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Patrick Kane and his value

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Old
09-21-2012, 11:00 PM
  #26
Oh_so_saad
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he is a dam 24 year old. yah its time to grow up given his status. but he has done nothing no worse than anyone else did growing up. there is athletes in all sorts of sports that act like complete doosh tards that are in there 30's and no one seems to care really.

kane is an elite player that i dont see the blackhawks trading for a very long time. him and tazer in my opinion are the faces of the franchise

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09-21-2012, 11:32 PM
  #27
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Kane's value is absurd.

Kids of all age and race in Chicago know who Patrick Kane is. That matters more then a 66 point season where the kid was injured more then he let on.


If you seriously wanted to know Kanes value, chances are this forum would implode if the honest truth came out.

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09-21-2012, 11:52 PM
  #28
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Chicago won't trade Kane. There is nobody on the Hawks who is more exciting to watch. What he does with the puck is more valuable from an entertainment standpoint than the amount of points he could ever put up.
It is the same reason why I like to watch Ovie more than Stammer, because Ovie is a more exciting player rather than a one timer machine.

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Old
09-22-2012, 12:09 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoked-B View Post
If he's "elite", he's elite anywhere you put him (up front). I think it is pretty misleading to say the guy is elite if he can only be elite if he doesn't have to play a complete game. Since this thread is about value, and folks brought a comparison to Toews, how much more effective offensively would Toews be if he didn't have to play a two-way game? How about Hossa? How about Sharp?

I think Kane is a very good player, but I don't think he's elite, like some folks have suggested.
This argument you make is downright dumb. That would be like saying moving Stamkos to wing and him putting up 60 points would take away the fact he is elite. What if Crosby or Malkin move to wing and produce less would you take away the elite status? If you ever actually played hockey you would see and know the difference in plating centre and winger. It is not as simple as NHL 13 makes it out to be.

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09-22-2012, 12:15 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Id say Kanes value is in line with Kessels, maybe a bit more. I'm a big time fan of his game (hockey, that is it). Incredibly shifty and dynamic in the offensive zone, you don't find many players like that.
That is actually a fairly good comparison. Both are similar players, although I give the edge to Kane simply because he has proven to play out of position reasonably well. So Seguin, Hamilton and Knight. Sounds about right given the expectations associated to those prospects.

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09-22-2012, 12:18 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
You could slot him in with having the value of Kovalchuk,.
No way.

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09-22-2012, 01:04 AM
  #32
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This has been said multiple times in the past by myself and other posters but it really cannot be said enough. Chicago cannot deal Kane, he is literally the poster boy for the Hawks. He is the only member of our core who is American and that is way to important to the organization and how they plan on marketing the team. I truly believe that Kane holds more value to the Hawks than any player on the roster and that includes Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Sharp or Hossa.

To me it is absolutely baffling that people suggest Kane proposals and not any one of the other guys I mentioned especially when they would go before Kane did.

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09-22-2012, 01:07 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
This has been said multiple times in the past by myself and other posters but it really cannot be said enough. Chicago cannot deal Kane, he is literally the poster boy for the Hawks. He is the only member of our core who is American and that is way to important to the organization and how they plan on marketing the team. I truly believe that Kane holds more value to the Hawks than any player on the roster and that includes Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Sharp or Hossa.

To me it is absolutely baffling that people suggest Kane proposals and not any one of the other guys I mentioned especially when they would go before Kane did.
lol @ the thought that Toews would be traded before Kane.

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09-22-2012, 01:50 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
lol @ the thought that Toews would be traded before Kane.
While I dont believe that specificly, its kind of at a point where if one goes then the other will and a rebuild will start.

Unless you live in Chicago, you dont know the value of Patrick Kane. Throw out the fact that he is an elite player, but in a city where 75% of those who live there could care less about hockey, I would say 90% know who Patrick Kane is.

The Hawks built their entire marketing campaign around the kid, and in many audio bits, its something like "Come see Patrick Kane and the Blackhawks as they take on....".

Many of the posters here have no clue just how important Kane is, and I enjoy the LOL's from many of these paltry trade wishes they might have only because Kane, and I cant stand the guy, goes out and acts like a clown during the off season. The kid has "it", and there isnt any amount of scraps that can take that away from the Hawks. Thats why a trade is gonna have to blow McMoron out the water considering Stan Blowman would have to get his approval for anything like that to happen, and it just wont.

Slowly face it, grass hoppers, you just cant get Patrick Kane.

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Old
09-22-2012, 02:52 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
While I dont believe that specificly, its kind of at a point where if one goes then the other will and a rebuild will start.

Unless you live in Chicago, you dont know the value of Patrick Kane. Throw out the fact that he is an elite player, but in a city where 75% of those who live there could care less about hockey, I would say 90% know who Patrick Kane is.

The Hawks built their entire marketing campaign around the kid, and in many audio bits, its something like "Come see Patrick Kane and the Blackhawks as they take on....".

Many of the posters here have no clue just how important Kane is, and I enjoy the LOL's from many of these paltry trade wishes they might have only because Kane, and I cant stand the guy, goes out and acts like a clown during the off season. The kid has "it", and there isnt any amount of scraps that can take that away from the Hawks. Thats why a trade is gonna have to blow McMoron out the water considering Stan Blowman would have to get his approval for anything like that to happen, and it just wont.

Slowly face it, grass hoppers, you just cant get Patrick Kane.
I wasn't even talking about trading Kane. On that, I'd say selling low is a bad idea and that people are really underrating him here. He won't be traded anyway. They make too much money off of him.

I was laughing at:

Quote:
To me it is absolutely baffling that people suggest Kane proposals and not any one of the other guys I mentioned especially when they would go before Kane did.
Because if Blackhawks management traded Toews before Kane, they all should be fired.

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Old
09-22-2012, 03:34 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
Kane is an elite player.

The return would be another elite player, he won't be traded for quantity.
While I agree he's elite and should only be traded for someone of quality I have a pet peeve with the "won't be traded for quantity" remark. When stars are traded, it's usually for quantity. They happen but so rarely relative to quality vs. quantity

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Old
09-22-2012, 04:59 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
Here we have Kane, a player with excellent puck skills and vision,he has amassed 369 points in 399 games and is great in the playoffs adding 52 points so far in 51 games.

After wrist problems he had an off year with only 66 points, and on this site it seems his value has plummeted big time.

Size has never been an issue for Kane, always producing even in the playoffs.

Value wise I'm curious what do you feel he is worth?
He has different value to different teams. I am assuming this thread was started because Boston fans don't want to trade David Krejci and Dougie Hamilton for him, but you really have to understand that Dougie Hamilton is the exact player the Bruins need if he even close to reaches his potential. Kane would be great, but he isn't a need for the Bruins who were one of the best scoring teams in the league the last couple of seasons.

Kane is worth much more to a team that doesn't have much scoring than he is to a team that a team that does, that just has to be accepted. His value isn't being decided in a vacumn and there are plenty of things to take into account.

Your statemnet is making it sound like David Krejci+ something other than Hamilton as was suggested by many people as what they would be willing to give up for Kane is garbage.

Krejci is below Kane in offensive production and far, far above him in defensive play. I think a lot of you aren't giving Krejci the credit he is due, he did after all lead the league in scoring in the playoffs, he isn't chopped liver. Adding an additional player to Krejci seems fair to me you just have to understand the situation the Bruins are in and the fact that they aren't trading Hamilton for anyone unless it was part of a package for someone like Doughty or Pietrangelo and we all know that isn't happening.

Adding Patrick Kane to your team just doesn't add a possible young #1 D-man to your defense and if that is what you are looking for and you have Dougie Hamilton as a prospect, then you really aren't going to trade him for a forward.

Some people are having a hard time understanding that.

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Old
09-22-2012, 07:11 AM
  #38
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His value is skyhigh.

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09-22-2012, 07:35 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Wow, it has nothing to do with whether he can play a two-way game or not. Kane did an admirable job in the defensive zone as a center last season, especially considering it's not his natural position.

It's that he is a winger who was forced to completely change his mental state while playing the game due to the switch to center. It's a completely different game at that position... he had to go against his typical instincts and quite obviously his offense suffered.

Stick Hossa at center, he's not going to be putting up another 70+ point season. That isn't a slight to him... that doesn't even make any sense. It's simply that when you change a player's position, they will have trouble producing as much as at their natural position.
We'll have to agree to disagree on whether Hossa' production would drop if put at center. Unless I simply haven't been noticing, Hossa is considered a VERY good defensive player, so having him have to play a more two-way game should not impact him as much. I'm pointing out that a player that is an elite playmaker but is weak in other aspects of his game (defense, physicality) will have a more limited value than I think you realize. That doesn't mean the guy's value is of a package of 2nd/3rd liners, but (IMHO), I think almost every team has a guy with at least his value and even on the Blackhawks, I think his value is below that of Toews and Keith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
This argument you make is downright dumb. That would be like saying moving Stamkos to wing and him putting up 60 points would take away the fact he is elite. What if Crosby or Malkin move to wing and produce less would you take away the elite status? If you ever actually played hockey you would see and know the difference in plating centre and winger. It is not as simple as NHL 13 makes it out to be.
I actually play hockey, and don't play video games, and know exactly the difference in responsibilities of playing wing and center, but thanks for your concern. On what planet do you think moving Stamkos to wing would drop his point total to that of his GOAL total. You think his production would DROP when he no longer has to skate the full sheet of ice, or collapse down low to support his D near his net, required to take less faceoffs, and gets to be less physical in 1-on-1 battles because they happen to be in less dangerous parts of the ice? Or maybe you can tell me why playing center is considered more difficult/valuable than playing wing, since you obviously know hockey and I don't. I guess this is also where I should hurl an insult at your intelligence for even suggesting that Kane is at the level of these other three guys either offensively or all-around. (And Malkin has played wing, and I believe he did pretty well at it, too! Or do you think he was just a "product of Crosby"?)

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Old
09-22-2012, 08:15 AM
  #40
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Kane is a very good player... but his stats show he has regressed (points-wise) the past 3 seasons. 88 to 73 to 66. And Kane doesnt bring physicality or defensive prowess to the ice, so if he isnt scoring..he isnt doing much else.

It would cost Krejci +... but that + isnt Hamilton.

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09-22-2012, 09:53 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
Kane's last season skewed the stats
So should we ignore last season?Off year or not, stats are compiled the same for everyone. They are still his stats!

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09-22-2012, 10:28 AM
  #42
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I'd send Duchene+ for Kane.

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09-22-2012, 10:43 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
Kane is an elite player.

The return would be another elite player, he won't be traded for quantity.
Most elite-ish players get traded for quantity. That's nonsense. Rick Nash was traded for what? Joe Thornton? Richards? Carter?

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Old
09-22-2012, 11:06 AM
  #44
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I'd give you Milan Michalek and a 3rd

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09-22-2012, 12:27 PM
  #45
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Hes worth more than most arm chair GMs on HF would pay.

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Old
09-22-2012, 12:51 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Spoked-B View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree on whether Hossa' production would drop if put at center. Unless I simply haven't been noticing, Hossa is considered a VERY good defensive player, so having him have to play a more two-way game should not impact him as much. I'm pointing out that a player that is an elite playmaker but is weak in other aspects of his game (defense, physicality) will have a more limited value than I think you realize. That doesn't mean the guy's value is of a package of 2nd/3rd liners, but (IMHO), I think almost every team has a guy with at least his value and even on the Blackhawks, I think his value is below that of Toews and Keith.


Deriding a winger because his production dropped when switched to a completely new position is one of the most awful arguments I have ever seen on HF. And let me tell you, that is saying something.

Kane would have the same or slightly less value than Toews - he is a fair bit more dynamic of an offensive player. A down year playing more than half of it out of position doesn't suddenly change that.
And Keith? Nearly on the wrong side of 30? His value is not greater than Kane's.

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Old
09-22-2012, 12:52 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Most elite-ish players get traded for quantity. That's nonsense. Rick Nash was traded for what? Joe Thornton? Richards? Carter?
Rick Nash asked for a trade, decreasing his value tremendously in the process. Doesn't help matters that his contract is pretty bad and he's not as good as Kane to begin with.

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Old
09-22-2012, 01:22 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post


Deriding a winger because his production dropped when switched to a completely new position is one of the most awful arguments I have ever seen on HF. And let me tell you, that is saying something.

Kane would have the same or slightly less value than Toews - he is a fair bit more dynamic of an offensive player. A down year playing more than half of it out of position doesn't suddenly change that.
And Keith? Nearly on the wrong side of 30? His value is not greater than Kane's.

Toews is FAR more valuable than Kane! Toews plays both ends of the ice.. Kane if not scoring is pretty much invisible. And their offensive stats are similar.

All you've done throughout this thread (&the other Kane thread) is make excuses for Kane.. "wrist injury", "Hawks shoddy PP", "playing out of position"...yada yada yada. Fact is Kane is a career 73point player. If that's "elite" in your opinion, more power to you.

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09-22-2012, 01:39 PM
  #49
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Good old HF, where being great defensively vs. being competent defensively makes a net difference of +/- 75 points for a player's stat sheet.

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Old
09-22-2012, 01:43 PM
  #50
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There is no way Kane is better than Toews. Watch every single Hawks game and you'll understand why. Toews isn't all about points - albeit he does rack them up. He's probably one of the top three captains in the league, if not the best.

As for Kane's value, he would probably bring back a top six centre, it's just that no team would be willing to give up that "top-six" centre.

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