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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part III)

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Old
09-19-2012, 10:47 AM
  #401
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Originally Posted by Mehar View Post
I have the same forwards, but Jamie Benn and Bergeron do not belong on the list. Bergeron was terrible in Vancouver. His minutes got slashed from the start of the tournament to the end. He was terrible in the faceoffs, looked slow, and contributed nothing. He had Crosby taken off his line and was the 13th forward by the end of the tournament. I rather have Seguin on the big ice than Bergeron. Next instead of Benn, I would put a guy like Taylor Hall or Skinner on the team. Skinner was impressive in this year's WHC. He looked great on the big ice and played much better than Jamie Benn who did not impress me that much. I frankly think there are others that are ahead of Benn right now. No disrespect to Benn.
With respect to your comments about Bergeron, its widely known that he injured his groin (I believe) in the first game of the tournament and his play suffered as a result. I'd agree that he was pretty bad in Vancouver, but that was over two years ago and since then he's continued to develop into a better 2-way player and was IMO the best forward in Boston's Cup victory last year. So, he was certainly a reach by Hockey Canada in 2010, but should be firmly established as Canada's best defensive center by 2014, with his 70-pt or so production helping his case.

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09-19-2012, 11:15 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
The fact is that is not reality. Most Canadians, myself included, have the opinion it (province) doesn't and shouldn't matter....but the fact is it Matters a Great Deal to Hockey Canada. Hockey Canada would rather lose the Olympics with their version of team Canada, then win with a team comprised entirely of players from "English Canada" That is the reality.
I don't personally think the bolded part is true; at least, I hope its not. Do you have any sources for that statement (just curious)? Regardless, we have decent options in Bergeron, Luongo, and Letang for 2014 so its a moot point....

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09-19-2012, 12:56 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
I don't personally think the bolded part is true; at least, I hope its not. Do you have any sources for that statement (just curious)? Regardless, we have decent options in Bergeron, Luongo, and Letang for 2014 so its a moot point....
Nobody at HC has ever worded it like that...but rest assured there will never be any version Team Canada that is not representative of the "dual makeup" of the country and if that means the team is not as strong as it otherwise would be, then HC is more than willing to roll the dice on that bet.

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09-19-2012, 08:21 PM
  #404
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Which players (that have a chance) do you think have their chances hurt by a lockout

I say
Spezza
Eberle
Hall
RNH
Benn
Tovares

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09-19-2012, 09:16 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by saskriders View Post
Which players (that have a chance) do you think have their chances hurt by a lockout

I say
Spezza
Eberle
Hall
RNH
Benn
Tovares
Essentially young guys on the bubble and vets who had down years last year. Tavares is a lock IMO, so I don't think his chances are hurt. Eberle is a near-lock and has probably already proven enough, so same goes for him. Hall already has a good chance of making it, but a good season would certainly bolster his chances and solidify his roster spot. RNH, Benn, Kane, Skinner, and Seguin are classic bubble guys who will have to somehow prove themselves (to varying degrees - ie, Seguin is a pretty good bet to make it already, while the rest are somewhat long shots) so the lockout will definitely hurt them.

Our last impression of Getzlaf was a 9 goal season and a stupid penalty in the WHC quarters that cost us a chance at advancing, so he needs a strong bounce-back season. Same goes for Perry and Staal - the lockout probably hurts them too. Spezza has no chance in he!! of making this team unfortunately, so the lockout has no impact on him. The rest of the forward group is pretty well locked up in my view, so the guys I mentioned above plus the likes of Sharp, Jordan Staal, may have limited opportunities to prove themselves to Hockey Canada.

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09-19-2012, 09:42 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
Essentially young guys on the bubble and vets who had down years last year. Tavares is a lock IMO, so I don't think his chances are hurt. Eberle is a near-lock and has probably already proven enough, so same goes for him. Hall already has a good chance of making it, but a good season would certainly bolster his chances and solidify his roster spot. RNH, Benn, Kane, Skinner, and Seguin are classic bubble guys who will have to somehow prove themselves (to varying degrees - ie, Seguin is a pretty good bet to make it already, while the rest are somewhat long shots) so the lockout will definitely hurt them.

Our last impression of Getzlaf was a 9 goal season and a stupid penalty in the WHC quarters that cost us a chance at advancing, so he needs a strong bounce-back season. Same goes for Perry and Staal - the lockout probably hurts them too. Spezza has no chance in he!! of making this team unfortunately, so the lockout has no impact on him. The rest of the forward group is pretty well locked up in my view, so the guys I mentioned above plus the likes of Sharp, Jordan Staal, may have limited opportunities to prove themselves to Hockey Canada.
I wouldn't say Hall has a "good chance" I would put him on the bubble.

Also, (even though I am a homer) I don't understand why Spezza has no chance. I don't think he is a lock, and if he made the team he would be bottom 6/13th forward, but to say he has no chance is to ignore a great player. Even when he misses a bunch of games to injury he is about point per game, and when he stays healthy he is usually top 15 or 10 in scoring (last year he was top 5)

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09-19-2012, 09:56 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by saskriders View Post
I wouldn't say Hall has a "good chance" I would put him on the bubble.

Also, (even though I am a homer) I don't understand why Spezza has no chance. I don't think he is a lock, and if he made the team he would be bottom 6/13th forward, but to say he has no chance is to ignore a great player. Even when he misses a bunch of games to injury he is about point per game, and when he stays healthy he is usually top 15 or 10 in scoring (last year he was top 5)
I'm a fan of Spezza too, but he's never been asked to play for team Canada at an international best-on-best tournament and was actually turned away by Hockey Canada for this past spring's WHCs. So he can score all he wants, but he's not beating out Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux, Toews, Tavares, Richards, or Bergeron for a spot on this team. Not to mention Getzlaf and Staal.

Hall's speed will get him on the team, he's exactly the kind of guy we need on the international ice surface. Of course he needs to stay healthy though (which is a big if for him). So I'd put him down as a good bet, not a lock but a good bet - he's got a better chance in my view than the other youngsters on the bubble.

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Old
09-19-2012, 09:58 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
I'm a fan of Spezza too, but he's never been asked to play for team Canada at an international best-on-best tournament and was actually turned away by Hockey Canada for this past spring's WHCs. So he can score all he wants, but he's not beating out Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux, Toews, Tavares, Richards, or Bergeron for a spot on this team. Not to mention Getzlaf and Staal.
Not saying he will beat them out, but I think that Spezza can be better then some of the other guys on the team, lots of Olympic teams have had centres at wing

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09-19-2012, 10:19 PM
  #409
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If I had to pick the team for tomorrow Hall would be on the team and i'll give you my reasons why.

Skating skills and nose for net.

We will require that in 2014 and don,t kid yourself, a dynamic skater/shooter is necessary.The pace must be maintained.

I know he has not established himself as a bona fide NHL star yet but let's not quibble over such things when discussing these matters.

What he does do is keep the pace up until we can change the flow of the game.

No-one's asking him to be Wayne , just to score a big goal or two at the most important times, while not ruining Our day defensively

I have such high hopes that he can be my new Glen Anderson.

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09-19-2012, 11:49 PM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Nobody at HC has ever worded it like that...but rest assured there will never be any version Team Canada that is not representative of the "dual makeup" of the country and if that means the team is not as strong as it otherwise would be, then HC is more than willing to roll the dice on that bet.
We'll probably end up Fleury again...and I'm sure they'll pass Giroux off as a French Canadian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saskriders View Post
I wouldn't say Hall has a "good chance" I would put him on the bubble.
I think so, too. He's been injured for part of his first two seasons - will likely play only a partial season (if one occurs) this year b/c of the lockout - hasn't played at either of the last two WCs (I know that's not his fault) and has no NHL playoff experience. I think it would be risky putting him in the Olympics when the last "big tournament" experience he's had on Euro ice was WJC...this is particularly in light of the fact that we have significant depth at forward to choose from for 2014 (moreso than 2010). I'm not saying that he's not a great player...I'm just saying that there are only so many spaces and there are too many others I'd put in front of him.

With that said...I won't start whining if he makes it or anything - i have no personal pique against the guy. And on the upside for him, Yzerman really seems to like him.


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Old
09-19-2012, 11:53 PM
  #411
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I sense discension in the ranks.

We can't have that.


You're on the ship or you deserve to get knocked over.

You make the call.

Let's get things decided here while we can.

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09-19-2012, 11:56 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by espo View Post
I sense discension in the ranks.

We can't have that.


You're on the ship or you deserve to get knocked over.

You make the call.

Let's get things decided here while we can.
And once we do...we'll let you tell Yzerman the big news.

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Old
09-20-2012, 12:13 AM
  #413
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The only problem is..........................I have limited faith in what you can do when push comes to shove.

Call me pessimestic.

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09-20-2012, 04:11 AM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Mehar View Post
I have the same forwards, but Jamie Benn and Bergeron do not belong on the list. Bergeron was terrible in Vancouver. His minutes got slashed from the start of the tournament to the end. He was terrible in the faceoffs, looked slow, and contributed nothing. He had Crosby taken off his line and was the 13th forward by the end of the tournament. I rather have Seguin on the big ice than Bergeron. Next instead of Benn, I would put a guy like Taylor Hall or Skinner on the team. Skinner was impressive in this year's WHC. He looked great on the big ice and played much better than Jamie Benn who did not impress me that much. I frankly think there are others that are ahead of Benn right now. No disrespect to Benn.
I don't disagree with you, about Bergeron. I probably wouldn't want him on the roster, it's more that I think he has a very real chance of being on the roster after being apart of the Gold Medal winning 2010 team.

As for Benn I put him in over Hall, because I like Benn's overall game better, and think he'd look great along the two Ducks. Even though I have Staal on the forth line, it's that 3rd line left wing spot that I think is open for whomever impresses most heading into 2014.

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Old
09-20-2012, 04:29 AM
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espo View Post
If I had to pick the team for tomorrow Hall would be on the team and i'll give you my reasons why.

Skating skills and nose for net.

We will require that in 2014 and don,t kid yourself, a dynamic skater/shooter is necessary.The pace must be maintained.

I know he has not established himself as a bona fide NHL star yet but let's not quibble over such things when discussing these matters.

What he does do is keep the pace up until we can change the flow of the game.

No-one's asking him to be Wayne , just to score a big goal or two at the most important times, while not ruining Our day defensively

I have such high hopes that he can be my new Glen Anderson.
I have Hall there as well. I have Hall and Seguin, sometimes teaming up on a 5 on 3...if they get a long one and Stamkos-Crosby-Giroux didn't light the lamp... go young, go fast or go home... That's my philosophy.

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Old
09-20-2012, 09:33 AM
  #416
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Yep, young and fast with some veteran talent mixed in that can still carry the mail.

We don't want to be a team that makes mistakes like Russia where it all just looks good on paper and we start to beak off but then you see them on the ice and an AHL team could clearly thrash them.

That we don't need..................let's leave that stuff that they do best to them.

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09-20-2012, 09:46 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
I have Hall there as well. I have Hall and Seguin, sometimes teaming up on a 5 on 3...if they get a long one and Stamkos-Crosby-Giroux didn't light the lamp... go young, go fast or go home... That's my philosophy.
Hall and Seguin would fit in well on this team; I'd even say that we need them on the team to inject speed into our top lines (even if they don't play on those lines regularly). We don't have much speed down the right side (Perry, Eberle, Giroux) in particular, so it won't hurt to have Seguin take an odd shift with Crosby or Stamkos to give the opposition a different look.

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09-20-2012, 10:06 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by 23 17 23 View Post
I don't disagree with you, about Bergeron. I probably wouldn't want him on the roster, it's more that I think he has a very real chance of being on the roster after being apart of the Gold Medal winning 2010 team.

As for Benn I put him in over Hall, because I like Benn's overall game better, and think he'd look great along the two Ducks. Even though I have Staal on the forth line, it's that 3rd line left wing spot that I think is open for whomever impresses most heading into 2014.
I don't think that line would look good on the international ice - Perry is a below average skater, Getzlaf is average to slightly below average (for a centerman), and Benn is average. They'd be prone to counter-attack. If the Ducks are there, we'd need someone like Hall, Nash or Staal on the left side to bring a bit more speed to that line. As it stands right now, I don't have Getzlaf on my team anyway, but he's on the short list. As is Benn.

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09-20-2012, 11:29 AM
  #419
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the lockout can change a thing or two...

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09-22-2012, 03:40 AM
  #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espo View Post
Yep, young and fast with some veteran talent mixed in that can still carry the mail.

We don't want to be a team that makes mistakes like Russia where it all just looks good on paper and we start to beak off but then you see them on the ice and an AHL team could clearly thrash them.

That we don't need..................let's leave that stuff that they do best to them.
One of my biggest concerns is we're going to have a team that looks great on paper and doesn't do well w/ each other (i'm esp. talking about our forwards).

Goal isn't as much of an issue...b/c i'm not anticipating that position looking overly impressive on paper

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09-22-2012, 08:47 AM
  #421
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One of my biggest concerns is we're going to have a team that looks great on paper and doesn't do well w/ each other (i'm esp. talking about our forwards).

Goal isn't as much of an issue...b/c i'm not anticipating that position looking overly impressive on paper
Ya, I get your point sort of... HC should be on top of it and if it looks as though this lockout will wipe out the year, then the order goes out to all, show up for the World Championships if you are chosen..no excuses...I don't care what the insurance costs for Team Canada players... Hockey Canada better pony up for the full nut. Time to open up that war chest they sit on top of...There better be at least 15 A-listers show up should the NHL season be wiped out. I don't care if they are already locks for 2014.. I've had enough of HC dickin around with this tournament..

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09-22-2012, 09:44 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by saskriders View Post
Which players (that have a chance) do you think have their chances hurt by a lockout

I say
Spezza
Eberle
Hall
RNH
Benn
Tovares


Tavares is really close to be a lock for this team.




In my opinion, Spezza has a chance at least. But I don't know where his spot on the roster would be. To my mind, one of the trio Getzlaf, Thornton, Spezza will make the team. It would surprise me if not happend, because they all have decent passing ability + quite good puck-handling too.

But there are a lot of options and it's hard to say somebody is a lock. For me only Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux and Toews are on the team right now. (+ Weber, Letang and Doughty on the defence)

// sorry for my average english, I will do my best to improve it.

This is my olympic take:

Tavares - Crosby - Giroux
Nash - Stamkos - St. Louis
E.Staal - Toews - Eberle
Sharp - Bergeron - Perry
13th: Seguin

Letang - Weber
Doughty - Pietrangelo
Keith - Seabrook
7th: Del Zotto

Price, Fleury, Luongo

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09-22-2012, 11:36 AM
  #423
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Or what about Tavares - Crosby - Eberle line ? There is something scary about it. I've been thinking about a roster with Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux and Toews all at center.


Tavares - Crosby - Eberle

Nash - Giroux - Seguin

Hall - Stamkos - St.Louis

Bergeron / E.Staal - Toews - Perry

13th: Spezza / Sharp / E.Kane

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09-22-2012, 12:02 PM
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Hockey Fan View Post
Tavares is really close to be a lock for this team.




In my opinion, Spezza has a chance at least. But I don't know where his spot on the roster would be. To my mind, one of the trio Getzlaf, Thornton, Spezza will make the team. It would surprise me if not happend, because they all have decent passing ability + quite good puck-handling too.

But there are a lot of options and it's hard to say somebody is a lock. For me only Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux and Toews are on the team right now. (+ Weber, Letang and Doughty on the defence)

// sorry for my average english, I will do my best to improve it.

This is my olympic take:

Tavares - Crosby - Giroux
Nash - Stamkos - St. Louis
E.Staal - Toews - Eberle
Sharp - Bergeron - Perry
13th: Seguin

Letang - Weber
Doughty - Pietrangelo
Keith - Seabrook
7th: Del Zotto

Price, Fleury, Luongo
I highly doubt St-Louis will be in the team, since he will be around 40 years old and wasn't in the 2010 olympic team, there are better option than Sharp and Bergeron.
Seguin might make the team, if he continues to improve. M.Richards shoud make it. There way more better defensement tha Del Zotte, such as M.Staal or Pk. Subban

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09-22-2012, 12:11 PM
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Hockey Fan View Post
Tavares is really close to be a lock for this team.

In my opinion, Spezza has a chance at least. But I don't know where his spot on the roster would be. To my mind, one of the trio Getzlaf, Thornton, Spezza will make the team. It would surprise me if not happend, because they all have decent passing ability + quite good puck-handling too.

But there are a lot of options and it's hard to say somebody is a lock. For me only Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux and Toews are on the team right now. (+ Weber, Letang and Doughty on the defence)

// sorry for my average english, I will do my best to improve it.

This is my olympic take:

Tavares - Crosby - Giroux
Nash - Stamkos - St. Louis
E.Staal - Toews - Eberle
Sharp - Bergeron - Perry
13th: Seguin

Letang - Weber
Doughty - Pietrangelo
Keith - Seabrook
7th: Del Zotto

Price, Fleury, Luongo
I'd take Burns, Staal, Subban & Myers over Del Zotto, but in 2014 he could be there, but I think those 4 will still be better than him by then.

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