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Old
09-21-2012, 08:24 PM
  #1
Kulemon
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Tor - ana

To the Leafs:

John Gibson G


To the Ducks:

Cody Franson D
Joe Colborne C



Why? The leafs need a goaltender. John Gibson is a good goaltending prospect and certainly has starting potential. The Ducks would love a good second line center, Big Joe could fill that need as early as next season. Cody Franson would be a good bottom pairing guy on Anaheim and add to that good D core.

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09-21-2012, 08:28 PM
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Leafs say no because we don't need any more prospect Goalies. If they trade for one he has to be a proven #1 starter. Plus I don't want them to give up on Franson and Colborne.

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09-21-2012, 08:35 PM
  #3
Kulemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Leafs say no because we don't need any more prospect Goalies. If they trade for one he has to be a proven #1 starter. Plus I don't want them to give up on Franson and Colborne.
We're looking down the line here. Gibson is a potential big time starter and could have a long career in the NHL. I'd rather have a long term solution than a stop gap like Luongo. Even then, you could get a vet like Lou after making this trade and by the time Lou is gone Gibson can step in.

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Old
09-21-2012, 08:40 PM
  #4
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
We're looking down the line here. Gibson is a potential big time starter and could have a long career in the NHL. I'd rather have a long term solution than a stop gap like Luongo. Even then, you could get a vet like Lou after making this trade and by the time Lou is gone Gibson can step in.
Let's say they make this trade what does it do for James Reimer? I believe he can still be the Leafs #1 Goalie and I don't think his 2010-2011 season was a fluke, so people shouldn't be in a rush to trade for another prospect.

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09-21-2012, 08:41 PM
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its usually the other way around bud, the leafs screw over the ducks usually.

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09-21-2012, 08:46 PM
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No need to consider trading Gibson at this point. There's nothing in this trade that we need.

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09-21-2012, 08:46 PM
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Kulemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Let's say they make this trade what does it do for James Reimer? I believe he can still be the Leafs #1 Goalie and I don't think his 2010-2011 season was a fluke, so people shouldn't be in a rush to trade for another prospect.
What's the harm? You're not trading away Reimer or giving up huge assets. Sure Franson is a solid d man with decent potential and Colborne is a good prospect, but Gibson is a very very good goaltender prospect.

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09-21-2012, 08:47 PM
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Value is there, but i don't think either team does it.

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Old
09-21-2012, 08:48 PM
  #9
Kulemon
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
No need to consider trading Gibson at this point. There's nothing in this trade that we need.
Don't you guys need a second line center? Like I said, Colborne is a good prospect and could be that big offensive playmaking second line C for you guys. Franson would make your D core slightly better aswell and improve your PP.

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Old
09-21-2012, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
What's the harm? You're not trading away Reimer or giving up huge assets. Sure Franson is a solid d man with decent potential and Colborne is a good prospect, but Gibson is a very very good goaltender prospect.
It doesn't make sense... the Leafs have Reimer and Scrivens (who just dominated the AHL). Why would they use assets to get another prospect when their real need is a goaltender now?

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09-21-2012, 08:51 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Don't you guys need a second line center? Like I said, Colborne is a good prospect and could be that big offensive playmaking second line C for you guys. Franson would make your D core slightly better aswell and improve your PP.
Colborne is just a prospect at this point. He MIGHT be a second line center in the near future. We have that already with Holland and Bonino.

As far as defensemen go, we're full up with no need for Franson.

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09-21-2012, 08:55 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
What's the harm? You're not trading away Reimer or giving up huge assets. Sure Franson is a solid d man with decent potential and Colborne is a good prospect, but Gibson is a very very good goaltender prospect.
The harm? Potentially trading away the big, young top six centre the Leafs need.

Colborne played with a major hand and wrist injury for about 75% of last season, which explains his extreme drop in production starting around mid November. The Leafs would be crazy to trade him before giving him a real shot to be a full time NHLer.

Plus the Leafs have Reimer, Scrivens, Owuya, Rynnas and Sparks. No need to bring in more young goaltenders, especially for the cost you are proposing.

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Old
09-21-2012, 08:59 PM
  #13
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I think the Leafs would be better off going in with Reimer and Scrivens, unless they trade for a much more proven starter.

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09-21-2012, 08:59 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
The harm? Potentially trading away the big, young top six centre the Leafs need.

Colborne played with a major hand and wrist injury for about 75% of last season, which explains his extreme drop in production starting around mid November. The Leafs would be crazy to trade him before giving him a real shot to be a full time NHLer.

Plus the Leafs have Reimer, Scrivens, Owuya, Rynnas and Sparks. No need to bring in more young goaltenders, especially for the cost you are proposing.
Agreed 100% with everything you said.

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Old
09-21-2012, 09:21 PM
  #15
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
To the Leafs:

John Gibson G


To the Ducks:

Cody Franson D
Joe Colborne C



Why? The leafs need a goaltender. John Gibson is a good goaltending prospect and certainly has starting potential. The Ducks would love a good second line center, Big Joe could fill that need as early as next season. Cody Franson would be a good bottom pairing guy on Anaheim and add to that good D core.
The whole "Goaltenders have no value" argument does get overplayed on these boards, but this is a case where that argument does hold true, at least in relation to the other side of this proposal.

With all due respect to John Gibson, he's nothing special as far as prospect goaltenders go. A high 2nd round pick, who made a smooth transition to the OHL means an incredibly small amount relative to his future NHL upside. Yeah, he's got starting potential, but so do James Reimer, Ben Scrivens, Mark Owuya, Jussi Rynnas, and probably about 40-50 other goaltenders that are property of NHL teams. Goaltenders, at this stage, are simply too hard to predict.

On the flip side, Colborne has a ton of upside if he can figure out how to use his size, and is pretty close to the NHL. Much less uncertainty than an OHL goaltender. Franson is a proven NHL defenceman with plenty of upside on his own, with the downside of still being a high quality bottom pairing puckmoving dman. He's also one of Toronto's 6 best at the present time, so wouldn't be moving unless another defenceman is coming in.

edit: If the Leafs are going to acquire a goaltender, it's not going to be another project. It'll be a proven, stop-gap insurance policy against James Reimer (think Niklas Backstrom, Thomas Vokoun, Jose Theodore, Nikolai Khabibulin, etc.), or a proven #1 who surpasses Reimer on the long term depth chart (Luongo).


Last edited by seanlinden: 09-21-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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Old
09-21-2012, 09:26 PM
  #16
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If the Leafs are trading two pieces like this for a goaltender, it's not for another unproven asset. We've got a few goalies with good potential in the pipelines already.

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Old
09-21-2012, 09:27 PM
  #17
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Something else people forget is that Franson was never given a fair chance with Ron Wilson when he was the Leafs Head Coach and I always thought he should have been in the lineup ahead of Mike Komisarek. So assuming he can work out a new deal with Toronto once the lockout is over because he's an RFA, hopefully things can be different with Randy Carlyle as the Leafs Head Coach.

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Old
09-22-2012, 01:24 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
To the Leafs:

John Gibson G


To the Ducks:

Cody Franson D
Joe Colborne C



Why? The leafs need a goaltender. John Gibson is a good goaltending prospect and certainly has starting potential. The Ducks would love a good second line center, Big Joe could fill that need as early as next season. Cody Franson would be a good bottom pairing guy on Anaheim and add to that good D core.
if we target a ducks goalie it's hiller we need a #1 not a prospect

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Old
09-22-2012, 01:57 AM
  #19
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
The whole "Goaltenders have no value" argument does get overplayed on these boards, but this is a case where that argument does hold true, at least in relation to the other side of this proposal.

With all due respect to John Gibson, he's nothing special as far as prospect goaltenders go. A high 2nd round pick, who made a smooth transition to the OHL means an incredibly small amount relative to his future NHL upside. Yeah, he's got starting potential, but so do James Reimer, Ben Scrivens, Mark Owuya, Jussi Rynnas, and probably about 40-50 other goaltenders that are property of NHL teams. Goaltenders, at this stage, are simply too hard to predict.

On the flip side, Colborne has a ton of upside if he can figure out how to use his size, and is pretty close to the NHL. Much less uncertainty than an OHL goaltender. Franson is a proven NHL defenceman with plenty of upside on his own, with the downside of still being a high quality bottom pairing puckmoving dman. He's also one of Toronto's 6 best at the present time, so wouldn't be moving unless another defenceman is coming in.

edit: If the Leafs are going to acquire a goaltender, it's not going to be another project. It'll be a proven, stop-gap insurance policy against James Reimer (think Niklas Backstrom, Thomas Vokoun, Jose Theodore, Nikolai Khabibulin, etc.), or a proven #1 who surpasses Reimer on the long term depth chart (Luongo).
backstrom could be a long term #1 he has3 or 4 years left atleast just a matter of him signing an extension

which he might do seeing he'd be on a team that for all their flaws can score goals for him. The same could not be said of the wild.

side note typing on ps3 is a pain in the ass.

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Old
09-22-2012, 06:45 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
The whole "Goaltenders have no value" argument does get overplayed on these boards, but this is a case where that argument does hold true, at least in relation to the other side of this proposal.

With all due respect to John Gibson, he's nothing special as far as prospect goaltenders go. A high 2nd round pick, who made a smooth transition to the OHL means an incredibly small amount relative to his future NHL upside. Yeah, he's got starting potential, but so do James Reimer, Ben Scrivens, Mark Owuya, Jussi Rynnas, and probably about 40-50 other goaltenders that are property of NHL teams. Goaltenders, at this stage, are simply too hard to predict.

On the flip side, Colborne has a ton of upside if he can figure out how to use his size, and is pretty close to the NHL. Much less uncertainty than an OHL goaltender. Franson is a proven NHL defenceman with plenty of upside on his own, with the downside of still being a high quality bottom pairing puckmoving dman. He's also one of Toronto's 6 best at the present time, so wouldn't be moving unless another defenceman is coming in.

edit: If the Leafs are going to acquire a goaltender, it's not going to be another project. It'll be a proven, stop-gap insurance policy against James Reimer (think Niklas Backstrom, Thomas Vokoun, Jose Theodore, Nikolai Khabibulin, etc.), or a proven #1 who surpasses Reimer on the long term depth chart (Luongo).

With all do respect to your post I read. Your prospect is average and nothing special because he's not a Leaf. However, our prospect who's has yet to crack a full time lineup has tremendous upside because he's a large human being that happens to be a Leaf prospect.

But what really takes the cake for me is Franson, a high quality bottom pairing defenseman is one of Toronto's 6 best defenseman! Is this how you pump up your players? He's one of our worst defenseman but but but he's one of our top 6. Lolololol

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Old
09-22-2012, 06:59 AM
  #21
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If we had another center in the prospect system i'd do this without a moment's hesitation. However we are only with Kadri and Colborne at time and we don't know if we can barter our defensive pieces just yet as our prospect develop. In another time yea I would do this fairly fast as the value is there, as gibson is a very good prospect in my eyes.

However we aren't in a spot that needs unproven goalies as much as proven ones.

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Old
09-22-2012, 09:08 AM
  #22
seanlinden
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backstrom could be a long term #1 he has3 or 4 years left atleast just a matter of him signing an extension

which he might do seeing he'd be on a team that for all their flaws can score goals for him. The same could not be said of the wild.

side note typing on ps3 is a pain in the ass.
Yeah, but his contract doesn't dictate that he has to be.

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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
With all do respect to your post I read. Your prospect is average and nothing special because he's not a Leaf. However, our prospect who's has yet to crack a full time lineup has tremendous upside because he's a large human being that happens to be a Leaf prospect.

But what really takes the cake for me is Franson, a high quality bottom pairing defenseman is one of Toronto's 6 best defenseman! Is this how you pump up your players? He's one of our worst defenseman but but but he's one of our top 6. Lolololol
When did I say the Leafs goaltending prospects were special?? Gibson is really no different than Scrivens/Owuya/Rynnas. In fact, he's probably a notch below Scrivens, simply because Scrivens has actually shown some ability at the NHL level. Do you see any Leafs fans pimping out these guys as having the ability to get NHL players and other team's top prospects, in the same deal!?

Franson is a high quality bottom pairing defenceman at this point in his career, and not worth trading for a project goaltender. He's also one of our 6 best, which means we're not trading him for a prospect, period.

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Old
09-22-2012, 09:20 AM
  #23
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I'd rather go with Reimer, Scrivens, Owuya and Sparks.

Trade Cody Franson and keep Joe Colborne. Hopefully his wrist has healed.

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09-22-2012, 09:21 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
With all do respect to your post I read. Your prospect is average and nothing special because he's not a Leaf. However, our prospect who's has yet to crack a full time lineup has tremendous upside because he's a large human being that happens to be a Leaf prospect.

But what really takes the cake for me is Franson, a high quality bottom pairing defenseman is one of Toronto's 6 best defenseman! Is this how you pump up your players? He's one of our worst defenseman but but but he's one of our top 6. Lolololol
Franson is incredibly underrated while Gunnarsson is incredibly overrated.

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Old
09-22-2012, 09:25 AM
  #25
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Do you value Gibson more or less than Brobovsky and lindback ?

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