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Moving another team to the GTA

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Old
09-20-2012, 12:57 AM
  #1
RoyalFlesh
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Moving another team to the GTA

Hey guys, long time no speak. So i'm in a course known as Sports & Entertainment Marketing. My final project for this course is to bring a team to the GTA.

So if anyone can help

Where would you place this team?
What franchise are you moving?
What would you rename this team too?
Where would you place the arena?

If anyone wants to have fun play around with this link and design stuff if you can help?
http://www.athleticknit.com/products.asp?cat=144

Sincerely, a lockout protestor

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09-20-2012, 01:09 AM
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Tak7
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Where would you place this team?
Anywhere. It doesn't matter. There are people all over the GTA. As long as it has local cooperate sponsorship and ease of access to fans, location doesn't matter.
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What franchise are you moving?
Pick one of the struggling teams in the league. Lockout talks reveal that there are many teams that are struggling to break even. Pick one and move.

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What would you rename this team too?
The HFboard Know-It-Alls

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Where would you place the arena?
Somewhere in the Middle East

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09-20-2012, 01:16 AM
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- Kitchener, off the 401, still near a bunch of GTA cities and within easy driving distance to London as well.
- Coyotes, has been nothing but a disaster.
- Name them the Kitchener Phoenix's to keep the former team involved a little
- Don't know where exactly I would put the arena, I just think Kitchener could succeed. Maybe wouldn't succeed the best possible, but it would do better than other places haha. Also it's a better distance for me to see games

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09-20-2012, 12:23 PM
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RoyalFlesh
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Anyone have anymore ideas? I need help!!!!!!!!!

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09-20-2012, 12:28 PM
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There must be about 50 "Second Team in Toronto Threads" to search for peoples' wild ass guesses.

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09-20-2012, 12:47 PM
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Diamond Joe Quimby
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Geez. A whole lot of help you're getting here kid. I got you.

Place the team in Markham, Ontario. Just over 300k people, and one of the fast growing municipalities in the Country. Technically a member of the regional municipality of York, and the fourth largest community in the GTA. Just changed from a town to a city a couple months ago. There's also a number of large companies that have their Canadian headquarters based in Markham (Honda, American Express, Johnson & Johnson, Apple, Motorola, Honeywell, Toshiba, etc.) which means great opportunities for sponsorship, business partnerships and most importantly, press box\season ticket appeal. Also, the median household income in Markham is just under 80k, which means there are individuals in the immediate community with disposable income.

The obvious answer on which franchise to transplant would be Phoenix. However, you could argue Florida, Dallas, etc. You could justify a number of teams that would be viable to move in your paper\project. My recommendation is to look up the revenue and valuation numbers for the franchises online, and reference those for whichever organization you pick.

If you do choose Markham, the natural choice for a name would be the "Waxers" paying homage to the long running Junior team. The city also intersects the Don River and the Rouge River, so maybe something like "Rivermen"? Not sure. My strong suit is the business side. As for the arena, it can be placed in 'downtown' Markham. I know there's been talk about building an NHL arena in real life, so if you look that up, I'm sure the potential location is available. Good luck!

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09-20-2012, 01:38 PM
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Another team in downtown Toronto is the safest option imo. You know it'll have the support and ease of access. I have no idea how it'll work out in Markham with the arena. Of course if the team is a good team then there will be a sold out crowd but if it's a bad team then who knows so it has to be accessible.

The Hershey Centre was built in some remote part of Mississauga surrounded by warehouses and office buildings. No one normally goes there, there's one bus which goes by the arena (and ironically not duing games at night lol). That team probably would have been more successful if it had 1. marketed itself and 2. been located near the Mississauga downtown within walking distance from Square One and the main bus terminal there.

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09-20-2012, 02:13 PM
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Another team in downtown Toronto is the safest option imo. You know it'll have the support and ease of access. I have no idea how it'll work out in Markham with the arena. Of course if the team is a good team then there will be a sold out crowd but if it's a bad team then who knows so it has to be accessible.

The Hershey Centre was built in some remote part of Mississauga surrounded by warehouses and office buildings. No one normally goes there, there's one bus which goes by the arena (and ironically not duing games at night lol). That team probably would have been more successful if it had 1. marketed itself and 2. been located near the Mississauga downtown within walking distance from Square One and the main bus terminal there.
Seriously how awesome would that have been? That place would be pretty full most nights I imagine.

The current Hershey Centre location sucks. I assume it's similar to the setup the NJ Devils have.

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09-20-2012, 04:22 PM
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KuleminFan41
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Am I the only one who thinks it wouldn't be a great idea?There are already so many Leafs fans as it is who would really jump ship? There's also a lot of people who hate Toronto and have their own American hockey teams despite being Canadians so I don't think that would really work either

IDK, to me I don't see it working really

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09-20-2012, 04:43 PM
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Do your own homework

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09-20-2012, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Am I the only one who thinks it wouldn't be a great idea?There are already so many Leafs fans as it is who would really jump ship? There's also a lot of people who hate Toronto and have their own American hockey teams despite being Canadians so I don't think that would really work either

IDK, to me I don't see it working really
Diehard leaf fans won't easily switch teams. Those people would be big hockey fans usually as well and would maybe go see a game or two of the other teams if it is convienant for them, but no, they may not switch.

However, there are also just a bunch of hockey fans. These fans would cheer for the local team and if one is winning more than the other could very easily switch. For example lets say it was the Canucks who came to the GTA (hypothetically). They are the reigning presidents cup winner 2 years in a row. There would be no shortage of fans for this team as one is doing great and the other (leafs) have been doing ****. If the roles are reversed, the new team could do fairly bad BUT, I can't see that team doing any worse than some of the other teams out there. League as a whole would still make more revenue.

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09-20-2012, 05:11 PM
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Rare Jewel
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Am I the only one who thinks it wouldn't be a great idea?There are already so many Leafs fans as it is who would really jump ship? There's also a lot of people who hate Toronto and have their own American hockey teams despite being Canadians so I don't think that would really work either

IDK, to me I don't see it working really
I'm sure some will jump ship, But as they say "the rats are the first to leave the sinking ship"

But I think most of the fans will be people who support other NHL teams like the Bruins, Wings, Sens, Habs etc...


Which would be fine by me if they flush them out so they're at least supporting a Toronto based team.

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09-20-2012, 05:25 PM
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Ohio Jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Am I the only one who thinks it wouldn't be a great idea?There are already so many Leafs fans as it is who would really jump ship? There's also a lot of people who hate Toronto and have their own American hockey teams despite being Canadians so I don't think that would really work either

IDK, to me I don't see it working really
People said the same thing about Ottawa.

A second team in the GTA will do just fine. You'll never approach the breadth of fanbase and support that the Leafs receive, but you'll do just fine in terms of fans and corporate support (the latter is far more crucial). Of course, your new owner will need to address the relocation fees that the NHL imposes - which will be massive in order to enter the southern Ontario market.

And there's the little matter of the rumoured (but not publicly acknowledged) territorial rights that each NHL franchise holds over their region -- MLSE would likely never relinquish their sole control of this market willingly, but for arguments' sake for your project assume that there's a massive payoff to MLSE as well.

Google is your friend - there have been countless articles written in recent years on the idea of relocating teams, struggling NHL franchises, the new Markham arena and so on, going back to Jim Balsillie's first attempt to buy Nashville and bring it here. (Actually, they go much farther back than that, but that's a good starting point for a current project).

Do some actual research that you can quote from and attribute in your notes for the project. (You can't exactly put "I asked some guys in a message board on the internet" in your bibliography.) Also do research on the demographics, businesses, population projections and transportation connectivity for your proposed location over the next 20 years. It's about as far out as most municipal and transportation planning looks, and should be readily available on the local municipality's website. That will give you an idea of your potential market and corporate support over a reasonable timeframe.

As to where exactly to locate it, and what to name it... seriously, with all due respect, you're in a Sports Marketing class. You can't come up with this stuff?

Having said that, I'll offer this small aside: Whatever you do, don't name it after the local municipality - Markham, Mississauga, Kitchener... none of those names mean a damn thing outside of this region. The Coyotes are located in Glendale, but they're called Phoenix for a reason. Even the Islanders are called the New York Islanders, not the Long Island Fishsticks. If the team is in the GTA, call them the Toronto _______. If it's in Hamilton, you could arguably say Hamilton (even though Mississauga is actually bigger). If it's in Kitchener or somewhere else removed from TO, then you'll need to be more creative because there's no readily identifiable city or region to associate with. (Except "Great Lakes", but that would work better if you were actually on the lake, which pretty much means Hamilton in terms of eligible locations).

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09-20-2012, 05:54 PM
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Of course they'll do well. If they're a winning club then automatically almost any new hockey fan or 5 or 6 yr old becomes a fan of that team.

Also Kitchener isn't even in the GTA, would be a horrible choice for an NHL club. Hamilton is closer (or at least can support the team with its own population/economy).

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09-20-2012, 06:03 PM
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The idea of a second GTA team is sort of stupid, the assumption is there's so much demand for the NHL, blah blah blah that a second organization could just sop up the demand from the Leafs like gravy. It could just be that there's demand for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Who actually wants to go watch the B team?

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09-20-2012, 06:27 PM
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I'd go to some B team games. I wouldn't change allegiances, but it's still an NHL quality game of hockey and fun to see live. I think getting season ticket holders beyond corporate seats is the biggest question mark and that will depend on the on-ice product.

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09-20-2012, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Am I the only one who thinks it wouldn't be a great idea?There are already so many Leafs fans as it is who would really jump ship? There's also a lot of people who hate Toronto and have their own American hockey teams despite being Canadians so I don't think that would really work either

IDK, to me I don't see it working really
This IS the answer.

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09-20-2012, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Am I the only one who thinks it wouldn't be a great idea?There are already so many Leafs fans as it is who would really jump ship? There's also a lot of people who hate Toronto and have their own American hockey teams despite being Canadians so I don't think that would really work either

IDK, to me I don't see it working really
if you have the chance to go watch the best players in the world play why would you pass that up? no matter whose playing if I could get tickets(afford to buy them) I would go every game I could. just because you went to watch a game or 2 wouldn't mean you "Jumped Ship".

and btw I would argue even if you took away the leaf fans in Toronto the Hockey fans here would still out number the hockey fans in cities like Florida, Phoenix, Dallas.

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09-20-2012, 07:13 PM
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I'd go to some B team games. I wouldn't change allegiances, but it's still an NHL quality game of hockey and fun to see live. I think getting season ticket holders beyond corporate seats is the biggest question mark and that will depend on the on-ice product.
Not really sure, to be honest.

The ACC at Union Station is a stroke of genius. It literally stands at the foot of Bay Street and all that money from the downtown comes flowing downhill into the coffers of the ACC in terms of corporate dollars and sponsorships. It sits on a major transit hub and is spinning off an entire new development neighbourhood at Maple Leaf Square, re-defining sports, entertainment, event spaces, retail, lifestyle in the heart of Toronto.

This is the perfect storm of moneymaking, quite frankly. I'm not sure if that recipe can be imitated with an area in Markham or wherever you're going to put it simply because Torontonians like to watch the NHL (or is it Leafs, I can't even decide). But as a downtowner, I'm not sure I'm going to make the trek up to wherever to pay a premium watch a team I don't care about. And I assume I'd be paying a premium because this won't be a budget team, but another franchise trying to capitalize on the Toronto market.

The Leafs currently suck, but I feel like we're adequately represented in this city.

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09-20-2012, 07:15 PM
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Anyone have anymore ideas? I need help!!!!!!!!!
They need a team t the ACC.

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09-20-2012, 07:17 PM
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if you have the chance to go watch the best players in the world play why would you pass that up? no matter whose playing if I could get tickets(afford to buy them) I would go every game I could. just because you went to watch a game or 2 wouldn't mean you "Jumped Ship".

and btw I would argue even if you took away the leaf fans in Toronto the Hockey fans here would still out number the hockey fans in cities like Florida, Phoenix, Dallas.
As a young guy with a limited budget, I don't have an exorbitant amount of money I can spend on live sports all year, so when I do fork over some money to go watch the Leafs in the nosebleeds once or twice a year, that's already a special treat. I don't have the resources, attention span or interest in going up to god knows where GTA to watch the Toronto Coyotes, to be honest.

As far as corporate sponsorships and affiliations, you have to wonder how far away the Bay Street crowd is willing to commute to go watch the new club. I think that's honestly a huge disadvantage.

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09-20-2012, 07:18 PM
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Ohio Jones
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Also might want to read up on some of the debates about where to build the replacement for Ivor Wynne Stadium over the last few years. An interesting case-study in the competing demands that influence sports venue location.

Of course, it depends how much of your mark this project is worth: if they just want you to come up with a slick logo and tag line, then you don't need to do any of this stuff, right?


EDIT: Speaking of which, keep in mind folks the assignment appears to take the relocation of a team to TO as writ, so the kid doesn't need to make the business case for doing it, just needs to explain where he think it would work best.

Unrelated thought: If the Winnipeg Jets hadn't appropriated the idea of a fighter plane, I'd have suggested the Toronto Arrows.


Last edited by Ohio Jones: 09-20-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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09-20-2012, 07:34 PM
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got company will do this later.

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09-20-2012, 10:02 PM
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Hey guys, long time no speak. So i'm in a course known as Sports & Entertainment Marketing. My final project for this course is to bring a team to the GTA.

So if anyone can help

Where would you place this team?
Different from most GTA 2nd team advocates. Vaughan is the short answer. Somewhere close to HWY 400 and HWY 407. Land is cheaper. The location draws from not only the Markham Local, Which anyone who knows Markham knows it is a complete pain in the arse to navigate and I mention only due to their recent arena ambitions, but the Vaughan location also has easy access from West of the city like London, Kitchener(401 to 400) and North of the City like Barrie which has almost 200K 30min down the highway.

Quote:
What franchise are you moving?
PHX seems to be the rallying point for NHL expansion. Bettman has hung his hat on keeping the Yotes where they are. CAR and TBL both have Stanley Cups and it doesn't look good when you move a championship franchise. CBL is too close to move. They are far enough North to be in a "traditional market", and if they could put a decent product on the ice they would be fine.
My pick to move is the FLA Panthers. THey have been given the longest time to establish themselves in a "non traditional market" without doing so.

Quote:
What would you rename this team too?
The Toronto Northern Express.
There is a great young team called the York Simcoe Express that comes from an area where the teeam is likely to generate most of it's fans. The name also pay homage to railroads that opened up the North of Ontario where so many great NHL'ers have come from from.

Quote:
Where would you place the arena?
Mentioned above. Somewhere around the 400 and 407 intersection.

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09-20-2012, 10:21 PM
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Go retro.....Toronto Toros

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