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Value of players who may become UFA next summer ? (stop making proposal about them)

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Old
09-20-2012, 05:09 PM
  #1
palindrom
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Value of players who may become UFA next summer ? (stop making proposal about them)

I think we should stop until we have a new CBA to make proposal including player who may become UFA next summer.

Because their value is too much variable depending of the new CBA.

At worst, we have a year long lockout, they become UFA summer 2013 and they have zero trade value! (or if they resign with their team we cant expect a trade!).

At best we have a new CBA next week and the UFA age is back to 29-30yo and they now worth a lot.

And since any trade is impossible until a new CBA is in place, what is the point to make proposal about player whose value could be somewhere between 0 and a king ransom ?

A quick list of the most important players in this situation: (tell me if i did some mistake)

Getzlaf
Perry
Selanne
Koivu
Thomas
Iginla
Semin
Jagr
Morrow
Roy
Ryder
Filppula
White
Ryan Whitney
Weiss
Penner
Simon Gagner
Niklas Backstrom (min)
Ellias
Zajac
Zidlicky
Visnovsky
Streit
Alfredsson
Gonchar
Timonen
Clowe
McDonald
Connolly
Lupul
Edler
Ribiero
Antropov
Hainsley

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Old
09-20-2012, 06:17 PM
  #2
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Why do you even care what trades other posters propose? It's all just innocent fun. Besides, proposing trades involving potential UFA's might not necessarily be realistic, but it often produces good discussion, which is what this board is really about.

Live and let live.

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Old
09-20-2012, 07:09 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I think we should stop until we have a new CBA to make proposal including player who may become UFA next summer.

Because their value is too much variable depending of the new CBA.

At worst, we have a year long lockout, they become UFA summer 2013 and they have zero trade value! (or if they resign with their team we cant expect a trade!).

At best we have a new CBA next week and the UFA age is back to 29-30yo and they now worth a lot.

And since any trade is impossible until a new CBA is in place, what is the point to make proposal about player whose value could be somewhere between 0 and a king ransom ?
Quite frankly, this can be said about any player, at this point in time.

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Old
09-20-2012, 08:28 PM
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palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
Quite frankly, this can be said about any player, at this point in time.
I dont think so, the value of players signed long term is not so much dependent of the duration of the lockout & thenew CBA than upcoming UFA.

How much difference it will make in the value of a player like Carter or Richard if the lockout last 1 week or 1 years ? Or if the UFA age is set to 26 or 27 or 28 or 29 or 30yo? Not much!

For a player like Getzlaf, Edler or Zajac it change everything, from 0 value to something great.

How much a team should trade for an UFA Getzlaf vs a Getzlaf who will play them for the remaining of the season and would become UFA at 30yo ? Well, in proposal thread, people doesn't seem to realize how much the new CBA will make a difference making these thread pointless.


Last edited by palindrom: 09-20-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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Old
09-20-2012, 09:23 PM
  #5
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Pretty sure this will just tempt some trolls.. and you can't take 20-30 people out of a years worth of threads

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09-20-2012, 09:31 PM
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This is the trade section isn't it.

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Old
09-20-2012, 09:50 PM
  #7
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
This is the trade section isn't it.
This isn't

This is the Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk section.

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Old
09-21-2012, 07:08 AM
  #8
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Are people really proposing that many Roy, Ribeiro or Semin trades? Did they not just find new teams?

So there were a couple Getzlaf proposals lately, though the vast majority of proposals recently seems to be CHI trying to absolutely hose someone while getting rid of Hjalmarson and Emery or the same old Edmonton stuff. I don't really see that huge a problem.

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09-21-2012, 08:22 AM
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xX Hot Fuss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
This is the trade section isn't it.
No. This is the "Propose Trades that 85% of the time lack all sense of value, common sense, or team needs". When i first joined i loved this part of HF boards. Now i only check it for news.

I don't fully agree with the OP but installing some any increased level of realism and/or common sense would be fantastic for this section of HF.

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Old
09-21-2012, 03:10 PM
  #10
Jamin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
No. This is the "Propose Trades that 85% of the time lack all sense of value, common sense, or team needs". When i first joined i loved this part of HF boards. Now i only check it for news.

I don't fully agree with the OP but installing some any increased level of realism and/or common sense would be fantastic for this section of HF.
How do you decide whats common sense though? Ive seen you post in threads and thought I want what this guy is smoking and im sure others have thought the same of me.

Kind of hard to police common sense or realism on the internet. Maybe if we all had to have our pictures and real names

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09-21-2012, 04:02 PM
  #11
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Holy moly, thank you for pointing out that there's some uncertainty about what's going to be in the next CBA and when it will be signed!

I could have wasted considerable time if I had proceeded along, blithely unaware of this fact!

Now I can refocus on actually productive things - like hypothetical trades I have no control over that involve players whose contracts don't expire 6/30/13. That definitely isn't a waste of time!

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09-21-2012, 04:14 PM
  #12
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
How do you decide whats common sense though? Ive seen you post in threads and thought I want what this guy is smoking and im sure others have thought the same of me.

Kind of hard to police common sense or realism on the internet. Maybe if we all had to have our pictures and real names
IMO its common sense that it will just become an issue if we make proposal about players who have a non negligible chance to become UFA without any possibility that their team can trade them before they reach UFA status.

For Example... "Edler to the Flyers."

Flyers fans: Why should we acquire a player who could become UFA without playing a single game with us because of the lockout?

Vancouver fans: We dont know that, the CBA could be signed next week and Edler could become UFA only at 30yo according to the owner offer, so we want a king ransom!

And since no trade is possible anyway, these trade talk for these players should be put on hold.

dont you think so?

For other players signed long term, draft pick, prospect, the CBA could also affect their value, but its not so drastic.

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Old
09-21-2012, 04:16 PM
  #13
dave babych returns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
And since no trade is possible anyway, these trade talk for these players should be put on hold.

dont you think so?
Hey since there's no CBA right now and thus no transactions can be completed, should we just shut this entire board down?

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09-21-2012, 04:18 PM
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no..

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Old
09-21-2012, 04:26 PM
  #15
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
Hey since there's no CBA right now and thus no transactions can be completed, should we just shut this entire board down?
I already explained it, did you miss my explanation ?

Quote:
For other players signed long term, draft pick, prospect, the CBA could also affect their value, but its not so drastic.

Quote:
How much difference it will make in the value of a player like Carter or Richard if the lockout last 1 week or 1 years ? Or if the UFA age is set to 26 or 27 or 28 or 29 or 30yo? Not much!

For a player like Getzlaf, Edler or Zajac it change everything, from 0 value to something great.

The main issue is not that a lockout forbid trade, the main issue is the duration of the lockout + a new CBA could drastically affect the value of the mentioned players.
I am sure GMs still have trade talk despite the lockout, but i am also fairly sure their trade talks are principally on hold when it come to these players, waiting for a new CBA to be able to judge their value adequately. They cant even make a gamble on their value and trade for them.


Suggestion: At least we should mention in proposal how long do we expect the lockout to last and at what age the UFA eligibility will be set so we can base player value on something. The same way we often trade upcoming UFA basing these value as if "they will extend with their new team."

Just ask yourself: Edler to the flyers

Years long lockout + UFA age set at 27yo or less = No value as he will be an UFA once the lockout resolve and Vancouver wont have any right on him.
Lockout resolved next week + UFA age at 27yo = Good value
Years long lockout + UFA age at 28yo = Good Value
Lockout resolved next week + UFA age at 30yo = Great Value


Last edited by palindrom: 09-22-2012 at 09:13 AM.
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Old
09-22-2012, 12:31 AM
  #16
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people are only going to assume the outcome of the CBA which suits their case.
For example (and because it was brought up in the thread) edler to Philly
Flyers fans say that edler has no value because there will be no season and he will become a FA and canucks fans will only say CBA outcomes that extend edler's ufa to get more value.

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Old
09-22-2012, 09:20 AM
  #17
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
people are only going to assume the outcome of the CBA which suits their case.
For example (and because it was brought up in the thread) edler to Philly
Flyers fans say that edler has no value because there will be no season and he will become a FA and canucks fans will only say CBA outcomes that extend edler's ufa to get more value.
Well, i already seen similar thread and i feel these discussions are going nowhere until the roadblock of a new CBA is resolved.
People dont seem to realize that the value of a player is not only about his current skill. Its also about the market for similar player, his age & development, his contract, the current CBA and intangible. Talking about the value of players when its currently just impossible to gauge their value is a gamble, but it would be a lot more interesting if GMs was actually allowed to make these gamble.


Last edited by palindrom: 09-22-2012 at 09:29 AM.
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