HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Chi - Ana

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-18-2012, 04:05 PM
  #51
DuckJet
#iamsorry
 
DuckJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Funkytown
Country: Kazakhstan
Posts: 32,869
vCash: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Assuming everybody waives their NMCs:
To Ducks
Brad Richards + Stepan

To Hawks
Getzlaf, Boyle

To Rangers
Sharp, Perry, Olsen, Saad, McNeil, Kruger


Rationale:

Ducks get a great 1a C similar to Getzlaf minus some of the offensive upside, who is locked in for several years. Not cheap, but less than anticipated increase Getz will demand. No hard evidence, but Getzlaf seems more highly regarded than Perry; so while not completely indifferent to give him away for nothing, moving Perry and getting Stepan, a solid 2c with upside for their top line W.

Hawks get complete overhaul at C, adding Getzlaf and Boyle to Toewz and Bolland. Because Rangers are gutting their Cs to accommodate, and Hawks wind up with Getzlaf, Rangers are entitled to overpayment.

the revised projected 3 lines were:
-Toews-Kane
-Getzlaf-Hossa
Shaw-Bolland-Stalberg

with Boyle in the mix, so another W will be needed, but Chicago can handle that.

The Rangers appear screwed at C, but live with Sharp as their 1c, and gamble on speedy JT Miller to replace Stepan with speedy wingmates Hagelin and Callahan. Faceoff guy Halperin is the 4c, so assuming signee Michael Haley is not the one, that leaves limited choices. You have Yogan, who is pressing and may be ready end of this year or early next. You have Kruger who is close, but probably not ready this year; or, as a stopgap, you can entertain Kreider, who has been being groomed as a W, but played C before going pro, at C. McNeil is also very close, but I understand he is W, less a possibility at C, though I'm not sure. Rupp has also been serviceable 4th line C.

The ONLY reason Rangers should even think about this is that they get enough overcompensation in other areas to make worthwhile gutting the C. So consider:

Nash Sharp Perry
Kreider Miller Gaborik
Hagelin Yogan Pyatt
Saad Halpern Asham/Rupp

If Saad is for real, right now, assuming he can't flop to RW, he makes the squad, and Rupp is trade bait [though if Yogan falters, Rupp could be 3c stopgap]. That still leaves:
Olsen -- makes the squad as #5 (third pair left) D, with upside to advance if bigger name is traded;
McNeil and Kruger valued assets who are really close

----------
It's a gamble
It's a reduction, but could be acceptable for Ducks.

It's a lot for Chicago to pay, but they get their man now without waiting for him to become UFA and take risk don't get him; it is a big risk assuming he does sign.

It's a risk for Rangers, though they move a big contract (just in case in a few years oh, say, Malkin might want to stretch his legs and leave Pitt.). There is zero established depth at C, but there is quality long term at the position.

Thoughts.....
Makes me want to scoop out my eyeballs with a a spork.

So essentially Perry+Getzlaf=Richards+Stepan. Murray would be fired on the spot for not hanging up for longer than two seconds.

DuckJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 12:31 AM
  #52
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
Getzlaf doesnt have anywhere near the same value as Toews would on his respective team.

More like your offer for Sharp/Kane
HAHA

How many PPG seasons has Toews had in his career?

Getzlaf has had FOUR

Don't go all intangibles on me either.

Whatever you'd want for Toews, then it's safe to assume that's the price for Getzlaf, not a bunch of secondary talent or prospects

KEEROLE Vatanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 12:33 AM
  #53
DontToewzMeBro
Registered User
 
DontToewzMeBro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
HAHA

How many PPG seasons has Toews had in his career?

Getzlaf has had FOUR

Don't go all intangibles on me either.

Whatever you'd want for Toews, then it's safe to assume that's the price for Getzlaf, not a bunch of secondary talent or prospects
I think if you polled 30 GMs 95 percent would choose Toews.
And most impartial fans too.

DontToewzMeBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 01:00 AM
  #54
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
How badly do Hawks want Getzlaf, and upgrade at 3c w/Boyle? And do so without trading more than two pieces offer their suggested line breakdown? Besides Sharp, there is no established regular given up, with the other names mostly a cup of coffee to date, with different schedules of when they will 'arrive'.

IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF the Ducks want to pay top dollar for Getzlaf, then simple, don't do this or any other trade including Getz, and pay the guy! The OP assumes the Hawks can make a satisfactory offer. But Chicago, like Anaheim, extremely thin at C. Rangers could satisfy both, but make themselves thinner still at the pivot in the process. So these two trading partners have to overpay. The Hawks pay with players, the Ducks downgrade. [Consider Richards about 80ish% of Getzlaf, Stepan about a third of Perry.] But if Ducks are not likely to pay big bucks for both, they either let both walk and go for cap space, or trade out. Richards is close to Getzlaf, the difference between Stepan and Perry is their real cost for this deal).
Getzlaf and Perry for Richards and Stepan

Seems legit.

KEEROLE Vatanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 01:01 AM
  #55
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
I think if you polled 30 GMs 95 percent would choose Toews.
And most impartial fans too.
That's cool perception does not = production

KEEROLE Vatanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 02:03 AM
  #56
DontToewzMeBro
Registered User
 
DontToewzMeBro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
That's cool perception does not = production
@ the Olympics you seen just how much better Toews is

DontToewzMeBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 04:21 AM
  #57
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
@ the Olympics you seen just how much better Toews is
And in the gold medal game who played more minutes?

KEEROLE Vatanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 04:33 AM
  #58
TheNeutrality
Living out a lie
 
TheNeutrality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,891
vCash: 50
Guys, cool down

It doesn't matter which player is the better one.
Fact is, that both players are incredibly valuable to their teams for the same reason: Both teams don't have a "legit" 2C.
If Toews leaves Chicago, they basically need to put Sharp at 1C
If Getzlaf leaves the Ducks, they are stuck with Saku Koivu as their 1C.

Therefore the OPs proposal will be answered with a "HELL NO!" by either the Ducks fans and the Ducks GM. The comparison with Toews isn't that far off (Not because Getzlaf is as good as Toews. I won't discuss that because it will end in a pissing match). If Toews gets traded without any decent Cs coming back, they have a huge hole down the middle. The Ducks have the same situation with Getzlaf.

So let's just say "No" to the OPs proposal and move on.

TheNeutrality is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 05:19 AM
  #59
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 22,582
vCash: 500
after Ryan >/= Kane we now have Getzlaf > Toews


keep em coming

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 06:14 AM
  #60
DontToewzMeBro
Registered User
 
DontToewzMeBro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
And in the gold medal game who played more minutes?
Haha, wow. Who scored in that game again?

DontToewzMeBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 06:50 AM
  #61
handyj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 136
vCash: 500
This whole Toews vs. Getzlaf argument is relatively pointless. I think the main point from this thread is that Getzlaf is very important to ANA just as Toews is very important to CHI. As an outside observer I see no reason why ANA would want to do this trade or any similar trade at this time.

If it were at the trade deadline and they were out of the picture and wanted a rebuild then maybe they'd consider trading Getzlaf for futures/a package but at this point I don't see why. CHI fans will probably not agree but at the start of the season ANA has probably just as good a chance as anyone (including CHI) to have a good season and make a run, so there's no reason for a fire sale yet.

handyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 12:30 PM
  #62
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 23,359
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
@ the Olympics you seen just how much better Toews is
8 games. Get back to me when Toews puts up 4 straight PPG seasons.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 07:01 PM
  #63
DontToewzMeBro
Registered User
 
DontToewzMeBro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
8 games. Get back to me when Toews puts up 4 straight PPG seasons.

Get back to me when Getzlaf is as good at playing center as Toews

DontToewzMeBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 08:24 PM
  #64
DisneyDucky
Registered User
 
DisneyDucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Linköping
Country: Sweden
Posts: 177
vCash: 500
Can we all try to stop this childish behaviour and just agree on that this deal aint gonna happen and getzy and toews hold equal value to their teams

DisneyDucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 09:37 PM
  #65
Crymson
Registered User
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
Get back to me when Getzlaf is as good at playing center as Toews
You're no doubt completely unbiased on this issue. Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
That's cool perception does not = production
I know from experience that you're not even remotely unbiased when it comes to the Ducks also.

I wager that neither Toews nor Getzlaf are as good as the two of you, respectively, believe they are.


Last edited by Crymson: 09-19-2012 at 09:48 PM.
Crymson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-19-2012, 09:39 PM
  #66
Crymson
Registered User
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Yes.
In this particular deal, the intent is not to swindle.
The deal is complete theft. And unsurprisingly, it's got your team doing the thievery.

Crymson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-20-2012, 08:18 AM
  #67
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,119
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Makes me want to scoop out my eyeballs with a a spork.

So essentially Perry+Getzlaf=Richards+Stepan. Murray would be fired on the spot for not hanging up for longer than two seconds.
Obviously, all things equal, bold is not true.

But all things are NOT equal.
If you are committed to re-sign Getzlaf at almost any number, that's one thing. Ditto Perry. However there is no awareness of any extension/new deal forthcoming. Conventional wisdom says no signing at current numbers to date, either new signings will not take place, or will be for top, top dollar with cap consequences.

Richards is comparable in age and about 80% of the talent, better in some ways, not the offensive weapon Getzlaf is. He is on a long term deal with a relatively good number, the longer you go in the deal the better that number is.

Perry and Stepan is a total mismatch talent wise. You do get first crack to extend Stepan at way less than what Perry will be.

As I explained, you and counterpart Hawk fans can't do this deal without a third team broker cause neither has enough C. To oblige BOTH of you, Rangers have to give up their 1st 3 Cs. That is why massive overpayment is needed/justified

Viewed in this context, acknowledging these true and real factors, the difference in value is closer.

Again, no one is putting a gun to anyone's head and saying this deal must get done.

But IF such a Duck - Hawk deal goes down, a third team will have to be massively overpaid to facilitate it.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-20-2012, 08:23 AM
  #68
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,119
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
The deal is complete theft. And unsurprisingly, it's got your team doing the thievery.
You take a stab at it.
Ducks and Hawks; Rangers facilitate to broker.
Rangers are not giving up their top 3 Cs to help these teams without massive overpay.

Assume Hawks want Getzlaf badly enough, and will do prospects.

I invite your counterpart, but you are going to wind up with something similar, i.e., you remove Perry to Rangers, and add alternate acceptable compensation.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-20-2012, 09:01 AM
  #69
DisgruntledHawkFan
Moderator
 
DisgruntledHawkFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 19,898
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DisgruntledHawkFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
You take a stab at it.
Ducks and Hawks; Rangers facilitate to broker.
Rangers are not giving up their top 3 Cs to help these teams without massive overpay.

Assume Hawks want Getzlaf badly enough, and will do prospects.

I invite your counterpart, but you are going to wind up with something similar, i.e., you remove Perry to Rangers, and add alternate acceptable compensation.
Then why the hell include them?

DisgruntledHawkFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-20-2012, 09:44 AM
  #70
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
Really, it isn't. It doesn't take into consideration any of Anaheim's needs. With this trade, Saku Koivu becomes the Ducks' top center. How exactly is that a good deal for Anaheim? Not saying the Chicago pieces are not good, because they are, but that trade would make the Ducks a worse team.
Better than watching Getz leave for nothing. Ducks are gonna be lousy anyways.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-20-2012, 11:11 AM
  #71
Crymson
Registered User
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
You take a stab at it.
Ducks and Hawks; Rangers facilitate to broker.
Rangers are not giving up their top 3 Cs to help these teams without massive overpay.
Where did anyone ask for the Rangers to give up their top three centers? You were the one who brought up this idea. It's not as if the Ducks or the Hawks would ever come knocking with that specific demand and be willing to blatantly overpay as a result. The Ducks, especially, would get obliterated in your proposed trade. They'd get Richards and Stepan in exchange for Perry and Getzlaf. Dreadful.

Crymson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-20-2012, 11:24 AM
  #72
ShadowDuck
Captain Anaheim
 
ShadowDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,430
vCash: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Better than watching Getz leave for nothing. Ducks are gonna be lousy anyways.
Lockout smack talk

Tough guy

ShadowDuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-20-2012, 11:37 AM
  #73
Vipers31
Moderator
Advanced Stagnostic
 
Vipers31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bergisch Gladbach
Country: Germany
Posts: 9,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
Get back to me when Getzlaf is as good at playing center as Toews
He gave you a factual indication for him actually being that. You'll only have his hardly quantifiable defensive strength and intangibles to counter that. That doesn't seem like a well thought-out argument.

Vipers31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-20-2012, 11:40 AM
  #74
Vipers31
Moderator
Advanced Stagnostic
 
Vipers31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bergisch Gladbach
Country: Germany
Posts: 9,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Better than watching Getz leave for nothing.
Yes, I'm sure we'll have exactly those two options, and those two options. Noone else would even want to make an offer.

Vipers31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-20-2012, 11:57 AM
  #75
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Yes, I'm sure we'll have exactly those two options, and those two options. Noone else would even want to make an offer.
Probably a bunch of packages that look similar to the OP's.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.