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Brian Burke vs. Marc Bergevin

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Old
09-22-2012, 12:23 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
If this lockout lasts the whole season, then next year could be our LAST season with Kessel. I wouldn't blame him if he signs elsewher... the leafs are still a disaster.

And Seguin will be going into year three, and the guy touted last year as the highest rated defensive prospect in the world would be going into his rookie year.

I would 100% call that mortgaging our future.
If if if.Get back to me when Kessel leaves.

Give him a massive contract and he'll gladly re-sign.

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09-22-2012, 12:28 AM
  #152
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With the possible exception of Gardiner... every single solitary team in the nhl is loaded with players exactly like those guys. Every single team.
And their GM's aren't the highest paid in all of world history.

Only leafs fans would be proud of a bunch of 3rd line/4th pairing projected prospects.
Who cares what Burke makes? He was the biggest name available. It makes sense he got a big payday.

It doesn't count against the cap so who cares?

Should the NHl's richest team get a no name making the minimum for being GM?

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09-22-2012, 12:32 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
If this lockout lasts the whole season, then we could see just ONE more season with Kessel. I wouldn't blame him if he signs elsewhere... the leafs are still a disaster.

And Seguin will be going into year three, and the guy touted last year as the highest rated defensive prospect in the world would be going into his rookie year.

I would 100% call that mortgaging our future.
Or, Kessel signs an extension next summer.

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09-22-2012, 12:37 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
Or, Kessel signs an extension next summer.
We must make the Kessel deal seem as bad as possible, therefore, he will never re-sign..

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09-22-2012, 02:02 AM
  #155
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Holmgren also developed those 3 guys from bottom-of-the-lineup players / prospects to valuable contributors.

It's easy to look back at players he successfully converted into great ones, but where's Jiri Tlusty? (side note, is he playing for Jagr's team in the Czech Republic??)



Rebuilding is what teams who have a terrible season should (and most often) do. There's obviously different ways to do it, Holmgren executed almost perfectly, Burke's been a complete disaster. 4 years in and we're still hoping for a playoff spot. Holmgren hasn't missed the playoffs since he took over, and made a Stanley Cup Finals appearance. Obviously no cup so he doesn't get full marks, but that's a pretty solid track record.

Philadelphia was the worst or second worst team in hockey when Paul Holmgren took over, IIRC.
In ONE season. It's not like Philly was terrible for years or something. They had one terrible season. You think maybe it was a fluke? I'm not going to take anything away from Holmgren, but if you're gonna have this discussion at least try to keep it honest.

Although I will say this. He built an absolutely stellar team in LA


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09-22-2012, 02:04 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Now your're suddenly throwing out that 24 stat to try to change the argument.
the key players on this team are also much younger.

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09-22-2012, 02:06 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Getting a 21 year-old who now finished 6th in league scoring is hardly "Mortgaging the future". Why try to make it sound like Kessel was a 33 year-old soon-to-be UFA? He's a superstar winger.
It's funny how often Kessel is downplayed in the Kessel deal.

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09-22-2012, 03:03 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
If if if.Get back to me when Kessel leaves.

Give him a massive contract and he'll gladly re-sign.
If he leaves the trade will be a Chernobyl.

If he re-signs the trade will be a 3 mile island.

Either way, not looking too good for ol' Burkie boy.

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09-22-2012, 03:06 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Who cares what Burke makes? He was the biggest name available. It makes sense he got a big payday.

It doesn't count against the cap so who cares?

Should the NHl's richest team get a no name making the minimum for being GM?
Just like with literally everything else ever in the world...
a higher salary comes with higher expectations.

These are things that I should not have to be explaining to people.

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09-22-2012, 07:07 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Who cares what Burke makes? He was the biggest name available. It makes sense he got a big payday.

It doesn't count against the cap so who cares?

Should the NHl's richest team get a no name making the minimum for being GM?
...but Roger, it's ALL OF WORLD HISTORY!!! OH NOOOOEEESSS!!!

Seriously, do we have a chicken little smilie here or one with a chicken running around with its head lopped off?

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09-22-2012, 07:09 AM
  #161
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Someone wake me when it's proven Burke lost that trade.

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09-22-2012, 07:13 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
Or, Kessel signs an extension next summer.
I think Kessel is a great player. I think there's a chance he resigns, the Leafs can afford big $ but maybe he wants to play with a contender. If Burke makes no significant moves or the lockout lasts the entire year, Kessel might question the ability of the Leafs to contend for a playoff spot and decide to sign elsewhere. This is frequent with UFAs.

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09-22-2012, 07:22 AM
  #163
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Someone wake me when it's proven Burke lost that trade.
But that's like Nashville fans saying;
"Someone prove to me we lost the Lebda trade. Gardiner could be crippled overnight, Lombardi could get another concussion, and out of nowhere... Lebda may put up 30 goals as a defenseman."

"It MIGHT happen. It's possible. So as of now, nobody's won the trade".

"Someone wake me when it's proven we lost that trade."


You have to admit... at some point it's just silly to cling to such trivialities.

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09-22-2012, 07:29 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
But that's like Nashville fans saying;
"Someone prove to me we lost the Lebda trade. Gardiner could be crippled overnight, Lombardi could get another concussion, and out of nowhere... Lebda may put up 30 goals as a defenseman."

"It MIGHT happen. It's possible. So as of now, nobody's won the trade".

"Someone wake me when it's proven we lost that trade."


You have to admit... at some point it's just silly to cling to such trivialities.
Is it silly to repeatedly say "the highest paid GM in world history" when you have no idea what most GMs make? Still, you beat the drum ad nauseum.....

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09-22-2012, 08:52 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
It's funny how often Kessel is downplayed in the Kessel deal.
I find that odd as well. He's quite often not even considered in the. "Kessel trade".

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09-22-2012, 09:07 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
But that's like Nashville fans saying;
"Someone prove to me we lost the Lebda trade. Gardiner could be crippled overnight, Lombardi could get another concussion, and out of nowhere... Lebda may put up 30 goals as a defenseman."

"It MIGHT happen. It's possible. So as of now, nobody's won the trade".

"Someone wake me when it's proven we lost that trade."


You have to admit... at some point it's just silly to cling to such trivialities.
Gardiner wasn't part of the Lebda deal. I think you need to go find your head.

Nashville doesn't even have Lebda anymore either!

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09-22-2012, 09:13 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
But that's like Nashville fans saying;
"Someone prove to me we lost the Lebda trade. Gardiner could be crippled overnight, Lombardi could get another concussion, and out of nowhere... Lebda may put up 30 goals as a defenseman."

"It MIGHT happen. It's possible. So as of now, nobody's won the trade".

"Someone wake me when it's proven we lost that trade."


You have to admit... at some point it's just silly to cling to such trivialities.
Another thing. How could the trade be such a humiliation when our 24 year old winger(yeay yeah i know he's pretty close to retiring by your standards) was just a top scorer in the "WHOLE WORLD"!

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09-22-2012, 09:14 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
But that's like Nashville fans saying;
"Someone prove to me we lost the Lebda trade. Gardiner could be crippled overnight, Lombardi could get another concussion, and out of nowhere... Lebda may put up 30 goals as a defenseman."

"It MIGHT happen. It's possible. So as of now, nobody's won the trade".

"Someone wake me when it's proven we lost that trade."


You have to admit... at some point it's just silly to cling to such trivialities.
Foot meet mouth: Gardiner was in the Beauchemin deal. Franson was in the Lebda deal.

If you're going to brow beat using the same tired complaint (singular) and pronounce how you're so right and every counter opinion is so wrong...Could you at least get the specific elements of the deal you're citing correct, as a support for your rant ?


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09-22-2012, 09:21 AM
  #169
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Foot meet mouth: Gardiner was in the Beauchemin deal. Franson was in the Lebda deal.

If you're going to brow beat using the same tired complaint (singular) and pronounce how you're so right and every counter opinion is so wrong...Could you at least get the specific elements of the deal you're citing correct, as a support for your rant ?

You're right.
I confused Gardiner and Franson on that trade.

I guess that proves that Burke is a genius of a GM.

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09-22-2012, 09:54 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
You're right.
I confused Gardiner and Franson on that trade.

I guess that proves that Burke is a genius of a GM.
Good return on both deals for sure. Genius? I suppose if one were to polarize their arguments.

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09-22-2012, 10:08 AM
  #171
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Congrats on the worst thread ever OP.

You're comparing a GM who has almost 17 years of experience, to one that has almost 5 months.

One has over a 1000 games as a GM, one has 0.

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09-22-2012, 10:13 AM
  #172
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Congrats on the worst thread ever OP.

You're comparing a GM who has almost 17 years of experience, to one that has almost 5 months.

One has over a 1000 games as a GM, one has 0.
You have to understand, this no longer the Leafs board.
Its the bash Burke board. The OP, IMO, is trying to bash Burke, by
saying a GM with 0 games is even better than he.


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09-22-2012, 10:18 AM
  #173
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Marc Bergevin inherited a team near the bottom of the league and began his rebuild plan on utilizing the draft.

Burke inherited a team near the bottom of the league, and immediately traded away his next 2 X 1st round picks + more to fuel his rebuild, claiming "July 1st was his entry draft".

Bergevin took the patient approach of building through the entry draft, and Burke jumped in with both feet through trades and UFA signings to accelerate his rebuild based on lack of patience.

That is the major difference in team building philosophies between the two GMs in comparison here.

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09-22-2012, 10:36 AM
  #174
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Incorrect Mess, Burke drafted first just like Bergevin did.

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09-22-2012, 10:47 AM
  #175
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Can't blame a rookie GM for looking up to one of the best

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