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Luongo: "Whatever the future holds is going to be fine with me"

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Old
09-21-2012, 07:42 PM
  #576
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1262863

May not mean much, but here it is...
Of course.. and hfboard poll of a Toronto player is going to yield an accurate result... You've been a member of these boards for close to 6 months... one would think you've learned that by now.

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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Yes that is true. And that's the 5 million dollar question. How much is Burke willing to part with to solidify the goaltending position. If he makes a move I think that he believes Leafs are ready to contend now, if not he probably does not trust is core just yet.
The move for Luongo will not be one based on him trusting his core to be immediate contenders. It will be made based on a price which allows him to stop perpetuating a culture of losing, without sacrificing too much of the future.


Last edited by seanlinden: 09-21-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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09-21-2012, 07:49 PM
  #577
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Friedman said Schenn was available because he heard about it through Lebrun/Dreger like everyone else did, he speculated that Schenn was offered along with our 5th overall for 1st overall (in which he had to correct himself because he was wrong) and that's about it.
This is what you got from the links posted in this very thread? Elliotte Friedman definitely referenced Schenn for Luongo. Jason Brough of ProHockeyTalk (NBC) specifically pointed out Schenn + 1st for Lu.


These rumours exist. Their accuracy can be debated as they are in fact rumours, but their existence cannot be.



Oh and hint: Liferleafer was being sarcastic.

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09-21-2012, 07:54 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Of course.. and hfboard poll of a Toronto player is going to yield an accurate result... You've been a member of these boards for close to 6 months... one would think you've learned that by now.
You're right. It's like asking HFboard members to quantify the value of a Vancouver goalie... It will never be accurate and usually turns into discussing all the negatives which effects value while ignoring all the positives. After 10 yrs on these boards I've learned that.

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09-21-2012, 07:56 PM
  #579
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You're right. It's like asking HFboard members to quantify the value of a Vancouver goalie... It will never be accurate and usually turns into discussing all the negatives which effects value while ignoring all the positives. After 10 yrs on these boards I've learned that.




thank you for pointing out this very obvious hypocrisy.

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09-21-2012, 08:00 PM
  #580
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You're right. It's like asking HFboard members to quantify the value of a Vancouver goalie... It will never be accurate and usually turns into discussing all the negatives which effects value while ignoring all the positives. After 10 yrs on these boards I've learned that.
Not really. Nobody really cares about Vancouver, nor has any reason to dislike / have an inferiority complex towards their fans.

Luongo's a goaltender with a great resume, who's arguably top 5 in the league right now, and there's a reason that several teams would be willing to part with top prospects to acquire him despite his substantial contract where the best years have been burned off.

Where the Leafs stop short though, is making a deal that mortgages their future. Where the Blackhawks stop short, is making a deal that doesn't actually improve their team. Where the Panthers stop short, is making a deal that either mortgages their future, or fails to make them a better team. In the latter case, Jose Theodore's recent performance makes coming up with a deal that doesn't mortage their future, and does make them a better team, quite difficult.

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09-21-2012, 08:03 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Not really. Nobody really cares about Vancouver, nor has any reason to dislike / have an inferiority complex towards their fans.

Luongo's a goaltender with a great resume, and there's a reason that several teams would be willing to part with top prospects to acquire him despite his substantial contract where the best years have been burned off.

Where the Leafs stop short though, is making a deal that mortgages their future. Where the Blackhawks stop short, is making a deal that doesn't actually improve their team. Where the Panthers stop short, is making a deal that either mortgages their future, or fails to make them a better team. In the latter case, Jose Theodore's recent performance makes doing either quite easy.
You're oblivious. Did you happen to watch the Cup finals against the Bruins? Never seen a team so vilified in my life. The hate for the Canucks on this site is rampant and just about as strong as the hate for the Leafs.

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09-21-2012, 08:06 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Not really. Nobody really cares about Vancouver, nor has any reason to dislike / have an inferiority complex towards their fans.


Yeah, no.

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09-21-2012, 08:07 PM
  #583
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Probably the most off-base comment i've read on these boards..and that's saying something

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09-21-2012, 08:23 PM
  #584
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Not really. Nobody really cares about Vancouver, nor has any reason to dislike / have an inferiority complex towards their fans.

Luongo's a goaltender with a great resume, who's arguably top 5 in the league right now, and there's a reason that several teams would be willing to part with top prospects to acquire him despite his substantial contract where the best years have been burned off.

Where the Leafs stop short though, is making a deal that mortgages their future. Where the Blackhawks stop short, is making a deal that doesn't actually improve their team. Where the Panthers stop short, is making a deal that either mortgages their future, or fails to make them a better team. In the latter case, Jose Theodore's recent performance makes coming up with a deal that doesn't mortage their future, and does make them a better team, quite difficult.
And this is the thing that is confusing about what you say, because 1 A prospect and a 1st or 2 B prospects + 1st does not mortgage a teams future, but the way leaf fans talk is like it is the end of the world. Good goalies do not come available very often.

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09-21-2012, 08:29 PM
  #585
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You're oblivious. Did you happen to watch the Cup finals against the Bruins? Never seen a team so vilified in my life. The hate for the Canucks on this site is rampant and just about as strong as the hate for the Leafs.
Honestly I think the Canucks are easily the most hated team on HFB. Toronto would be 2nd.

It is true most think the TML suck. But to be blunt and honest they have not made the playoffs post lockout. They do suck. So it is not out of place to assume most of their players are not good enough....

Vancouver has been one of the better teams in the league over the same stretch. Yet as with the Leafs their players apparently also suck. Yet the team keeps winning....

I actually feel for both fan bases. Neither of us can have a real hockey conversation because there are so many haters on this site.

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09-21-2012, 08:32 PM
  #586
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Honestly I think the Canucks are easily the most hated team on HFB. Toronto would be 2nd.

It is true most think the TML suck. But to be blunt and honest they have not made the playoffs post lockout. They do suck. So it is not out of place to assume most of their players are not good enough....

Vancouver has been one of the better teams in the league over the same stretch. Yet as with the Leafs their players apparently also suck. Yet the team keeps winning....

I actually feel for both fan bases. Neither of us can have a real hockey conversation because there are so many haters on this site.
That's a bit extreme, don't you think?

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09-21-2012, 08:46 PM
  #587
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That's a bit extreme, don't you think?
Well yes and no. I personally cannot remember the last Canuck or Maple Leaf thread that did not deteriorate into a bashfest. This site has some very good posters and they are the reason why I keep coming here. But the majority of HF posters are hardcore homers and do not even try to hide the fact.

When is the last time you saw a Kessel thread that didnt turn into a "you got badly ripped off by Boston" bashing. WTF has Kessel ever done to deserve that? He is an elite winger in the NHL but you would never know it if all you had to go on was the yahoo's that post here. For the record. I take Kessel over Seguin 10 times outta 10. The future may change that but not now.

Having a real hockey conversation is damn near impossible.

A bit extreme? Perhaps.... But only a bit...

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09-21-2012, 09:04 PM
  #588
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And this is the thing that is confusing about what you say, because 1 A prospect and a 1st or 2 B prospects + 1st does not mortgage a teams future, but the way leaf fans talk is like it is the end of the world. Good goalies do not come available very often.
Giving up a prospect isn't what inherently mortgages the future (although giving up an "A" prospect is something the Leafs should be willing to do for Luongo), it's doing that in conjunction with acquiring a goaltender that has the realistic chance of becoming a major headache by the time your team is ready to be a contender.

In any given year, something is going to go wrong in a playoff quest for a cup. In a cap system, you need an influx of young / unproven players with upside to afford to keep your marquee guys around and surrounded by talent, and/or trade for the big piece(s) that you need to put your team over the top, like LA did for Richards/Carter. The only reason Kadri's available is because he's not a prospect that the Leafs can continue to "hold on to". They're not set up to develop him any further in the NHL, and there's nothing more for him to learn outside of the NHL. A first round pick will generally hold it's value for a couple years without playing in the NHL, and since the Leafs are loaded with depth up front / prospects who could challenge for NHL spots, the picks are what they value.

You're absolutely right that good goalies do not become available very often. However, that doesn't mean you drop everything to get one when he does become available. Much like the Canucks have made the decision that they'd rather go with Cory Schneider than Roberto Luongo, the Leafs would face a similar tough decision in choosing between James Reimer and Luongo, if acquired.

There's a quote from much earlier in this thread by a Canuck fan, to paraphrase, "Luongo will be be pretty good be a pretty good bet to be our #1 for the next 5-6 years, but Cory Schneider has the potential to be our #1 for the next 10-12 years". While I think the estimates are high on both players, the same holds true for Toronto.

There's a price at which you say, I can do enough good for my team now, without giving up too many future assets, that it's worth (basically) giving up on Reimer and trading for Luongo, and there's a price where it isn't. That price likely falls somewhere near Kadri, Lombardi, and a conditional 2nd that falls to a 2014 3rd if the Leafs fail to make the playoffs. It caps the futures given up at Kadri + a 2nd, and ensures that we don't sacrifice anyone important on our roster to make it work cap-wise, allowing us to become closer to contenders quicker.


Last edited by seanlinden: 09-21-2012 at 09:12 PM.
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Old
09-21-2012, 09:18 PM
  #589
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@risingaction Two and a half sourced: Oilers made serious pitch for Lu last week. Said to be better than what Leafs have offered. #canucks

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09-21-2012, 09:29 PM
  #590
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@risingaction Two and a half sourced: Oilers made serious pitch for Lu last week. Said to be better than what Leafs have offered. #canucks
Unexpected, to say the least. Taken with a grain of salt, but it's interesting that even with the CBA up in the air there is still a decent amount of interest.

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09-21-2012, 10:04 PM
  #591
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Well yes and no. I personally cannot remember the last Canuck or Maple Leaf thread that did not deteriorate into a bashfest. This site has some very good posters and they are the reason why I keep coming here. But the majority of HF posters are hardcore homers and do not even try to hide the fact.

When is the last time you saw a Kessel thread that didnt turn into a "you got badly ripped off by Boston" bashing. WTF has Kessel ever done to deserve that? He is an elite winger in the NHL but you would never know it if all you had to go on was the yahoo's that post here. For the record. I take Kessel over Seguin 10 times outta 10. The future may change that but not now.

Having a real hockey conversation is damn near impossible.

A bit extreme? Perhaps.... But only a bit...
I am a new fan to this site.. so why the hatred for these two fanbases? I'm clueless as to why this is. I don't want to open up a can of worms but I have looked around and have seen the hatred for sure. I don't understand since I certainly do not hate either with even one pretty close to a rival (and will heat up probably more with the additions this off season) in Vancouver. I don't get why there is the hatred.

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09-21-2012, 10:20 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Unexpected, to say the least. Taken with a grain of salt, but it's interesting that even with the CBA up in the air there is still a decent amount of interest.
Although, I certainly have reservations on that source. I wonder what Edmonton would even offer. The two most enticing pieces possibly in play would be their first or Gagner.

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09-21-2012, 10:20 PM
  #593
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I am a new fan to this site.. so why the hatred for these two fanbases? I'm clueless as to why this is. I don't want to open up a can of worms but I have looked around and have seen the hatred for sure. I don't understand since I certainly do not hate either with even one pretty close to a rival (and will heat up probably more with the additions this off season) in Vancouver. I don't get why there is the hatred.
The Canucks are portrayed as a bunch of classless divers, while the Leafs have Burke as a GM, and their fans start a disproportionate amount of one-sided proposals on HF(although hey also have the biggest fanbase, whic is probably a big part of that)

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09-21-2012, 10:22 PM
  #594
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Although, I certainly have reservations on that source. I wonder what Edmonton would even offer. The two most enticing pieces possibly in play would be their first or Gagner.
I dunno. Gagner, 1st, MPS, Klefbom, Hemsky, are all pieces I could see put together for a deal.

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09-21-2012, 10:24 PM
  #595
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
The Canucks are portrayed as a bunch of classless divers, while the Leafs have Burke as a GM, and their fans start a disproportionate amount of one-sided proposals on HF(although hey also have the biggest fanbase, whic is probably a big part of that)
Adding to this, many perceive Vancouver as arrogant. This is true of the team, fans and even the city itself. The Canucks are also not a fighting team, and thus ridiculed for not "defending ourselves." I'll concede there is some truth to it at times, be it arrogance to diving (Kesler) but HF certainly likes to exaggerate.

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09-21-2012, 10:41 PM
  #596
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Giving up a prospect isn't what inherently mortgages the future (although giving up an "A" prospect is something the Leafs should be willing to do for Luongo), it's doing that in conjunction with acquiring a goaltender that has the realistic chance of becoming a major headache by the time your team is ready to be a contender.

In any given year, something is going to go wrong in a playoff quest for a cup. In a cap system, you need an influx of young / unproven players with upside to afford to keep your marquee guys around and surrounded by talent, and/or trade for the big piece(s) that you need to put your team over the top, like LA did for Richards/Carter. The only reason Kadri's available is because he's not a prospect that the Leafs can continue to "hold on to". They're not set up to develop him any further in the NHL, and there's nothing more for him to learn outside of the NHL. A first round pick will generally hold it's value for a couple years without playing in the NHL, and since the Leafs are loaded with depth up front / prospects who could challenge for NHL spots, the picks are what they value.

You're absolutely right that good goalies do not become available very often. However, that doesn't mean you drop everything to get one when he does become available. Much like the Canucks have made the decision that they'd rather go with Cory Schneider than Roberto Luongo, the Leafs would face a similar tough decision in choosing between James Reimer and Luongo, if acquired.

There's a quote from much earlier in this thread by a Canuck fan, to paraphrase, "Luongo will be be pretty good be a pretty good bet to be our #1 for the next 5-6 years, but Cory Schneider has the potential to be our #1 for the next 10-12 years". While I think the estimates are high on both players, the same holds true for Toronto.

There's a price at which you say, I can do enough good for my team now, without giving up too many future assets, that it's worth (basically) giving up on Reimer and trading for Luongo, and there's a price where it isn't. That price likely falls somewhere near Kadri, Lombardi, and a conditional 2nd that falls to a 2014 3rd if the Leafs fail to make the playoffs. It caps the futures given up at Kadri + a 2nd, and ensures that we don't sacrifice anyone important on our roster to make it work cap-wise, allowing us to become closer to contenders quicker.
I agree with much of what you are saying here. And to be honest the price you are willing to pay for Luongo is close to what I would ask. Personally If I was to make the deal I would need the 2nd changed to a 1st. And I think it's fair, because if you look at last trade deadline Paul Gaustad even commanded a 1st. Obviously everyone has their own opinion. I just think as a Leaf fan and management you need to ask yourself how long can you go without making the playoffs. That being said maybe the Leafs make the playoffs next year with Reimer.

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09-21-2012, 11:03 PM
  #597
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I dunno. Gagner, 1st, MPS, Klefbom, Hemsky, are all pieces I could see put together for a deal.
Not even individually.

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09-21-2012, 11:07 PM
  #598
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Thanks for the explanations, Vankiller Whale and Bourne Endeavor.

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09-21-2012, 11:18 PM
  #599
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Not even individually.
Hey, it's your team that was rumoured to make the offer. Better than the Leafs offer(whatever that was).

What do you think was offered?

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09-21-2012, 11:24 PM
  #600
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Hey, it's your team that was rumoured to make the offer. Better than the Leafs offer(whatever that was).

What do you think was offered?
Horcroff for Luongo + 1st


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