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Matt Martin agrees to 4-year ($1M/year) contract

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09-19-2012, 01:03 AM
  #51
ScaredStreit
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Originally Posted by IslesArchieFan View Post
What about Vis?

Attracting UFA's can not be attributed to Snow's abilities. Between the current team they ice, the arena they play in, and the future of the team what UFA's would sign here?
Snow acquired Vis in a trade (something he doesn't do that well-because he rarely makes them). He also doesn't acquire UFAs well. Regardless of the excuses we can all make, AND how true they are-he still doesn't get UFAs. Period. You can't do something well if you don't do it (or aren't capable of doing so).

What else is Snow good at? Stockpiling top-5 picks with a pathetic on-ice product? Getting lucky in getting JT (due to icing the worst team in the season). Hiring incompetent coaches? Give me a break. I give credit when it's deserved, such as resigning RFAs. I don't give credit however with year-in, year-out bottom 5 finishes, and a seemingly never ending rebuild.

edit: And I guaranteed if MM was still GM-he'd be getting crucified for the team over the past few years.

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09-19-2012, 01:08 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
To be fair, Smith signed mostly cast-offs, last-chancers and nobodies. Witt had huge question marks and was coming off of a poor season. Poti was booed out of MSG. Andy Hilbert and Chris Simon were basically nothing. Mike Sillinger was the crown jewel of the Smith signings and as much as I liked him here and thought he was a good signing, he was in the twilight of his career.
All very true, smith had half a offseason and the guy knew how to bring in the right players to create a playoff teams. Hell half a off season and he created a boarderline playoff team. Alot can be said about that. Give the guy alot of credit.

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09-19-2012, 12:10 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Snow acquired Vis in a trade (something he doesn't do that well-because he rarely makes them). He also doesn't acquire UFAs well. Regardless of the excuses we can all make, AND how true they are-he still doesn't get UFAs. Period. You can't do something well if you don't do it (or aren't capable of doing so).

What else is Snow good at? Stockpiling top-5 picks with a pathetic on-ice product? Getting lucky in getting JT (due to icing the worst team in the season). Hiring incompetent coaches? Give me a break. I give credit when it's deserved, such as resigning RFAs. I don't give credit however with year-in, year-out bottom 5 finishes, and a seemingly never ending rebuild.

edit: And I guaranteed if MM was still GM-he'd be getting crucified for the team over the past few years.
The only part I agree with is the fact that Snow doesn't make trades. He has built up a pretty stacked group of prospects but has yet to really use any of them as trade chips, outside of the Ryan Smyth deal 5 years ago.

That said, I think Snow's actually done a decent job of bringing in UFAs. Considering he hasn't exactly been given much room to work with under the cap, he was still able to bring in guys like Streit, Moulson, Grabner, Parenteau, and Nabokov. All of these guys except Streit signed for cheap contracts, and pretty much went under the radar at the time. Ultimately, they turned into a top-4, arguably top-pairing defenseman; a 3-time 30-goal scorer, who's goal totals have increased every year so far; a 25 year old winger who has averaged 27 goals over the last 2 seasons and is arguably the fastest skater in the NHL; a guy who just put up a 67-point season; and a goaltender who most people thought was washed up, yet ended up posting some of the best numbers we've seen in years from that position.

Sure, he swung and missed a few times with the likes of Eaton, Jurcina, Mottau, Reasoner, but I think you'll have a hard time finding a GM in this league who has a 100% success rate. On the bright side, each of these guys were signed on to short-term deals at relatively low salary numbers, so we haven't been locked in to any brutal contracts.

As far as the never ending rebuild goes... we all knew this was going to take some time. Considering this has been a complete build from within type deal, and the rebuild didn't really start until the '08-09 season, I'd say we are pretty much on schedule. That's four years of being a bad hockey team. A little longer than most of us would have liked, but considering this team's approach of holding onto their young players and building from within, it honestly makes sense for it to take this long.

Actually, there's one other part I do agree with you on. The coaching has been pretty brutal under GMG's tenure. I think Snow should have went out this offseason to find someone else. That said, maybe he and the Isles see something in Cap that the rest of us don't. Either way, I'm sure this will be Cappys last season if the team struggles again(assuming they play at some point).

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09-19-2012, 02:15 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
The only part I agree with is the fact that Snow doesn't make trades. He has built up a pretty stacked group of prospects but has yet to really use any of them as trade chips, outside of the Ryan Smyth deal 5 years ago.

That said, I think Snow's actually done a decent job of bringing in UFAs. Considering he hasn't exactly been given much room to work with under the cap, he was still able to bring in guys like Streit, Moulson, Grabner, Parenteau, and Nabokov. All of these guys except Streit signed for cheap contracts, and pretty much went under the radar at the time. Ultimately, they turned into a top-4, arguably top-pairing defenseman; a 3-time 30-goal scorer, who's goal totals have increased every year so far; a 25 year old winger who has averaged 27 goals over the last 2 seasons and is arguably the fastest skater in the NHL; a guy who just put up a 67-point season; and a goaltender who most people thought was washed up, yet ended up posting some of the best numbers we've seen in years from that position.

Sure, he swung and missed a few times with the likes of Eaton, Jurcina, Mottau, Reasoner, but I think you'll have a hard time finding a GM in this league who has a 100% success rate. On the bright side, each of these guys were signed on to short-term deals at relatively low salary numbers, so we haven't been locked in to any brutal contracts.

As far as the never ending rebuild goes... we all knew this was going to take some time. Considering this has been a complete build from within type deal, and the rebuild didn't really start until the '08-09 season, I'd say we are pretty much on schedule. That's four years of being a bad hockey team. A little longer than most of us would have liked, but considering this team's approach of holding onto their young players and building from within, it honestly makes sense for it to take this long.

Actually, there's one other part I do agree with you on. The coaching has been pretty brutal under GMG's tenure. I think Snow should have went out this offseason to find someone else. That said, maybe he and the Isles see something in Cap that the rest of us don't. Either way, I'm sure this will be Cappys last season if the team struggles again(assuming they play at some point).
-Parenteau and Moulson were good pickups. But let's be honest-the only reason why we got them was because no other team would touch them with a 10-foot pole. They turned out to be good signings. Then again Snow just let PAP go (who signed a reasonable deal in Colorado). So I'm not sure how much credit I give him on PAP.

-I think Streit was a great pickup, no arguments from me there.

-Grabner's still a question mark. A $3million hit over the next 4 years isn't a good contract for him. I think what we safe last year is what we're going to get from him. And yes for the record I said that after his first year as an Islander. He has legs-and that's about it. Ultimately that doesn't lead to somebody being worthy of being locked up on a 5-year deal, with a $3million hit-that's backloaded.

-Snow didn't get Nabokov as a UFA pickup.

-Eventually the team (aka-Snow) has to get out of the rebuilding mindset. There comes a time when it's time to take the next step. Most people expected that to have happened by this point. Other teams that have been rebuilding as long as we have are showing signs of improve. If the Isles were showing improvement-I would agree with you 100%. But unfortunately another bottom-5 finish is not improvement.

-Also the we haven't been a bad team since 2009, we were also bad in 2008, and mediocre in 2008 (yes making the playoffs as the 8th seeded team, aka-the average finish in the conference the last day of the season makes you a mediocre team). Just because the rebuild started in 2009, doesn't mean we weren't bad before then, or that that's not Snow's fault.

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09-19-2012, 02:34 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
-Parenteau and Moulson were good pickups. But let's be honest-the only reason why we got them was because no other team would touch them with a 10-foot pole. They turned out to be good signings. Then again Snow just let PAP go (who signed a reasonable deal in Colorado). So I'm not sure how much credit I give him on PAP.

-I think Streit was a great pickup, no arguments from me there.

-Grabner's still a question mark. A $3million hit over the next 4 years isn't a good contract for him. I think what we safe last year is what we're going to get from him. And yes for the record I said that after his first year as an Islander. He has legs-and that's about it. Ultimately that doesn't lead to somebody being worthy of being locked up on a 5-year deal, with a $3million hit-that's backloaded.

-Snow didn't get Nabokov as a UFA pickup.

-Eventually the team (aka-Snow) has to get out of the rebuilding mindset. There comes a time when it's time to take the next step. Most people expected that to have happened by this point. Other teams that have been rebuilding as long as we have are showing signs of improve. If the Isles were showing improvement-I would agree with you 100%. But unfortunately another bottom-5 finish is not improvement.

-Also the we haven't been a bad team since 2009, we were also bad in 2008, and mediocre in 2008 (yes making the playoffs as the 8th seeded team, aka-the average finish in the conference the last day of the season makes you a mediocre team). Just because the rebuild started in 2009, doesn't mean we weren't bad before then, or that that's not Snow's fault.
I think we can agree.....Smith was great at picking up hot cougars and solid 7's. Snow is pretty good at picking up the better fatties and butterfaces.

There is better. Snow could very well parlay his success into more. But Smith got results with his stable.

I hope Snow or whoever replaces him can land a ten. (we drafted Tavares, so chalk that one up as a mail order bride in this gay-talk metaphorical scenario, though with us finishing ast so often, I could say it's a sympathy.......play)

And apologies to women out there offended.....it's a guy thing. We're Cretans at heart but we can fix stuff.

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09-19-2012, 02:44 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
-Grabner's still a question mark. A $3million hit over the next 4 years isn't a good contract for him. I think what we safe last year is what we're going to get from him. And yes for the record I said that after his first year as an Islander. He has legs-and that's about it. Ultimately that doesn't lead to somebody being worthy of being locked up on a 5-year deal, with a $3million hit-that's backloaded.
Eh, I think the contract is fine. The average contract is like $2.4m. Grabner's deal isn't gonna be something that hurts the team, even if you could make the argument that he's 500k overpaid. Even if he settles into being a 20 goal guy, he still pops in some goals, plays decent on the PK and is a threat to breakaway no matter what.

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09-19-2012, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
Eh, I think the contract is fine. The average contract is like $2.4m. Grabner's deal isn't gonna be something that hurts the team, even if you could make the argument that he's 500k overpaid. Even if he settles into being a 20 goal guy, he still pops in some goals, plays decent on the PK and is a threat to breakaway no matter what.
If he lights the lamp, steal. If he's only 10-15 goals but learns to PK and play better defense with his speed? Steal. (part of me would be thrilled with the latter to have a Tom Fitzgerald clone on the roster with Nielson)

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09-19-2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
Eh, I think the contract is fine. The average contract is like $2.4m. Grabner's deal isn't gonna be something that hurts the team, even if you could make the argument that he's 500k overpaid. Even if he settles into being a 20 goal guy, he still pops in some goals, plays decent on the PK and is a threat to breakaway no matter what.
I have no problem paying Grabner 3 million a season. He is arguably the fastest skater in the game, he is good on the penalty kill and has 34 and 20 goal seasons.

He'll be coming off a disappointing sophomore season and ready to bounce back up.

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09-19-2012, 07:18 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
Eh, I think the contract is fine. The average contract is like $2.4m. Grabner's deal isn't gonna be something that hurts the team, even if you could make the argument that he's 500k overpaid. Even if he settles into being a 20 goal guy, he still pops in some goals, plays decent on the PK and is a threat to breakaway no matter what.
I agree, I don't think it's a terrible contract (and I do like Grabner despite what I said earlier). I just don't think it's something to write home about, or something to brag about being a great signing.

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09-19-2012, 07:28 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
-Parenteau and Moulson were good pickups. But let's be honest-the only reason why we got them was because no other team would touch them with a 10-foot pole. They turned out to be good signings. Then again Snow just let PAP go (who signed a reasonable deal in Colorado). So I'm not sure how much credit I give him on PAP.

-I think Streit was a great pickup, no arguments from me there.

-Grabner's still a question mark. A $3million hit over the next 4 years isn't a good contract for him. I think what we safe last year is what we're going to get from him. And yes for the record I said that after his first year as an Islander. He has legs-and that's about it. Ultimately that doesn't lead to somebody being worthy of being locked up on a 5-year deal, with a $3million hit-that's backloaded.

-Snow didn't get Nabokov as a UFA pickup.

-Eventually the team (aka-Snow) has to get out of the rebuilding mindset. There comes a time when it's time to take the next step. Most people expected that to have happened by this point. Other teams that have been rebuilding as long as we have are showing signs of improve. If the Isles were showing improvement-I would agree with you 100%. But unfortunately another bottom-5 finish is not improvement.

-Also the we haven't been a bad team since 2009, we were also bad in 2008, and mediocre in 2008 (yes making the playoffs as the 8th seeded team, aka-the average finish in the conference the last day of the season makes you a mediocre team). Just because the rebuild started in 2009, doesn't mean we weren't bad before then, or that that's not Snow's fault.
That kind of nonsensical logic irks the **** out of me even more than just the general Snow bashing. The fact that teams were not interested in Moulson or Parenteau makes finding them even more remarkable. This just adds to Snows credibility, it does not take away from it.

I am in agreement with most that the rebuild is taking longer than I wanted. I am also living in reality where an arena not fit for the NHL, an expiring contract, and a town that could give a **** about the Isles is SEVERELY hampering any opportunity to take that next step. Until those things change I will not blame Snow for things out of his control.

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09-19-2012, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
Eh, I think the contract is fine. The average contract is like $2.4m. Grabner's deal isn't gonna be something that hurts the team, even if you could make the argument that he's 500k overpaid. Even if he settles into being a 20 goal guy, he still pops in some goals, plays decent on the PK and is a threat to breakaway no matter what.
Agree with this as well. Even a guy that is having trouble finishing still provides a threat on the ice with his speed. It keeps defenseman cheating a little and maybe they can't keep a puck in the offensive zone at the blue line because they see Grabner on the ice and cheat back a little. His speed affects the play even if it doesn't show up on the score sheet. Teams aren't going to just let him go in on breakaways because they say to themselves, "Hell he can't score who cares".

If I judged Grabner on his first two seasons I would say getting him has been a steal, but his contract is a slight overpayment. Nothing that's gonna kill the team in the long run though.

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09-19-2012, 07:38 PM
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That kind of nonsensical logic irks the **** out of me even more than just the general Snow bashing. The fact that teams were not interested in Moulson or Parenteau makes finding them even more remarkable. This just adds to Snows credibility, it does not take away from it.

I am in agreement with most that the rebuild is taking longer than I wanted. I am also living in reality where an arena not fit for the NHL, an expiring contract, and a town that could give a **** about the Isles is SEVERELY hampering any opportunity to take that next step. Until those things change I will not blame Snow for things out of his control.
You can say that it made finding Moulon/PAP more remarkable...or it could be lucky. Signing a player to a VERY low-risk contract, when nobody else wants them is easy. It's not something to pat yourself on the back about. He signed two VERY fringe NHL players that panned out.

Excuses. Snow's job is to ice a good team. While those things certainly don't help him, and absolutely do hurt him. It's his job. Period. MM had the same exact disadvantages, and the same people who loved ripping into him, and giving every excuse in the book for Snow. If Snow's last name was Milbury-he'd be booed out of town.

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09-19-2012, 09:45 PM
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Piecemeal roster determined by UFA acquisitions or one-year deals with little to no chance of getting within sniffing distance of the cup, or a few crap years, a mountain of patience and the strong likelihood of a strong team in the event we ever see the NHL end this lockout?

When you want something bad enough, getting it "right now" is even a step too late, but ownership, league perception and the arena situation are far worse issues with this team than general management, IMO.

That being said, IF the hockey season started on time, this isn't quite the stage in a rebuild I'd start swapping pieces. Considering the team that could have been iced ten years ago if some of those kids drafted weren't ridden hard and put away wet by Milbury's whims, I couldn't blame someone approaching the trade market like high-stakes poker rather than a free-for-all at a souq on bath salts.

It's just one guy's opinion, but if I had my choice between getting rid of Snow and keeping Wang or the other way around, the timing's not right for getting rid of Snow. When Wang first came in, he wanted to make waves, and did. Now, he's 11 years older, supposedly losing all sorts of cash and has become wicked conservative with spending. Snow's approach of fostering the youth works with this much better than Milbury's approach and if a new owner ever stepped in at some point, at least whatever new GM to take the role after the inevitable housecleaning would have some chips in his hands when he sat down at the poker table. Love him or hate him, that comes from Snow, and there's a lot more to look forward to now with Tavares & Company than there was with Palffy, Czerkawski, Smolinski and the "Fab Four" defensemen that Milbury systematically ruined psychologically. As much as it pains me to admit it, the high hopes we all had for a blueline of Jonsson, Berard, McCabe and LaChance obviously didn't pan out - Jonsson is already taking a break from coaching supposedly, LaChance is a scout, McCabe is retired and Berard's injury was an unfortunate occurrence.

As for Martin (to get back on topic), I feel that what we're seeing here is another player tapped to be part of the core. Tavares, Moulson, Okposo & Grabner were the first to get that treatment, and dare I say Carkner (only because he's big, mean and a statistical oddity), and obviously Hamonic comes soon and whomever out of Bailey, Cizikas, Ullstrom, etc. makes themselves taller trees in this forest of prospects/projects. Spaces are being filled, and soon enough once more of these kids mature and there's less spaces on the top roster than skaters to fill them, deals will likely be done. In a perfect world they'd be done with a new GM taking over, Snow moving to director of hockey operation (say what you want, he's been as I believe 'Ol' Time Hockey' one said, a "good soldier") a new coach and best of all, a new owner willing to provide the sort of NHL-standard ownership (isn't THAT phrase odd right now....) that a team striving for success needs.

Even though much of the firepower isn't even of legal drinking age, tomorrow's Islanders (sans lockout....) easily trump yesterday's - the only exception being Mike Peca's knee, and that series is about as close as it gets.

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09-19-2012, 09:55 PM
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Piecemeal roster determined by UFA acquisitions or one-year deals with little to no chance of getting within sniffing distance of the cup, or a few crap years, a mountain of patience and the strong likelihood of a strong team in the event we ever see the NHL end this lockout?

When you want something bad enough, getting it "right now" is even a step too late, but ownership, league perception and the arena situation are far worse issues with this team than general management, IMO.

That being said, IF the hockey season started on time, this isn't quite the stage in a rebuild I'd start swapping pieces. Considering the team that could have been iced ten years ago if some of those kids drafted weren't ridden hard and put away wet by Milbury's whims, I couldn't blame someone approaching the trade market like high-stakes poker rather than a free-for-all at a souq on bath salts.

It's just one guy's opinion, but if I had my choice between getting rid of Snow and keeping Wang or the other way around, the timing's not right for getting rid of Snow. When Wang first came in, he wanted to make waves, and did. Now, he's 11 years older, supposedly losing all sorts of cash and has become wicked conservative with spending. Snow's approach of fostering the youth works with this much better than Milbury's approach and if a new owner ever stepped in at some point, at least whatever new GM to take the role after the inevitable housecleaning would have some chips in his hands when he sat down at the poker table. Love him or hate him, that comes from Snow, and there's a lot more to look forward to now with Tavares & Company than there was with Palffy, Czerkawski, Smolinski and the "Fab Four" defensemen that Milbury systematically ruined psychologically. As much as it pains me to admit it, the high hopes we all had for a blueline of Jonsson, Berard, McCabe and LaChance obviously didn't pan out - Jonsson is already taking a break from coaching supposedly, LaChance is a scout, McCabe is retired and Berard's injury was an unfortunate occurrence.

As for Martin (to get back on topic), I feel that what we're seeing here is another player tapped to be part of the core. Tavares, Moulson, Okposo & Grabner were the first to get that treatment, and dare I say Carkner (only because he's big, mean and a statistical oddity), and obviously Hamonic comes soon and whomever out of Bailey, Cizikas, Ullstrom, etc. makes themselves taller trees in this forest of prospects/projects. Spaces are being filled, and soon enough once more of these kids mature and there's less spaces on the top roster than skaters to fill them, deals will likely be done. In a perfect world they'd be done with a new GM taking over, Snow moving to director of hockey operation (say what you want, he's been as I believe 'Ol' Time Hockey' one said, a "good soldier") a new coach and best of all, a new owner willing to provide the sort of NHL-standard ownership (isn't THAT phrase odd right now....) that a team striving for success needs.

Even though much of the firepower isn't even of legal drinking age, tomorrow's Islanders (sans lockout....) easily trump yesterday's - the only exception being Mike Peca's knee, and that series is about as close as it gets.
I agree. I think Martin is a really good complimentary player to be a part of a core.

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09-19-2012, 10:19 PM
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I agree. I think Martin is a really good complimentary player to be a part of a core.
Totally, and the good thing is that there will be several more. That doesn't clear anyone of blame for the current state of affairs as every prospect is clenched so tightly to the extent they're almost 'doted' over by the front office, but they're maturing investments.

Trade Kiril Kabanov today and he's only worth a 3rd liner until an organization sees to his growth and assists it. Give him two years and he could be a poor man's Radulov, without the predilection to go home back to Russia. Cizikas reminds me of Peca, Bailey's OHL play reminds me of Brind'Amour......there are so many good players under contract here. The good news is that I see the rebuild working; the bad news is it's only so far resulted in a few players going beast mode (91, 3/36, 26 & 17) and we have to wait for others to rise to the occasion before we know which ones are properly expendable and can be traded for others that fit the bit.

I'm more ticked off at the league and the PA for this lockout, then I get ticked off at Wang for investing in a horrible GM and making an "okay" GM work on a threadbare budget, and THEN I'm ticked off with that GM's inability to ice a better team. I don't disagree with the rage; just that the only components in the Islanders' organization that give us things to look forward to other than Frans Nielsen are, oddly enough, acquired by Garth Snow. It may take a new GM to swap certain pieces and redesign the team, but the last time the Islanders were a trade or two away from that redesign, there were 4 Stanley Cups worth of blood on the end of that sword. If the Isles had just a few more ready-to-trade players/prospects, I'd say get Bobby Ryan here yesterday and give the Atlantic Division some pain, but holding on to what's here a little longer can arguably make a very devastating roster - one that lives from the tenacity of it's prospects hoping to join it.....making more kids more attractive trade pieces and essentially creating the kind of self-sustaining engine that Detroit has been for years.

I'd like to see Martin improve his offense. Actually, what I'd *really* like to see is the Islanders commission "The Dungeon" to handle ALL prospects and 'tweeners. Playing in Bridgeport? You go to The Dungeon. Coaches can't tell whether you're a #2 LW or a #3 center? You go to The Dungeon. You are any Islanders prospect NOT named JT? PICK UP YOUR SKATES AND GO TO THE DUNGEON.

You could have a team of Andy Hilberts and if they had JT's training and drive, I'm pretty sure they could end a season near-.500. The right leader, goalies and supporting cast are falling into place. More than anything, they need to be invested in so they stay happy and loyal.


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09-20-2012, 05:13 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Caustic Acrostic View Post
Even though much of the firepower isn't even of legal drinking age, tomorrow's Islanders (sans lockout....) easily trump yesterday's - the only exception being Mike Peca's knee, and that series is about as close as it gets.
Yep, I'd even go so far as to say the loss of Jonsson in that series was bigger. Losing Peca AND Jonsson was the nail in the coffin.

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09-20-2012, 05:49 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
-Parenteau and Moulson were good pickups. But let's be honest-the only reason why we got them was because no other team would touch them with a 10-foot pole. They turned out to be good signings. Then again Snow just let PAP go (who signed a reasonable deal in Colorado). So I'm not sure how much credit I give him on PAP.
You're not gonna find many agreeing with you on this one. Both had other NHL-related options (albeit, no sure-thing NHL job), but Moulson and Parenteau primarily came here because of the opportunity they saw on Long Island. In hindsight, rightly so. Moulson signed a two-way contract and Parenteau was here on a "NHL or off to Europe" deal. Furthermore, Moulson had a link to JT and Parenteau's agent was also brokering other deals with the Islanders (I believe he was the same agent as Jurcina, Eaton or both), i.e. Snow and this agent have a good rapport.

One look at the AHL work these two did tells me that a number of other NHL teams would have added either of them on two-way contracts. That being the case, why not go where the opportunity seems to be the greatest.

These signings have to come under the guise of being 'astute', especially in light of the results to date.

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-Grabner's still a question mark. A $3million hit over the next 4 years isn't a good contract for him. I think what we safe last year is what we're going to get from him. And yes for the record I said that after his first year as an Islander. He has legs-and that's about it. Ultimately that doesn't lead to somebody being worthy of being locked up on a 5-year deal, with a $3million hit-that's backloaded.
Although the money invested isn't 'hurting' the Isles, I agree with your analysis. He could go either way at this point.

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-Eventually the team (aka-Snow) has to get out of the rebuilding mindset. There comes a time when it's time to take the next step. Most people expected that to have happened by this point. Other teams that have been rebuilding as long as we have are showing signs of improve. If the Isles were showing improvement-I would agree with you 100%. But unfortunately another bottom-5 finish is not improvement.
Whereas I had hoped for more, the offers to the Martins, Erhoffs and Kovalchuks of the world would indicate that corresponding attempts have been made, with the moves for Wisniewski (didn't lead anywhere) and Visnovsky (will just have to see) also being respectable attempts to up the profile.

Of course, two more bonafide top 6 forwards and one more top 4 Dman could have taken this team a LONG way the past few years. Attempts at gaining them were hardly executed.

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-Also the we haven't been a bad team since 2009, we were also bad in 2008, and mediocre in 2008 (yes making the playoffs as the 8th seeded team, aka-the average finish in the conference the last day of the season makes you a mediocre team). Just because the rebuild started in 2009, doesn't mean we weren't bad before then, or that that's not Snow's fault.
Well, during the Coach Nolan period, we were average. We were really, really average. Actually, even the last two Peca years, our Isles were really average. All those #15 picks in the early 00s document that. Then again, we had a number of bonafide NHLers who did layman's work, but the guys who were here to carry the load couldn't. Not regularly in any case. Yashin was the prime example thereof. Still, the teams boasted a lot more 'proven' depth than anything we've seen in recent years and yes, there's a difference between constantly finishing 15th/16th and 24th/25th, largely attributed to the differences in depth and experience.

Of course, until last season, the Snow period had been marked by an extraordinary amount of injuries.

Basically, once the team cut ties with Yashin, Kozlov, Poti, Blake, etc. and filled them with the Guerins and Fedetenkos of the world, that's when the phase of great crappiness set in. One season later, the 'rebuild' was officially in swing.

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09-20-2012, 06:34 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
You can say that it made finding Moulon/PAP more remarkable...or it could be lucky. Signing a player to a VERY low-risk contract, when nobody else wants them is easy. It's not something to pat yourself on the back about. He signed two VERY fringe NHL players that panned out.

Excuses. Snow's job is to ice a good team. While those things certainly don't help him, and absolutely do hurt him. It's his job. Period. MM had the same exact disadvantages, and the same people who loved ripping into him, and giving every excuse in the book for Snow. If Snow's last name was Milbury-he'd be booed out of town.
Yeah, so all these low risks players that people try and don't pan out are NUMEROUS. It is very rare that a player like that blossoms. Guess what, happened twice already and some may even argue Grabner so you are looking at 3 times now in his tenure finding a diamond in the rough. Once luck, twice maybe but 3 times. That's just an uncanny ability to find talent.

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09-20-2012, 04:53 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
You're not gonna find many agreeing with you on this one. Both had other NHL-related options (albeit, no sure-thing NHL job), but Moulson and Parenteau primarily came here because of the opportunity they saw on Long Island. In hindsight, rightly so. Moulson signed a two-way contract and Parenteau was here on a "NHL or off to Europe" deal. Furthermore, Moulson had a link to JT and Parenteau's agent was also brokering other deals with the Islanders (I believe he was the same agent as Jurcina, Eaton or both), i.e. Snow and this agent have a good rapport.

One look at the AHL work these two did tells me that a number of other NHL teams would have added either of them on two-way contracts. That being the case, why not go where the opportunity seems to be the greatest.
-In the same paragraph you say that PAP had "other NHL options", then go on to say that he was on the Isles on a "NHL or off to Europe". If it was on the Isles or off to Europe-he didn't have any other NHL options.

-AHL stats do NOT always translate to the NHL. Teams know that. There are tons of players who have lit up the AHL-and never amount to a single thing in the NHL. Krog was dominating the AHL a few short years ago.

-I don't care how many people agree with me. I said that Tambo would amount to nothing (even though he had very good AHL stats), said that Nilsson would amount to nothing (same), and that the Isles were MUCH worse off heading into 08 than the were following the 07 playoff series. The overwhelming majority of posters on here didn't agree with me. It doesn't mean a thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Well, during the Coach Nolan period, we were average. We were really, really average. Actually, even the last two Peca years, our Isles were really average. All those #15 picks in the early 00s document that. Then again, we had a number of bonafide NHLers who did layman's work, but the guys who were here to carry the load couldn't. Not regularly in any case. Yashin was the prime example thereof. Still, the teams boasted a lot more 'proven' depth than anything we've seen in recent years and yes, there's a difference between constantly finishing 15th/16th and 24th/25th, largely attributed to the differences in depth and experience.
-I absolutely agree 100% they were average under Nolan and the 2nd years w/Peca.

-Yashin didn't "carry the load"? He was consistently our top scoring player. Yashin may have had a very bad contract, and a slow skater (people assume he should be fast because he's Russian); but he certainly was our best forward for years. Whether people want to acknowledge that or not.

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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Of course, until last season, the Snow period had been marked by an extraordinary amount of injuries.
Injuries are an excuse. Every team deals with injuries. Good, deep, teams play through them-poor teams don't. It's the nature of the game. I think the injury argument loses a lot of ground when last year the Isles had a pretty healthy seasons-and they STILL finished bottom 5. Injuries was never the problem-the roster is.

People keep making excuse, after excuse, after excuse. The reality is this team isn't good. Period. Outside of a few bright spots (which every team has), this team is another bottom 5 finish. And yes it IS the GM's responsibility to ice a winning team. It doesn't matter what obstacles he faces-he knew about all of them before signing up for the job. His job is work through the obstacles-NOT use them as excuses for icing lackluster teams every single year.

I've said it plenty of times, and I'll say it again: if MM was still the GM Isles fans would all be calling for his head (and rightfully so).

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09-21-2012, 06:34 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
-In the same paragraph you say that PAP had "other NHL options", then go on to say that he was on the Isles on a "NHL or off to Europe". If it was on the Isles or off to Europe-he didn't have any other NHL options.
Actually, there's no contradiction here. There might have been, had I written "Isles or off to Europe". But I didn't. I.e. no matter what team he'd have signed with, he was at that "NHL or off to Europe" point in his career.

No-one needs to fool themselves for a minute. Both Moulson and Parenteau would have gotten no less or more than a two-way contract from some other NHL club. Do you truly disagree? It's not just the AHL stats. Alone Moulson's 07-08 NHL showing and Parenteau's 09-10 NHL showing would have ensured that circumstance. The Rangers for one were ready to resign Parenteau to another two-way contract, if I remember correctly, but he knew he'd have a much longer shot at the NHL than he would with the Isles.

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-I don't care how many people agree with me. I said that Tambo would amount to nothing (even though he had very good AHL stats), said that Nilsson would amount to nothing (same), and that the Isles were MUCH worse off heading into 08 than the were following the 07 playoff series. The overwhelming majority of posters on here didn't agree with me. It doesn't mean a thing.
This type of self-aggrandizing doesn't do a thing for someone's argument, especially when we're not talking about the failures of Tambo and Nilsson, but rather the successes of the Snow signings Moulson and Parenteau.

To state "the only reason why we got them was because no other team would touch them with a 10-foot pole" is, with the evidence at hand, essentially and thoroughly fallible. I don't know what a person could viably base that statement on?

Quote:
-Yashin didn't "carry the load"? He was consistently our top scoring player. Yashin may have had a very bad contract, and a slow skater (people assume he should be fast because he's Russian); but he certainly was our best forward for years. Whether people want to acknowledge that or not.
I acknowledge that. Happily. I also think Yashin has gotten a bum deal in fans' eyes based on the size and length of his contract. He didn't give it to himself. On the other hand, this team brought him in to be the 80-90 point version of Yashin we saw in Ottawa. He never was. His first season of 75 points in 78 games was almost there, but after that, he dropped down to that roughly .75 PPG level - and was still usually the top scorer. It wasn't enough. We weren't able to win. He didn't carry the load to the degree that this team needed him to do and had acquired him to do.

Disappointment could not be avoided one way or the other.

My biggest surprise with respect to Yashin? That no-one else signed him after we cut ties. Ouch!

Quote:
Injuries are an excuse. Every team deals with injuries. Good, deep, teams play through them-poor teams don't. It's the nature of the game. I think the injury argument loses a lot of ground when last year the Isles had a pretty healthy seasons-and they STILL finished bottom 5. Injuries was never the problem-the roster is.
Not saying we were a loser solely because of injuries. That would be an excuse. Having over 515 man games lost to injury while other teams have between 250-350 is nonetheless a considerable difference and it can't be denied as having played a role in our lousy location in the standings, especially considering we topped the league in that department 3 of 4 years.

This said, as you wrote, that is why teams with any desire to compete - which we know is not the case with the Isles at the time being - will prepare for injury scenarios with the proper depth.

This has not been the case, for whatever reason, be it a mandate from above or simply incompetence on Snow's behalf.

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People keep making excuse, after excuse, after excuse. The reality is this team isn't good. Period. Outside of a few bright spots (which every team has), this team is another bottom 5 finish.
Theoretically, no-one here should think there was enough done on paper this summer to finish all that much better than was the case last season.

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And yes it IS the GM's responsibility to ice a winning team.
Well, time to become another team's fan, because that's not the goal of things in Islanderville.

This team will be a playoff team with any shot in heck if there should be some strange combination of special chemistry, inner development, chance, and the proper cosmic alignment of the heavens.

But when did all THAT become the topic of the Matt Martin signing thread?

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09-21-2012, 12:55 PM
  #71
Richie Daggers Crime
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
-Yashin didn't "carry the load"? He was consistently our top scoring player. Yashin may have had a very bad contract, and a slow skater (people assume he should be fast because he's Russian); but he certainly was our best forward for years. Whether people want to acknowledge that or not.
In a town of blind people, the one eyed man is mayor.

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Old
09-22-2012, 01:34 AM
  #72
OlTimeHockey
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In a town of blind people, the one eyed man is mayor.
to be fair.....we NEVER got that "winger for Yashin" all those years (unless you count Cliff Ronning, a solid pickup for line 3 I'll tell you!). If Wang would have just gotten the hint Gutkowski had laid out - that firing Milbury was step One in resurrecting the franchise, not making Milbury the be all end all sage - he could have had someone qualified to find talent and make a first line rather than throwing Isbister in and seeing if it'd work, throwing Oleg, Miller, Chow, anything that he had.

So....we saw Yashin hit 70 points. And never meet his first year totals. An exercise in what could have been......is now just a debate over how awful things were because Yashin didn't carry the entire team on his back. (he never was that type of player to begin with, but hey, he should have been)

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09-22-2012, 06:15 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Caustic Acrostic View Post
I'd like to see Martin improve his offense. Actually, what I'd *really* like to see is the Islanders commission "The Dungeon" to handle ALL prospects and 'tweeners. Playing in Bridgeport? You go to The Dungeon. Coaches can't tell whether you're a #2 LW or a #3 center? You go to The Dungeon. You are any Islanders prospect NOT named JT? PICK UP YOUR SKATES AND GO TO THE DUNGEON.
LOL! If I was eating I'd have spit my food out.

On the Martin contract this is a pretty amazing deal. Snow did good. If only he could go spend some bling on real UFA help, or an expensive vet under contract via trade.

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