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And we are locked out again (No Progress ,, Talks collapse)

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Old
09-18-2012, 12:00 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
He's treating the NHLPA like Team USA. We can count on his consistency.
he was the dominant player on his buffalo house league over the summer - so he's definitely trying to be high skilled in his preparation.

the canadian butt hurt over the lockout is hilarious. On CBC radio (i.e. CBCs radio morning show) they didn't both trying to figure what was what with the lockout...they instead dedicated a bunch of the show to discuss why Gary Bettman was an As**hole. .. and in doing so, mentioned they were picking up on discussion from last week.

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09-18-2012, 02:39 AM
  #27
Jeffrey Lebowski
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IMO, anyone who pins this lockout on the owners is out of their mind, bat-**** crazy. Maybe the owners are demanding ridiculous concessions... maybe the NHLPA is asking for too much... regardless, the NHLPA can't possibly think that they're going to win this battle. To me, it's all about realizing your limitations... and the NHLPA hasn't done that.

Ultimately, the league is going to win this. And the NHLPA doesn't have the control and unity of the players that it thinks it does... so for a deal and season to happen, both sides need to recognize this. I honestly don't think Fehr believes this and therefore, the players don't believe this. They believe that this is about retaliation instead of taking a step back and looking at the situation for what it is: a battle between the weak and the strong.

If the owners decide to lockout for the whole season, they can and will... and at a very (relatively) affordable cost. The players and union cannot afford the same type of concession... and that's what they need to realize before they eventually cave in to whatever the league demands anyways.

The league will win this. The players cannot. They have a lot more at stake than the owners and no matter what happened in the 04-05 lockout, the players cannot achieve retribution for that (in the way that they'd like).

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09-18-2012, 02:49 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski View Post
IMO, anyone who pins this lockout on the owners is out of their mind, bat-**** crazy. Maybe the owners are demanding ridiculous concessions... maybe the NHLPA is asking for too much... regardless, the NHLPA can't possibly think that they're going to win this battle. To me, it's all about realizing your limitations... and the NHLPA hasn't done that.

Ultimately, the league is going to win this. And the NHLPA doesn't have the control and unity of the players that it thinks it does... so for a deal and season to happen, both sides need to recognize this. I honestly don't think Fehr believes this and therefore, the players don't believe this. They believe that this is about retaliation instead of taking a step back and looking at the situation for what it is: a battle between the weak and the strong.

If the owners decide to lockout for the whole season, they can and will... and at a very (relatively) affordable cost. The players and union cannot afford the same type of concession... and that's what they need to realize before they eventually cave in to whatever the league demands anyways.

The league will win this. The players cannot. They have a lot more at stake than the owners and no matter what happened in the 04-05 lockout, the players cannot achieve retribution for that (in the way that they'd like).
from a media standpoint, keep in mind the canadian press is totally 100% batsh**t...leaving aside all the bad southern markets in the US, Phoenix gets whined about constantly in Canada (b/c a a cdn tried to buy it and move it here) - but the one that makes ppl up here crazy is columbus ... it's actually kind of strange b/c there are other US teams that are a bit weird as hockey markets...but for some reason columbus sets people off

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09-18-2012, 08:39 AM
  #29
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from a media standpoint, keep in mind the canadian press is totally 100% batsh**t...leaving aside all the bad southern markets in the US, Phoenix gets whined about constantly in Canada (b/c a a cdn tried to buy it and move it here) - but the one that makes ppl up here crazy is columbus ... it's actually kind of strange b/c there are other US teams that are a bit weird as hockey markets...but for some reason columbus sets people off
I went to a Hawks game there last year, fans are pretty dedicated, good crowd.

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09-18-2012, 09:13 AM
  #30
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he was the dominant player on his buffalo house league over the summer - so he's definitely trying to be high skilled in his preparation.
Happy to hear, lol.

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09-18-2012, 09:20 AM
  #31
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I wonder how much bigger the list will be of NHL players that sign in Europe by the end of the week.

The landscape is a little different than last time, I wonder if the lesser players (and the Swedes?) will be a little bit more uncomfortable without having a paycheck compared to last time.

I can see the agents being a little less excited about a lockout this time as well. They have far less to gain and just as much more to lose this time around compared to last time as well.

It'll be interesting seeing how the different groups of players and their agents act this time around.

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09-19-2012, 07:33 AM
  #32
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don't know if this is old information, but Toews could play for EV Zug in Switzerland if there's a lockout.



Dennis Bernstein
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Possible lockout landing: #Blackhawks Toews #Habs Pacioretty #Oilers Gagner to Swiss A Ev Zug per Finnish outlet Italehti

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09-19-2012, 03:37 PM
  #33
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I quite frankly don't care if they ever play again. *shrug* I'm so indifferent...I find it hard to imagine I could possibly care less. I remember several years back how upset I got at not having hockey to watch. Then the last lockout happened. And now this one. And I simply do...not...care. There's plenty of blame to go around...but at the end of the day, the fact that players making millions of dollars...can't be bothered to play the game, is just unreal. And each time some moron from the NHLPA opens his mouth about the situation, I just lose more and more respect. I hope they all go to Europe and stay there....make a fraction of what they'd be making with the rollback that was requested by the NHL.

I simply don't have the passion for the game anymore. About the time I get excited, the labor deal's up...and we start all over. Too many other activities to spend ones money on that are as enjoyable and don't involve all this mickey mouse bs.

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09-19-2012, 05:54 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judrix View Post
don't know if this is old information, but Toews could play for EV Zug in Switzerland if there's a lockout.



Dennis Bernstein
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Possible lockout landing: #Blackhawks Toews #Habs Pacioretty #Oilers Gagner to Swiss A Ev Zug per Finnish outlet Italehti
Kane, too?



In other news, pre-season's been cancelled through Sept. 30.

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Old
09-19-2012, 08:54 PM
  #35
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I quite frankly don't care if they ever play again. *shrug* I'm so indifferent...I find it hard to imagine I could possibly care less. I remember several years back how upset I got at not having hockey to watch. Then the last lockout happened. And now this one. And I simply do...not...care. There's plenty of blame to go around...but at the end of the day, the fact that players making millions of dollars...can't be bothered to play the game, is just unreal. And each time some moron from the NHLPA opens his mouth about the situation, I just lose more and more respect. I hope they all go to Europe and stay there....make a fraction of what they'd be making with the rollback that was requested by the NHL.

I simply don't have the passion for the game anymore. About the time I get excited, the labor deal's up...and we start all over. Too many other activities to spend ones money on that are as enjoyable and don't involve all this mickey mouse bs.
The owners make more than the players. And they don't actually play anything.

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09-19-2012, 10:28 PM
  #36
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The owners make more than the players. And they don't actually play anything.
This is the worst argument.

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Old
09-19-2012, 11:02 PM
  #37
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This is the worst argument.
Then you need to spend more time reading the "Business of Hockey" board more..because i can assure you there is much worse floated out there..on an hourly basis

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09-19-2012, 11:04 PM
  #38
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Well, zug seems loaded, better act fast Kaner.

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09-20-2012, 04:33 AM
  #39
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The owners make more than the players. And they don't actually play anything.
Is there any other business paradigm in the world outside of sports where the employees demand a fixed percentage of revenue in salary from the business owners? Problematically for some franchise owners in various sports, some of their employees do make a yearly salary that exceeds the year-end profit (= salary of the owner) of the corporation (=franchise).

Perhaps that kind of scenario might happen in a fledgling business, where an owner is trying to gain a foothold and takes little in salary out of the corporation while plowing money into it. However, there is no effin way I'd allow any of my employees to make more than me in any given year in my (well-established) business. It's my company, not theirs.

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09-20-2012, 05:27 AM
  #40
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Toews and Kane can come to the DEL and play for Augsburg if they want

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09-20-2012, 06:25 AM
  #41
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Is there any other business paradigm in the world outside of sports where the employees demand a fixed percentage of revenue in salary from the business owners?
Uhh, you got it ass backward. The owners were who demanded the players take a fixed percentage of revenue...

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09-20-2012, 07:06 AM
  #42
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Uhh, you got it ass backward. The owners were who demanded the players take a fixed percentage of revenue...
In all major sports now a "salary cap" of some sort exists so that teams that are very profitable don't spend an inequitable amount vis a vis teams that are not/less profitalbe, as well as to reduce overall operating costs. The cap was put in place as a fixed percentage in the NHL (vs a soft cap as in MLB, or a cap with circumventions as in the NBA) so that (for example) the Rangers wouldn't outspend Columbus by $75 million to ice a team.

A cap in the absurd world of sports entertainment salaries also prevents the owners from damaging the game due to payroll inequalities and spiraling costs. Finally, it should be noted that the costs for escalating salaries are passed along to the fan in the form of increased ticket prices, concessions, parking, etc... I surmise that you are too young to remember reasonable ticket prices to major league games. A family of four might easily spend now upwards of $500 (or more depending on the sport) to go to a major league game.

The paradigm of employees in some instances making more than an owners' annual profit exists with or without a salary cap in most major sports these days. This paradigm to my knowledge does not exist in any other business model. Please enlighten me with other examples if I'm misinformed.


Last edited by pvr: 09-20-2012 at 08:28 AM.
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Old
09-20-2012, 08:34 AM
  #43
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IMO, the NHL is not suited for a cap. It's best suited for a system like MLB has. In the NHL, you have a limited amount of wealthy teams but they are more than willing to spend to the sky. Let them and impose a stiff luxury tax for revenue sharing purposes. Everyone gets what they want/need. Get rid of the cap floor too, no need to force broke teams into further debt. I say the cap ceiling should be the luxury tax starting point.

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09-20-2012, 11:40 AM
  #44
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Well, zug seems loaded, better act fast Kaner.
Yeah I thought Zug already signed their maximum 3 foreigners, Toews Gagner and Pacioretty?

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09-20-2012, 11:44 AM
  #45
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/\ The players would be all for that but I donít think we want the rich teams buying championships like we see in baseball, and thatís exactly what would happen. It wouldnít take very long for the parity we see now to disappear.

On another note, seems neither Fehr and certainly not the owners, are in any hurry to get things done. No plans to meet this week. Brutal, the lack of respect they have for the game, the fans, and for all the regular people that are losing their livelihood due to their greed.

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09-20-2012, 12:02 PM
  #46
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To be honest, after the living hell of watching Detroit, Colorado and Dallas kick our ***** over and over again, I wouldn't mind seeing loaded Hawks teams like that. Maybe it would cheapen it but I'll decide after we see it.

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09-20-2012, 12:20 PM
  #47
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The owners threw away an entire year to get a hard cap in place. It will never go away.

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09-20-2012, 01:11 PM
  #48
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On another note, seems neither Fehr and certainly not the owners, are in any hurry to get things done. No plans to meet this week. Brutal, the lack of respect they have for the game, the fans, and for all the regular people that are losing their livelihood due to their greed.
That's definitely frustrating to see such a lack of urgency and desire to work on getting things resolved.

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09-20-2012, 01:26 PM
  #49
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sounds like Toews and Kane may go to the KHL if they go overseas

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:38 PM
  #50
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sounds like Toews and Kane may go to the KHL if they go overseas
where did you see that?

Quote:
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To be honest, after the living hell of watching Detroit, Colorado and Dallas kick our ***** over and over again, I wouldn't mind seeing loaded Hawks teams like that. Maybe it would cheapen it but I'll decide after we see it.
I agree. I don't mind loaded teams in baseball. I like the Yankees!

The downside of parity is it can make the game boring.

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