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Old
09-19-2012, 04:18 PM
  #176
Buddy The Elf
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Frozen Fuy Canceled

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09-19-2012, 04:24 PM
  #177
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=641879

NHL announces cancellation of preseason schedule through Sept. 30

NEW YORK – The National Hockey League announced today the cancellation of the 2012 preseason schedule through Sept. 30. In addition, the 2012 Kraft Hockeyville preseason game, scheduled for Oct. 3 in Belleville, Ontario, has been postponed to 2013.

The cancellation of the schedule was necessary because of the absence of a Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NHL Players’ Association and the NHL.

While the Kraft Hockeyville game has been postponed, many of the scheduled celebrations in the winning community of Stirling-Rawdon, Ontario, will proceed as planned beginning on Sept. 30.

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09-19-2012, 05:10 PM
  #178
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But how does that make a competitive league? Well, I think in the NHL's eyes...they want everyone one day, every team to be able to spend to the cap. That way EVERYONE is competitive.
As it should be, and the only way that is going to happen is with revenue sharing among the teams.

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With unlimited spending what's to keep the New York Rangers from throwing ungoldy money at every single free agent
Nothing. I don't think I said I was for that did I?

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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Will people for the love of god please stop comparing this to every day jobs and every day American living.

These guys are the furthest from it. This is a special circumstance. Very special. You can't even begin to compare my 9.75 an hour, 800 dollars a month part time job in retail to a professional hockey player making 600K on a league minimum contract. You can't compare a performance review of an NHL player who has an agent, two houses, and an advertising deal with Reebok to a guy who works 9-5 for 45k a year as a mechanic.

You aren't even comparing apples and oranges at this point, or even apples and giraffes...you are comparing apples and quantum physics.
Sorry man, but I disagree with you on this completely. Just because the pay scale changes doesn't mean the principles do. It's not about "relating" to the average American. The same applies to doctors, lawyers, and your aforementioned mechanics, teachers, whatever. People are compensated according to the demand for their services. These guys are top 1% at what they do and they are compensated accordingly, but it doesn't mean they should get bent over by their boss whenever just because you and your $9.75/hr job think they should be able to get by with less. If you really want to do something about it, get your ass to the gym 20-30 hours a week, spend every other waking hour for 15 years at a rink developing your game, and then go play in the NHL for less to drive salaries down.


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09-19-2012, 05:23 PM
  #179
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Sorry man, but I disagree with you on this completely. Just because the pay scale changes doesn't mean the principles do. It's not about "relating" to the average American. The same applies to doctors, lawyers, and your aforementioned mechanics, teachers, whatever. People are compensated according to the demand for their services. These guys are top 1% at what they do and they are compensated accordingly, but it doesn't mean they should get bent over by their boss whenever just because you and your $9.75/hr job think they should be able to get by with less. If you really want to do something about it, get your ass to the gym 20-30 hours a week, spend every other waking hour for 15 years at a rink developing your game, and then go play in the NHL for less to drive salaries down.

Well, yes and no. Of course the principle is similar, but their pay scale is also out of whack with the general public, it's hard to take the players' side.

The players also have an average of a 5 year career and their average salary is (was?) $2.45m. Not too shabby I'd say. And for the hardship of going on 6 - 8 road trips during the season, having a Christmas break - oh yeah, and doing this for 9 months a year.

I realize they are the most skilled in the world at what they do, and they deserve to be compensated accordingly... I just think the $2.45m "should" be more than adequate, while it seems some players think Bobby Holik getting $9m was just fine, or even an underpayment.

And "doctors, lawyers, and your aforementioned mechanics, teachers" - they perform their skills for a lifetime, while hockey players get a finite # of seasons / games, and that's it. Would you be willing to pass on a season making $2.45m to try to make a point? Just to "beat" the owners at their own game?? Who really cares - you already got your money. The owners are just trying to ensure they also turn a profit.

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Old
09-19-2012, 05:30 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
As it should be, and the only way that is going to happen is with revenue sharing among the teams.



Nothing. I don't think I said I was for that did I?



Sorry man, but I disagree with you on this completely. Just because the pay scale changes doesn't mean the principles do. It's not about "relating" to the average American. The same applies to doctors, lawyers, and your aforementioned mechanics, teachers, whatever. People are compensated according to the demand for their services. These guys are top 1% at what they do and they are compensated accordingly, but it doesn't mean they should get bent over by their boss whenever just because you and your $9.75/hr job think they should be able to get by with less. If you really want to do something about it, get your ass to the gym 20-30 hours a week, spend every other waking hour for 15 years at a rink developing your game, and then go play in the NHL for less to drive salaries down.

In order to avoid getting paid less, they'll take nothing. Makes sense but definitely not cents! ba dump chh! But really, I don't think anyone thinks the players should get bent over. Do you really think they are getting bent over in these negotiations? From everything I've read, the players have done very well under the last CBA and are actually taking a bigger percentage than other sports leagues and they are looking to keep it that way.

I'm all ears to hear/read, exactly how the owners are screwing them. Who is screwing the owners that aren't making a penny and are losing each season?

I mentioned this before but I work for a Fortune 200 company and our expense are ~30% including every piece of real estate rented, every pen and piece of paper and all employees salaries. You know who decides that amount? The stockholders aka the owners of the company. So if we are making comaprisons, who is really getting screwed here? I don't have a say if they want to fold one of our offices. i don't have a say if they want to cut staff. The players are afforded a luxury that a lot of Americans don't have. Sitting out for zero dollars in hopes of getting more while losing even more in the process isn't a good business decision. It also doesn't make the people that help pay your salaries relate to your plight.

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Old
09-19-2012, 05:33 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
And "doctors, lawyers, and your aforementioned mechanics, teachers" - they perform their skills for a lifetime, while hockey players get a finite # of seasons / games, and that's it. Would you be willing to pass on a season making $2.45m to try to make a point? Just to "beat" the owners at their own game?? Who really cares - you already got your money. The owners are just trying to ensure they also turn a profit.
And that is their right. They own the businesses. Just like the stockholders of the company I work for want to squeeze out every penny they can from the company sparing no expense of employee welfare or what uprooting an office from one part of the country/world to another would do to those employees. If the players are getting the shaft from the owners (and again, the owners have plenty of blame too - I'm just sick of the "boohoo" from the players side, i can't relate), then what is the rest of American getting? What they deserve?

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09-19-2012, 11:29 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
You should post this on the main board.

A little talk from a star player that went thru the last lockout.

The players can whine all they want, but they don't realize how good they have it.
Interesting to see how Modano's perspective changed since the last lockout. As some here remember, he was quoted as saying playing for $400 per week in the minors "wouldn't pay for my dog's food for a month."

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09-20-2012, 12:03 AM
  #183
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1261599

Anyone that thinks eliminating a few "loser franchises" will solve anything really need to read this thread. I posted about this before, but it just makes the middle class the lower class. As it stands right now, the current cap is >57% of revenue of all but of about 10 teams in the league. That is unsustainable, if it was closer to 15-18 and there was a little more revenue sharing I think things would be working much smoother.

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Old
09-20-2012, 12:50 AM
  #184
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so even winning the cup the kigns still lost money, jesus.

and how the **** does toronto make so much money is it some tv deal or something......

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Old
09-20-2012, 12:52 AM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Sorry man, but I disagree with you on this completely. Just because the pay scale changes doesn't mean the principles do. It's not about "relating" to the average American. The same applies to doctors, lawyers, and your aforementioned mechanics, teachers, whatever. People are compensated according to the demand for their services. These guys are top 1% at what they do and they are compensated accordingly, but it doesn't mean they should get bent over by their boss whenever just because you and your $9.75/hr job think they should be able to get by with less. If you really want to do something about it, get your ass to the gym 20-30 hours a week, spend every other waking hour for 15 years at a rink developing your game, and then go play in the NHL for less to drive salaries down.

Yes, yes, a million times yes.

Trying to make into the NHL is boom or bust, with a hell of a lot more busts than boom. Minus college hockey players, many of these guys essentially have to start from square one if they don't make it because the sheer amount of time they spent training their entire childhood basically took away any time to learn any other employable skills in school. As Bandit said, people are paid based on the demand for their skills, and even if they make more than the average joe, they've done a hell of a lot more than the average joe to get to where they are.

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Old
09-20-2012, 12:52 AM
  #186
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09-20-2012, 12:58 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
so even winning the cup the kigns still lost money, jesus....
There is NFW the Kings lost money last year. NFW. Perfect example of why the owner's can't be trusted re: accounting.

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:13 AM
  #188
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There is NFW the Kings lost money last year. NFW. Perfect example of why the owner's can't be trusted re: accounting.
there was that one year when the kings went deep in the PO and they let a fan who was an accountant look at their books and he verified they lost money. so yea who knows

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09-20-2012, 01:18 AM
  #189
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The thing that chaps my *** is that they cry "we just want to play" and "we're ready to get to the table and hammer out a deal whenever they want" from both sides, making lame videos for youtube and posting lame press releases on the NHL.com website and yet they are not negotiating. Bunch of whining babies on both sides.
To me, both sides are to blame. The owners because, they can't hand out the deals they've been handing out...cough...Parise & Suter....cough....and expect for the players to give back as much as they are expecting them to give back. The players because they had a chance to start negotiating last year. They blew it off, then they were asked to start negotiating at the All-Star break. They blew that off as well. They finally meet with the NHL 1 ****ing time during the playoffs, and to top it all off take weeks to respond to the NHL's first proposal. The players are to blame for dragging this out to the very last minute and then cry when they are locked out. What did they expect?
Now they both sit, feeding the fans a mouth full of crap, like the game is stronger and more profitable than ever before. If it's that way, than why go through all this and damage what was a league that was, as they say, on the upswing?
It'll be just like the last lockout. In my opinion the players won't win. The players will finally fold, give into the owners demands, going through all this for not, and hopefully they'll oust Fehr like they did Goodenow.

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Old
09-20-2012, 05:47 AM
  #190
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There is NFW the Kings lost money last year. NFW. Perfect example of why the owner's can't be trusted re: accounting.
Yes, the report is that they lost money last year. And sure it can happen. The Sharks sold out every game last year and still found a way to lose money. Anyone who understands the revenue stream and the high salaries the players are getting AND the lack of a consistent television contract also understands that most teams will operate in the red and that's just the way it is.

Now, they are not hemorrhaging like Coyotes, Predators, and Devils have been, but they are not "pie in the sky" either.

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Old
09-20-2012, 07:06 AM
  #191
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Do they mean calendar year? Because I can understand them losing money in 2011... But if they actually lost money this past season with them going all the way I don't know what to say.

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09-20-2012, 07:36 AM
  #192
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Do they mean calendar year? Because I can understand them losing money in 2011... But if they actually lost money this past season with them going all the way I don't know what to say.
It's hockey. It doesn't make any money. AEG was very patient. The best thing they did was build L.A. Live. That and Staples Center is the crux of the purchase for any buyer. The sports teams involved are for ****.

And that's the bottom line.

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09-20-2012, 09:27 AM
  #193
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The only reason a lot of NFL Franchises make money, is the T.V. Deal.

That is why every person with money, wants an NFL team.

The NFL can have success anywhere in the states. It doesn't matter where you put it, the T.V. Deal will carry it.

Hockey does not have that Luxury, I can believe the Kings lost money last season.

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09-20-2012, 09:31 AM
  #194
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there was that one year when the kings went deep in the PO and they let a fan who was an accountant look at their books and he verified they lost money. so yea who knows
The only time the Kings went deep into the playoffs was last season and '93 so that can't be accurate. I believe Piston looked at the books in a non-playoff season but I could be wrong.

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09-20-2012, 10:50 AM
  #195
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The only time the Kings went deep into the playoffs was last season and '93 so that can't be accurate. I believe Piston looked at the books in a non-playoff season but I could be wrong.
deep, well to me anyways for the kings is the second round

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09-20-2012, 11:09 AM
  #196
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In order to avoid getting paid less, they'll take nothing.
A lot of the players are making money even if there's no NHL season.

The pay of other leagues, relative to the NHL, is better than it's ever been.

During the last work stoppage, players didn't have as many options as they have today. Guy's that are going over to the KHL right now are getting paid a significant amount of money. The players can afford to wait things out longer than they did last time. It could be a long, long time be we ever see an NHL game again.

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09-20-2012, 11:26 AM
  #197
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A lot of the players are making money even if there's no NHL season.

The pay of other leagues, relative to the NHL, is better than it's ever been.

During the last work stoppage, players didn't have as many options as they have today. Guy's that are going over to the KHL right now are getting paid a significant amount of money. The players can afford to wait things out longer than they did last time. It could be a long, long time be we ever see an NHL game again.
Oh, so the NHL union members will just take the job of some lower level schmuck player, whether he's union or not... and chances are the minor league player needs the money a lot more than the NHL player.

Nice!

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09-20-2012, 11:49 AM
  #198
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so even winning the cup the kigns still lost money, jesus.

and how the **** does toronto make so much money is it some tv deal or something......
Ticket prices here are through the roof. I think my tickets were $75 each and we were 3 rows from the top. The platinum ones are ridiculous. People here buy tons of sweaters and other NHL gear so that's how they make so much. Cities in the US aren't even close and keep in mind, kids 10 and under have never even seen a Leaf playoff game. It's been like this forever, packed houses, every games a sell out, team sucks.

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09-20-2012, 12:32 PM
  #199
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Oh, so the NHL union members will just take the job of some lower level schmuck player, whether he's union or not... and chances are the minor league player needs the money a lot more than the NHL player.

Nice!
Yup, the NHL union members who sign over seas are taking the job of 1 player, so they're scabs. That's why I don't think this thing will get settled soon. The owners are in a take it or leave it stance and they have the luxury of money behind them to do that. What they're offering the players is suicide if they take it. Not a good deal to sign when you get less and less money-when the next CBA comes the precedent has been set (the owners will ask them to take less money next time). And then you have the weak players union where as soon as the doors are shut they're off to Europe. So you have 2 parties who don't need anything to get settled, 1 side can wait it out, the other side is already off working another job!

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09-20-2012, 12:37 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1261599

Anyone that thinks eliminating a few "loser franchises" will solve anything really need to read this thread. I posted about this before, but it just makes the middle class the lower class. As it stands right now, the current cap is >57% of revenue of all but of about 10 teams in the league. That is unsustainable, if it was closer to 15-18 and there was a little more revenue sharing I think things would be working much smoother.
So you can see that this model is unsustainable...


yet hunders of NHL players, agents, and labor lawyers can't or don't.


Fun.

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