing. You surround yourself with people you know and trust.

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09-19-2012, 08:25 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
here's all you need to know....st.croix is a good friend of carlyle, that's why he got the job.

jobs in hockey are all about who you know.

and, st.croix was the goalie coach for the st.john's icecaps last season. not the winnipeg jets, just the icecaps.
He was also the goalie coach for the 99 stanley cup winning Dallas Stars

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09-19-2012, 08:49 AM
  #39
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St. Croix should be a good fit. Like our current goaltenders, he has had lots of practice fishing pucks out of the net while wearing the Blue and White. (Just joking.)

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09-19-2012, 08:50 AM
  #40
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He was also the goalie coach for the 99 stanley cup winning Dallas Stars
1999 - wow that's a long time ago. Many things have changed. Too bad they couldn't have got someone like Sean Burke, isn't he Brian's brother or something. Burke just turned Mike Smith's game around.

As long as they aren't running and gunning things should get better.

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He was the Leafs' leading scorer in the 1963Ė64, 1966Ė67 and 1969Ė70 seasons, and the team's top goal scorer in 1970Ė71 and 1972Ė73. Keon was considered one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and one of the best defensive forwards of his era.[3] He would usually play against the opposing team's top centre, and developed a reputation for neutralizing some of the league's top scorers. In 1970Ė71, he scored eight shorthanded goals, setting an NHL record.
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09-19-2012, 09:06 AM
  #41
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People who judge a coach by his stats from when he played are dumb. Some of the best coaches in the league were bad players.
Carlyle was a Norris trophy winner. I guess we're in big trouble.

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09-19-2012, 09:10 AM
  #42
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Carlyle was a Norris trophy winner. I guess we're in big trouble.
We're the Leafs. Doesn't matter who we hire, we're in trouble.

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09-19-2012, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bester vaive View Post
St. Croix should be a good fit. Like our current goaltenders, he has had lots of practice fishing pucks out of the net while wearing the Blue and White. (Just joking.)

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09-19-2012, 10:10 AM
  #44
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Hopefully, Rick St. Croix can find success, and do his job properly, amidst the meddling from upper management, something the "Worlds greatest goalie coach" Allaire claims he struggled with.

Knowing the situation he was getting into, perhaps St. Croix asked for autonomy, upon accepting the position.

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09-19-2012, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Hopefully, Rick St. Croix can find success, and do his job properly, amidst the meddling from upper management, something the "Worlds greatest goalie coach" Allaire claims he struggled with.

Knowing the situation he was getting into, perhaps St. Croix asked for autonomy, upon accepting the position.
Hopefully he knows never to pick up a paper, turn on a tv or radio, or god forbid he ever enters these boards.

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09-19-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Hopefully, Rick St. Croix can find success, and do his job properly, amidst the meddling from upper management, something the "Worlds greatest goalie coach" Allaire claims he struggled with.

Knowing the situation he was getting into, perhaps St. Croix asked for autonomy, upon accepting the position.
In all likelihood Croix was hired because he's willing to work with others and not just stuck in his ways like some others.

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09-19-2012, 10:23 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Hopefully, Rick St. Croix can find success, and do his job properly, amidst the meddling from upper management, something the "Worlds greatest goalie coach" Allaire claims he struggled with.
Is there a reason that you wrote "upper management" when Allaire clearly said that his problem was with the other coaches?

Rhetorical question, we all know the reason. To derail this into another Burke-bash.

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09-19-2012, 11:11 AM
  #48
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This situation reminds me of the discussion on the main boards were non-Leafers were denying that there's any truth to there being any pressure playing in a market like Toronto. Here we have a guy who fans never see on the ice, who doesn't hear fans boo him or chant mean things about him at games and yet he openly admits (just like many former players and staff) that the pressure and attention was something that he longer wanted to be apart of.

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09-19-2012, 11:30 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
1999 - wow that's a long time ago. Many things have changed. Too bad they couldn't have got someone like Sean Burke, isn't he Brian's brother or something. Burke just turned Mike Smith's game around.

As long as they aren't running and gunning things should get better.
Iíve seen you mention a few times now that the leafs should have hire Sean Burke because of his success with Mike Smith. Based on your issues with Francois Allarie you might want to think twice about that. When I played hockey I study goaltending under Benoit Allaire who is of course Francois brother. During this time Benoit had a very successful reclamation project in the NHL named Sean Burke who before going to Phoenix struggled in Phili. Back in the early 2000ís Benoit and Francois studied together, had similar view on goaltenders playing style except for one major difference. Francois like his goalies to play more aggressive and play further out of his crease and to be a successful goalie under him you needed to be a strong skater which is why both Patrick Roy and pre groin injury Gigure had so much success. Benoit liked big bodied, quick reflex goalies whom could play deep in there net allowing them more time to see the puck and react. This is the same style the Burke coaches and the reason he has been successful with Mike Smith as Mike Smith is a big body quick reflex goalie. Both Mike Smith and Sean Burke are 6í3. Like Scrivenís said itís more than just playing the odds and letting the puck hit you. They actually teach standing up to save the puck if possible it is just a lot easier to say then do.

What is interesting about Allaireís tenor with the Leafís is that his goalies did not play as aggressive as he used to have his goalies play, and started teaching a similar style to Benoit. I donít know if it was due to the way the leafs played or the skating ability of Reimer. As for Gustavsson some goalies just donít mesh with certain goalie coaches, thatís life. He is more of a free style goalie in the lines of Hasek or Thomas but doesnít have their ability to position themselves properly which could have been caused by the smaller rinks, the ability stop in the right place or mental focus. While he might play better in Detroit he is likely to never become the star we hoped for.

TL/DR If you werenít happy with Allaire donít hire Sean Burke as he was a disciple of the Allaire brothers

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09-19-2012, 11:42 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
This situation reminds me of the discussion on the main boards were non-Leafers were denying that there's any truth to there being any pressure playing in a market like Toronto. Here we have a guy who fans never see on the ice, who doesn't hear fans boo him or chant mean things about him at games and yet he openly admits (just like many former players and staff) that the pressure and attention was something that he longer wanted to be apart of.
Funny, a couple of months ago I heard Mike Gillis on the radio discussing at length the negative effects that playing in major markets can have on players what with the media pressure, lack of anonymity, and other distractions.

People who get their kicks out of trolling the Leafs were never too bright to begin with, so no surprise.

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