HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-2013 Lockout Discussion Thread (Part II)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-19-2012, 09:58 AM
  #726
BBKers
Registered User
 
BBKers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Koster, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,804
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to BBKers
Quote:
Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
According to @Guggti, Rick Nash told reporters in Davos he thinks the NHL lockout will last the entire season
Great news --- not

BBKers is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 10:31 AM
  #727
nevesis
#30
 
nevesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 9,601
vCash: 500
This is ****ing brutal.

nevesis is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 10:41 AM
  #728
messierjagrlundqvist
Pop Star
 
messierjagrlundqvist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 65
vCash: 500
Seems weird for "player unity" that former players are speaking out against current players actions and saying "it's not worth it." dont you think? how does that help? keep that kind of talk behind closed doors.

also what leg do the players have to stand on? to negotiate you need some sort of leverage. the lesson learned from last lockout is that the owners can afford to lose a season but the players really can't. it all comes down to how badly the owners want to spank the players. in this case, they're rolling back quite a bit. so what can you do? my feeling is that the players just wanna spill a little blood before taking an offer. to show that they won't just go quietly into the night, so easily. the wildcard in the equation is fehr and what he considers "success" because his reputation and pride are on the line and it's been said that he's good at rallying the players.

messierjagrlundqvist is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 10:43 AM
  #729
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,513
vCash: 500
What annoys me most is that the next move CLEARLY has to come from the players - and they're doing squat (according to all reports we have, anyway).



Dear NHLPA:

Guys, you AIN'T getting over 50% of the take. It just isn't happening, not with every other sports union having already acceded to 50% or less. The NHL is currently at 49%, declining to 47%. They've abandoned the redefinition of revenues that would have shrunk the pie. Therefore the NHL is already within about 2 points of the BEST you're going to get.

Meanwhile, you're still at 57% with a theoretical decline towards the end of the deal IF revenues rise sufficiently. Once again, the BEST you're going to do is 50/50 - and according to off the record interviews, both sides would be fine with that. So, in order to get where you're going, YOU need to make the next move such that you're both 2-3 points away. Then you can close the gap.

So, swallow your pride and step up, fellas.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 10:49 AM
  #730
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
im considering watching all the games this year on illegal online streams despite having cablevision and therefore access to every game in HD on MSG

everyone else should too

that way we still get to watch but they dont get the money....right?
that's not how ratings work. Certain homes have ratings boxes, the results are extrapolated to represent the nation. It's like surveying a sample size of voters as they leave the polling booths to figure out the election results early. Like a previous poster said, if you pay your bill as a Cablevision customer, they don't care. If your provider gives you MSG as your tier package, they don't care.

The NHL is a ticket driven league. If you want to hurt them, don't buy tickets. I'm not going to punish myself. I'll be watching the first game. Dolan is against the lockout anyway. He's rebelled against Bettman publicly just about as much as you can without recourse. If NYR is to blame in any fashion, it's because the big market teams are reluctant to impose meaningful revenue sharing.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 10:50 AM
  #731
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 19,936
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassShootScore View Post
@reporterchris: According to @Guggti, Rick Nash told reporters in Davos he thinks the NHL lockout will last the entire season.
**** you, Rick Nash. Making me hate you before you even put the sweater on.

Fire Sather is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 10:50 AM
  #732
NYRFAN218
Mac Truck
 
NYRFAN218's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
What annoys me most is that the next move CLEARLY has to come from the players - and they're doing squat (according to all reports we have, anyway).



Dear NHLPA:

Guys, you AIN'T getting over 50% of the take. It just isn't happening, not with every other sports union having already acceded to 50% or less. The NHL is currently at 49%, declining to 47%. They've abandoned the redefinition of revenues that would have shrunk the pie. Therefore the NHL is already within about 2 points of the BEST you're going to get.

Meanwhile, you're still at 57% with a theoretical decline towards the end of the deal IF revenues rise sufficiently. Once again, the BEST you're going to do is 50/50 - and according to off the record interviews, both sides would be fine with that. So, in order to get where you're going, YOU need to make the next move such that you're both 2-3 points away. Then you can close the gap.

So, swallow your pride and step up, fellas.
I think the NHL would be fine with the PA getting 52 while it gradually goes down to 50 too. That's what gets me the most upset with this whole ordeal. Based on all the info, the two sides really aren't that far off but seem to be taking their sweet ass time and refuse to budge off their offers, the PA especially. NHL said they'd negotiate off their past offer which leads me to believe the PA could have gotten 50 at the least but of course they didn't respond.

__________________
http://hfboards.com/image.php?u=53946&type=sigpic&dateline=1320361610
NYRFAN218 is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 10:52 AM
  #733
RGY
(Jagr68NYR94Leetch)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
**** you, Rick Nash. Making me hate you before you even put the sweater on.
And you hate him why?

RGY is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 10:53 AM
  #734
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
I think the NHL would be fine with the PA getting 52 while it gradually goes down to 50 too. That's what gets me the most upset with this whole ordeal. Based on all the info, the two sides really aren't that far off but seem to be taking their sweet ass time and refuse to budge off their offers, the PA especially. NHL said they'd negotiate off their past offer which leads me to believe the PA could have gotten 50 at the least but of course they didn't respond.
100% agreed.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 10:55 AM
  #735
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 19,936
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
And you hate him why?
Well, the players are the ones at fault here and their refusal to cave is why we are in a lockout right now.

Comments like that, just like Ovechkin yesterday piss me off. Why are they already ready to lockout all season? Its truly pathetic.

Fire Sather is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:00 AM
  #736
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,984
vCash: 500
Problem with Modano and Guering chiming in now.... the high price players fought the hardest against a cap. They lower level earners wanted to play, the rollbacks and cap world would impact them less. Guys like Commodore who publicly wished for any resolution got a heap of crap from the union. Stars kept up the battle cry.

Now these guys are looking at the career totals and bank account and think that 75% of $7m is better than 0%. It's all hindsight, and they have no gain from this current CBA. They need to shut up, and if they have 2 cents give it to the players behind closed doors.

Shanny set up his current gig with his rules reform and testing during the lockout. He built relationships with owners, GMs and the league office. Guerin and Modo have no future with the PA, they're schmoozing for a job with a team down the line. It's incredibly crappy to sellout the PA and compromise the negotiation with their agenda and irrelevant comments.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:04 AM
  #737
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 23,733
vCash: 910
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
I think the NHL would be fine with the PA getting 52 while it gradually goes down to 50 too. That's what gets me the most upset with this whole ordeal. Based on all the info, the two sides really aren't that far off but seem to be taking their sweet ass time and refuse to budge off their offers, the PA especially. NHL said they'd negotiate off their past offer which leads me to believe the PA could have gotten 50 at the least but of course they didn't respond.
I agree that they aren't that far apart, but we've seen reports indicating that each percent of revenue equates to about $100M USD. So the difference between 50% and 52% doesn't seem large on the surface, but it's significant when you consider it's a couple hundred-million dollars.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:08 AM
  #738
NYRFAN218
Mac Truck
 
NYRFAN218's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I agree that they aren't that far apart, but we've seen reports indicating that each percent of revenue equates to about $100M USD. So the difference between 50% and 52% doesn't seem large on the surface, but it's significant when you consider it's a couple hundred-million dollars.
John Shannon tweeted last week each percentage point was equal to $33 million in revenue so if that's true the NHL would be giving up about $100 million to compromise.

Here's the original tweet.

@JSportsnet: For those scoring at home...in the NHL-NHLPA negotiations, every percentage point reflects about 33 million dollars of revenue.

NYRFAN218 is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:09 AM
  #739
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 23,733
vCash: 910
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
John Shannon tweeted last week each percentage point was equal to $33 million in revenue so if that's true the NHL would be giving up about $100 million to compromise.

Here's the original tweet.

@JSportsnet: For those scoring at home...in the NHL-NHLPA negotiations, every percentage point reflects about 33 million dollars of revenue.
Oh my fault. I thought it was $100M for each percent. Thanks for the correction.

nyr2k2 is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:11 AM
  #740
Staals Eye
once TortsKindaGuy
 
Staals Eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Well, the players are the ones at fault here and their refusal to cave is why we are in a lockout right now.

Comments like that, just like Ovechkin yesterday piss me off. Why are they already ready to lockout all season? Its truly pathetic.
Workers do not lock out, Businesses do. Workers strike.

I don't think they care if their % drops to 50% or so, they just don't want it to happen all at once. If the NHL would accept a salary freeze over 5 years instead of all at once, this would be over already.

Staals Eye is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:12 AM
  #741
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Well, the players are the ones at fault here and their refusal to cave is why we are in a lockout right now.

Comments like that, just like Ovechkin yesterday piss me off. Why are they already ready to lockout all season? Its truly pathetic.
Wow. This right here. Yeah, screw them. They should get bent over so I can be entertained when I get bored in October.

Yeah, no fault on the owners for imposing the last CBA. No fault for either moving their franchise South or knowingly buying teams in poor markets. They've been held hostage and forced to hand out record deals all summer up until 2 minutes before the lockout.

Once the owners decide to honor the signed deals with a reasonable phasing in period, this deal will get signed. No one thinks this will be anything other than 50/50. It's not a money grab for the PA. They aren't holding out for 57%. They aren't asking for a single increase in any bargainable item. It's all losses. If the league locks the cap at $64m until 50% catches that number, they'll have a deal tomorrow.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:12 AM
  #742
haohmaru
#bdwyblueshirts
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 5,644
vCash: 500
Did anyone post this: http://snyrangersblog.com/2012-13-lo...ke-real-money/

Only three teams make "real" money.

haohmaru is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:15 AM
  #743
Greg02
Registered User
 
Greg02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by messierjagrlundqvist View Post
Seems weird for "player unity" that former players are speaking out against current players actions and saying "it's not worth it." dont you think? how does that help? keep that kind of talk behind closed doors.

also what leg do the players have to stand on? to negotiate you need some sort of leverage. the lesson learned from last lockout is that the owners can afford to lose a season but the players really can't. it all comes down to how badly the owners want to spank the players. in this case, they're rolling back quite a bit. so what can you do? my feeling is that the players just wanna spill a little blood before taking an offer. to show that they won't just go quietly into the night, so easily. the wildcard in the equation is fehr and what he considers "success" because his reputation and pride are on the line and it's been said that he's good at rallying the players.
How long before rich owners like Dolan get pissed off and say just cave a little so we can go back to making money?

That's the players' leverage. Whether it will work out or not I don't know.

Greg02 is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:18 AM
  #744
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 19,936
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torts Kinda Guy View Post
Workers do not lock out, Businesses do. Workers strike.

I don't think they care if their % drops to 50% or so, they just don't want it to happen all at once. If the NHL would accept a salary freeze over 5 years instead of all at once, this would be over already.
Right, I understand the owners locked out the players. If they played under this CBA then the players would strike before the playoffs. Doesn't matter who locked out or who striked, the point is the owners are going to win and the players need to realize that and deal with it.

Fire Sather is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:19 AM
  #745
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 23,733
vCash: 910
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Wow. This right here. Yeah, screw them. They should get bent over so I can be entertained when I get bored in October.

Yeah, no fault on the owners for imposing the last CBA. No fault for either moving their franchise South or knowingly buying teams in poor markets. They've been held hostage and forced to hand out record deals all summer up until 2 minutes before the lockout.

Once the owners decide to honor the signed deals with a reasonable phasing in period, this deal will get signed. No one thinks this will be anything other than 50/50. It's not a money grab for the PA. They aren't holding out for 57%. They aren't asking for a single increase in any bargainable item. It's all losses. If the league locks the cap at $64m until 50% catches that number, they'll have a deal tomorrow.
What a terrific post. Sums things up quite nicely. People are killing the players for trying to mitigate just how badly they're going to get ****ed? They're just trying to control their losses at a time where the league is bringing in record revenues. How dare they!

nyr2k2 is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:19 AM
  #746
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 19,936
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Problem with Modano and Guering chiming in now.... the high price players fought the hardest against a cap. They lower level earners wanted to play, the rollbacks and cap world would impact them less. Guys like Commodore who publicly wished for any resolution got a heap of crap from the union. Stars kept up the battle cry.

Now these guys are looking at the career totals and bank account and think that 75% of $7m is better than 0%. It's all hindsight, and they have no gain from this current CBA. They need to shut up, and if they have 2 cents give it to the players behind closed doors.

Shanny set up his current gig with his rules reform and testing during the lockout. He built relationships with owners, GMs and the league office. Guerin and Modo have no future with the PA, they're schmoozing for a job with a team down the line. It's incredibly crappy to sellout the PA and compromise the negotiation with their agenda and irrelevant comments.
You ****ing kidding me right now? Who cares about the negotiation getting compromised? Thats a good thing. Make the players start talking and realizing what needs to be done.

Keep it up. I hope more former players come out and say something. Sink Fehr. Sink the PA. Sink their absurd stance. YEAH!

Fire Sather is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:21 AM
  #747
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 23,733
vCash: 910
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Right, I understand the owners locked out the players. If they played under this CBA then the players would strike before the playoffs. Doesn't matter who locked out or who striked, the point is the owners are going to win and the players need to realize that and deal with it.
I'm sure they do realize it. Everything they're offering is give-back of some sort. They're just trying to fight to minimize those give-backs. Sure, they could cave now and accept a ******, but why? They can continue negotiating and "lose" on more manageable terms. It's damage control.

nyr2k2 is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:23 AM
  #748
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 19,936
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I'm sure they do realize it. Everything they're offering is give-back of some sort. They're just trying to fight to minimize those give-backs. Sure, they could cave now and accept a ******, but why? They can continue negotiating and "lose" on more manageable terms. It's damage control.
They aren't negotiating though. Nobody is doing anything.

I don't understand how both sides can talk to each other directly and still spout the posturing ********. REAL TALK. START TALKING REAL

Fire Sather is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:26 AM
  #749
RGY
(Jagr68NYR94Leetch)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Right, I understand the owners locked out the players. If they played under this CBA then the players would strike before the playoffs. Doesn't matter who locked out or who striked, the point is the owners are going to win and the players need to realize that and deal with it.
I would love to hear what your opinion would be if you were one of the players. In fact I would love to hear your opinion if you were a player who was around for the last lockout and now this one. I'm sure your sentiments would be different. They got bent over last time so this time around they are just trying to minimize how much they get bent over.

Ignorance is bliss.

RGY is offline  
Old
09-19-2012, 11:26 AM
  #750
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,867
vCash: 500
Rick Nash should worry about playing hockey.

Player agent Steve Bartlett. He represents Ryan Callahan and JT Miller.

Quote:
“My gut tells me this is going to weeks we’re out, not months,” said Bartlett, who also represented Doug Weight, former captain of the Edmonton Oilers. “I think the tipping point is (the American) Thanksgiving. That’s six weeks or so after the season (is supposed to start).”

It’s also when HBO would start filming the Detroit Red Wings and the Toronto Maple Leafs in the lead-up to the Jan. 1, 2013, Winter Classic at the University of Michigan stadium. HBO’s hugely popular 24/7 series involves the cameras getting up close and very personal with players — on and off the ice — to promote the outdoor game, which is the NHL’s eye candy for advertisers. It’s the one event they can trot out to sports fans, but not necessarily hockey fans.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...356/story.html

Bartlett wants to see group II free agent eliminated. Entry level to arbitration and then group III. MLB has 3 years of MLB service where the players are not eligible for salary arbitration but they are eligible for the next 3 years. A player becomes a free agent in MLB after 6 years of MLB service time. Bartlett called group III the real promised land. Guess he doesn't like the Skinner,Hall,Eberle and Seguin contracts.

The only problem is the NHL teams are too stupid to use their leverage and they sign players to ridiculous contracts when they are still in entry level. The NHL is the only league with that problem.

Its still only September 19. Thanksgiving is November 22. Season doesn't begin until three weeks from tomorrow.

RangerBoy is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.