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Vancouver - Columbus

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Old
09-22-2012, 12:44 PM
  #1
Hi-wayman
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Vancouver - Columbus

To Columbus: Cory Schneider plus maybe a top four defenseman like Keith Ballard or even Alex Edler if the Canucks can't re-sign him to a decent contract.

I'm not sure what Columbus would offer Vancouver in return, but Gillis has maintained that he is looking for youth, size and would expect at least one roster player, one prospect and one draft pick in return if either Cory or Luongo was traded. If Ballard, Edler orr any other Canuck player or draft pick was added, I'm sure the Canucks would want more. The Canucks are looking to win now, but Gillis has also said he wants to build a team that can be considered a contender year after year.

Suggestions?

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09-22-2012, 12:46 PM
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nhlfan9191
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Keith Ballard is not a top 4 defenseman. He's an overpaid 6th defenseman. Trading Schneider and Ballard together would have the same value as trading Schneider and a 7th round draft pick.

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09-22-2012, 12:50 PM
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TSA0402
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Columbus traded for Bobrovsky, which means they are committed to giving him a shot. Also, they used the draft to address goaltending.

Schneider is better than Bob, but not by enough to trade valuable assets for him.

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09-22-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
That is your opinion. That said this thread is not about Ballard's skills. Go crawl back under your bridge
Apparently your team feels the same way because he's scratched more often then not.

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09-22-2012, 12:57 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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Out of what Columbus currently has, Ryan Johansen and Ryan Murray are two players I would target, but I doubt either will be moved any time soon. Are needs are a top-6 forward or a potential franchise defenseman.

I dunno. If your first round pick were on the table, that would also be of interest. I don't think we make the greatest of trading partners, but introducing a third team might make it easier.

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09-22-2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Apparently your team feels the same way because he's scratched more often then not.


Haven't we been through this before?

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09-22-2012, 01:06 PM
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nhlfan9191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post


Haven't we been through this before?
The OP's post made it sound like Ballard is a clear cut top 4 denfenseman which is incredibly untruthful.

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09-22-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
The OP's post made it sound like Ballard is a clear cut top 4 denfenseman which is incredibly untruthful.
So is saying he's scratched more often than not.

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09-22-2012, 01:18 PM
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nhlfan9191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So is saying he's scratched more often than not.
Why not leave Ballard out of proposals. I gets why Canuck fans go crazy when Luongo is called a cap dump. But Ballard... Come on.

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09-22-2012, 01:21 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Why not leave Ballard out of proposals. I gets why Canuck fans go crazy when Luongo is called a cap dump. But Ballard... Come on.
The OP was very general, saying a top 4 defenseman like Ballard or Edler(opposite sides of the spectrum). He didn't even make a proposal of what they would garner. Just wondered what Columbus would want and what they'd give up.

That said, I don't think Columbus needs anymore defensemen.

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09-22-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
The OP was very general, saying a top 4 defenseman like Ballard or Edler(opposite sides of the spectrum). He didn't even make a proposal of what they would garner. Just wondered what Columbus would want and what they'd give up.

That said, I don't think Columbus needs anymore defensemen.
Then fair enough. I wasn't ripping the OP apart on anything other than the Ballard sentence. Columbus has enough problems as it is. Ballard would just add to their problem.

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09-22-2012, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
The OP was very general, saying a top 4 defenseman like Ballard or Edler(opposite sides of the spectrum). He didn't even make a proposal of what they would garner. Just wondered what Columbus would want and what they'd give up.

That said, I don't think Columbus needs anymore defensemen.
Ballard is not a top-4 dman. Ballard is an overpaid 5/6 dman. He should be left out of this proposal as he is considered a cap dump.

Brassard for Schneider is fair value.

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09-22-2012, 01:32 PM
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Hi-wayman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Columbus traded for Bobrovsky, which means they are committed to giving him a shot. Also, they used the draft to address goaltending.

Schneider is better than Bob, but not by enough to trade valuable assets for him.
Bobrovsky has had two seasons as a minor backup goalie on a team that has not relied on having anything but a mediocure goal tending system. Not only are Cory or Luongo better than Bobrovsky, they are in the elite first string goalie class while Bobrovsky at best is still an average NHL backup goalie.

As for Columbus addressing their goal tending problems through the draft, have you any idea how many years it takes to develop a goalie just drafted until, if successful, he could be considered even an average first string goalie in the NHL? Cory Schneider was a first round draft pick, so was considered to have a pretty good chance to make it compared to most and Cory is now just entering his 9th year of development and his first year as a number 1 goalie.

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09-22-2012, 01:33 PM
  #14
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Ballard is not a top-4 dman. Ballard is an overpaid 5/6 dman. He should be left out of this proposal as he is considered a cap dump.

Brassard for Schneider is fair value.
Agree there is no use for Ballard in this proposal, simply because Columbus doesn't need him.

Schneider for a 40ish point forward is far from fair.

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09-22-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
To Columbus: Cory Schneider plus maybe a top four defenseman like Keith Ballard or even Alex Edler if the Canucks can't re-sign him to a decent contract.

I'm not sure what Columbus would offer Vancouver in return, but Gillis has maintained that he is looking for youth, size and would expect at least one roster player, one prospect and one draft pick in return if either Cory or Luongo was traded. If Ballard, Edler orr any other Canuck player or draft pick was added, I'm sure the Canucks would want more. The Canucks are looking to win now, but Gillis has also said he wants to build a team that can be considered a contender year after year.

Suggestions?
Judging by the high price they paid for Bobrovsky, I thnk Columbus views his upside as a quality #1 goalie. I doubt they give up on him this early.

And if Edler, ufa in 2013, won't sign an extension for a reasonable amount with Vancouver, why would he with Columbus, where he has no ties or loyalty?

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09-22-2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Agree there is no use for Ballard in this proposal, simply because Columbus doesn't need him.

Schneider for a 40ish point forward is far from fair.
Schneider has never been a #1 goaltender.. He is unproven. He has shown flashes of brilliant play, but until he shows that consistancy for a full season, he is simply a goaltender with starter 'potential'.

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09-22-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Agree there is no use for Ballard in this proposal, simply because Columbus doesn't need him.

Schneider for a 40ish point forward is far from fair.
Depends. Does Vancouver expect a breakout from Brassard? They'd be trading for his potential, just like Columbus would be trading for Schneider's potential.

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09-22-2012, 01:51 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Schneider has never been a #1 goaltender.. He is unproven. He has shown flashes of brilliant play, but until he shows that consistancy for a full season, he is simply a goaltender with starter 'potential'.
So then shouldn't a similar player be coming back(a la Ryan Johansen or Ryan Murray?)

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09-22-2012, 01:52 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Depends. Does Vancouver expect a breakout from Brassard? They'd be trading for his potential, just like Columbus would be trading for Schneider's potential.
Simply put, I'm not expecting anything spectacular out of Brassard.

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09-22-2012, 02:03 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Keith Ballard is not a top 4 defenseman. He's an overpaid 6th defenseman. Trading Schneider and Ballard together would have the same value as trading Schneider and a 7th round draft pick.
Just because he can't outplay Hamhuis and Edler on the Canucks doesn't mean he isn't a top 4 defensemen any more. The Canucks have almost turned him into a player now, it wasn't easy after Florida and Phoenix let him wing it the first half of his career.

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Old
09-22-2012, 02:09 PM
  #21
vadim sharifijanov
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schneids and edler to columbus? any trade involving those two would have to include a player the jackets no longer have.

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09-22-2012, 02:13 PM
  #22
Hi-wayman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Schneider has never been a #1 goaltender.. He is unproven. He has shown flashes of brilliant play, but until he shows that consistancy for a full season, he is simply a goaltender with starter 'potential'.
Luongo though is a proven starter goalie and though many don't like his present contract, few would deny his skill. Gillis has stated Vancouver intends to contnue building a cup contender team, but has also stated he would be willing to trade Luongo and let Cory take on the first string goalie duties for the Canucks. I think you could assume that if the Canucks are willing to trade away a proven and elite goalie of Luongo's calibre, the Canucks feel Schneider's "potential" is pretty darn solid and a non issue.

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09-22-2012, 02:17 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Bobrovsky has had two seasons as a minor backup goalie on a team that has not relied on having anything but a mediocure goal tending system. Not only are Cory or Luongo better than Bobrovsky, they are in the elite first string goalie class while Bobrovsky at best is still an average NHL backup goalie.

As for Columbus addressing their goal tending problems through the draft, have you any idea how many years it takes to develop a goalie just drafted until, if successful, he could be considered even an average first string goalie in the NHL? Cory Schneider was a first round draft pick, so was considered to have a pretty good chance to make it compared to most and Cory is now just entering his 9th year of development and his first year as a number 1 goalie.
Yea we'll go with Bob. If he really sucks and we get MacKinnon, best move for the franchise. Could probably survive with average(Theodore) esque goaltending with all that talent after that.

Why can't you understand how little sense your proposal makes for Columbus? Yea we want to give up our future for a 10th place finish...

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09-22-2012, 02:27 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So then shouldn't a similar player be coming back(a la Ryan Johansen or Ryan Murray?)
Yes, but Johansen (20yo) and Murray (18yo) are too young to fit the bill of "similar player."

Lets find a 26yo player with few NHL experience but showing big potential. Someone like Matt Read maybe?

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09-22-2012, 02:30 PM
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Trading an upcoming UFA Edler ? so i guess you assume the lockout wont last the years ?

And even then, usually a team going for a cup run doesn't trade an upcoming UFA to a team not expecting to make the playoff....

Vancouver and Colombus are bad trading partner for Edler.

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