HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Hockey Talk by Country > Eastern Europe
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Eastern Europe Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Kazakhstan

Latvian hockey on the rise?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-20-2012, 04:27 PM
  #26
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Any chance Bukarts makes the jump to NA next year? If he's not showing anything right now he'd be best served by giving the CHL a try and getting used to the NA game, if the NHL is his ultimate goal. If not he could stagnate like his brother.
he is in 1st year of his 3y deal with Dinamo Riga.

vorky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-20-2012, 05:46 PM
  #27
smitty10
Registered User
 
smitty10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
he is in 1st year of his 3y deal with Dinamo Riga.
That's unfortunate. From what I hear he's quite the talent, but I guess if he's happy at home that's where he'll stay.

smitty10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-20-2012, 06:04 PM
  #28
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
That's unfortunate. From what I hear he's quite the talent, but I guess if he's happy at home that's where he'll stay.
and? Kuznetsov is also talent and he did not need CHL to develop

vorky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2012, 08:29 AM
  #29
Justinov
Registered User
 
Justinov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Country: Denmark
Posts: 3,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
As much as I hate Tambijevs (only as a coach), give him a break, it's no about winning at this stage. No one at the end of current kids career will remember because they went "deep in the MHL playoffs that year", right? I'd take losses in all 50+ games if only I could ensure that one more extra kid becomes a really good player for us in the future. Just like majority of regulars on SC, I'd of course would prefer Belavskis, but when given talant (like U18 WC) Tambijevs delivers, so I'm not sure he for sure is destroying something at HK Riga currently. That said I wouldn't be said if he was given a license to walk. And the job given to someone with a little bit of experience in any coaching.

As for Justinov's idea of keeping Dinamo foreigners here and morphing them into coaches, it's basically a pipe dream. Not every great player can become a great coach. Still Latvia is no Denmark, I can't remember one foreigner in any sports who after retiring stayed here. Maybe if Hartigan was kept for some years, it could of happened, but currently? I don't think so. (DR should go after Schastlivy , him maybe we could keep here for obvious reasons)
Yeah Denmark has the advantage if being a good country to settle, marry and have kids. But a foreign player that gets married with a latvian might have the idea to settle. The reason it hasn't happened in the past, doesn't necessarily mean it wont happen in the future. Off course living standards means a lot, but Latvia should hopefully become more and more like other nordic countries with time. I dont think its totally impossible for a danish, norwegian, swedish or finnish sportsstar to settle and become a coach.
Off course you are right that not all players can become good coaches, but the more players that settle, the more chance that some good coaches will be able to give new ideas and positively affect youth training. Denmark have had canadians, americans, russians, latvian, finnish and swedish players where some stayed after career. Also some coaches might be good for U18 elite training and some will be good for very young U13 players to develope.
NB: Tambijevs is an ex-danish league player (player of the year 1995-96), but he didn't stay in Denmark though.

Justinov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2012, 08:45 AM
  #30
Justinov
Registered User
 
Justinov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Country: Denmark
Posts: 3,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Wow,thats great,sometimes value of a good coach is underestimated,but for hockey to frow you need good coaches.
For example i can give you a negative example from Latvian hockey-Tambijevs coach of HK rīga,guy gets praised here because of his earlier successes,altough he didnt do anything it just so happend he got a very talented bunch by doing nothing (Jevpalovs,Indrašis,R.Lipsbergs) NOW when most teams leaders are either in Dinamo Rīga (Indrašis,btw great start for him 5 games 2+2) or in CHL,NOW when they are gone,he cant even use our most valuable 16 year old properly Bukarts,He was 2nd in scoring in HK rīga but then great genius Tambijevs decided to put him on 4th line ofcourse now he can`t produce when he gets only few minutes on ice.
It's the great old coach dilemma. Whether you should give new players chances to develope, or you are under pressure to maximise your results in the short run, where you want to use veterans you know are stable. It's probably how much the coach are willing to gamble on the young talented players (that often are very uneven in their performances). Maybe the Latvian league is just a bit too good to just use teenage players??? The danish league has really plummeted in class after the 2007 crises, but that means that tons of very young players get the chance to play against adults. Oliver Bjørkstrand playing for Herning as 16, with Thomas Spelling 17 and Patrick Bjørkstrand 18 last year. Before 2007 that would have been impossible with all that good foreign import that could be afforded back then.
It could otherwise just be a discipline or clash of personality thing between Tambijevs and Bukarts? It's hard to know as a fan why players sometimes are kept from a team -> if you as a coach wants a disciplined defensive hockey (especially if you have bad results and are under pressure to get points) it can be very hard for a teenager to fit in that system. If you play offensive creative hockey young players can often flourish.
So what are Tambijevs playing style aspirations for HK Riga, and has the playing style changed after the loss of his talented players (like Indrasis)??

Justinov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2012, 10:20 AM
  #31
BalticWarrior
Registered User
 
BalticWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 4,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinov View Post
It's the great old coach dilemma. Whether you should give new players chances to develope, or you are under pressure to maximise your results in the short run, where you want to use veterans you know are stable. It's probably how much the coach are willing to gamble on the young talented players (that often are very uneven in their performances). Maybe the Latvian league is just a bit too good to just use teenage players??? The danish league has really plummeted in class after the 2007 crises, but that means that tons of very young players get the chance to play against adults. Oliver Bjørkstrand playing for Herning as 16, with Thomas Spelling 17 and Patrick Bjørkstrand 18 last year. Before 2007 that would have been impossible with all that good foreign import that could be afforded back then.
It could otherwise just be a discipline or clash of personality thing between Tambijevs and Bukarts? It's hard to know as a fan why players sometimes are kept from a team -> if you as a coach wants a disciplined defensive hockey (especially if you have bad results and are under pressure to get points) it can be very hard for a teenager to fit in that system. If you play offensive creative hockey young players can often flourish.
So what are Tambijevs playing style aspirations for HK Riga, and has the playing style changed after the loss of his talented players (like Indrasis)??
Tambijevs style is the same old Soviet style hockey,and no, playing style has not changed at all,its just that there are almost no good players left except for Bukarts,Upītis un Golovkovs (btw look out for him,he could be the next star for Dinamo Rīga)
We really need someone like Nolan for HK rīga because having 2 north american type coaches for both mens team and Dinamo rīga but still keeping soviet style coach for youth team,it just doesnt mix.

BalticWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2012, 05:54 AM
  #32
Justinov
Registered User
 
Justinov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Country: Denmark
Posts: 3,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Tambijevs style is the same old Soviet style hockey,and no, playing style has not changed at all,its just that there are almost no good players left except for Bukarts,Upītis un Golovkovs (btw look out for him,he could be the next star for Dinamo Rīga)
We really need someone like Nolan for HK rīga because having 2 north american type coaches for both mens team and Dinamo rīga but still keeping soviet style coach for youth team,it just doesnt mix.
Yeah you might be onto something there. We have talked before about coaching need to be in tune with local culture and maybe hard disciplined sovjet style simply can destruct development for certain young players. Because you have so many choices in sports these days, if it doesn't include fun it can demotivate them. Todays young have choices, which you didn't really have in the sovjet system.
Off course you need some disclipline but in youth developement maybe creativity and playfullness build the basis of talent. You can always train the physical and disciplined part later...as when danish league prospects go to Sweden or North America to learn these things.
Tambijevs use a system that worked very well for him and his generation, but it might be totally out of tune with (some) young latvians today.

Justinov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2012, 06:56 AM
  #33
BalticWarrior
Registered User
 
BalticWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 4,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinov View Post
Yeah you might be onto something there. We have talked before about coaching need to be in tune with local culture and maybe hard disciplined sovjet style simply can destruct development for certain young players. Because you have so many choices in sports these days, if it doesn't include fun it can demotivate them. Todays young have choices, which you didn't really have in the sovjet system.
Off course you need some disclipline but in youth developement maybe creativity and playfullness build the basis of talent. You can always train the physical and disciplined part later...as when danish league prospects go to Sweden or North America to learn these things.
Tambijevs use a system that worked very well for him and his generation, but it might be totally out of tune with (some) young latvians today.
Certainly,ofcourse season has barely started,but still i needed to point this out,that imo,Tambijevs doesnt fit Dinamo Riga organzation and Latvian hockey in genaral.
Also sidenote about Rihards Bukarts- I think he will bounce back soon,but ofcourse it will take some help from tambijevs, i really hope gets promoted back to first line,its vital for young talent to be playing tons of minutes on the ice,to develop the offensive game.

BalticWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2012, 03:37 PM
  #34
wings5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,367
vCash: 500
With hockey being the number one sport in the country I expected more good large prospects from this country just like in Lithuania for basketball. However the Wjc teams they send are usually very small. Is average height in Latvia not something like 178 cm?

wings5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2012, 03:59 PM
  #35
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wings5 View Post
With hockey being the number one sport in the country I expected more good large prospects from this country just like in Lithuania for basketball. However the Wjc teams they send are usually very small. Is average height in Latvia not something like 178 cm?
I am not sure if it is fair to compare Latvia/hockey to Lithuania/basketball

vorky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2012, 04:16 PM
  #36
wings5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I am not sure if it is fair to compare Latvia/hockey to Lithuania/basketball
Certainly not in terms of results and success although Latvia is starting to produce more talent. Speaking more in terms of popularity they should be producing larger skilled forwards. Hopefully Girgonsons can start the trend.

wings5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2012, 09:44 PM
  #37
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,785
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
Quote:
Originally Posted by wings5 View Post
With hockey being the number one sport in the country I expected more good large prospects from this country just like in Lithuania for basketball. However the Wjc teams they send are usually very small. Is average height in Latvia not something like 178 cm?
Most of our big kids are, ehm, playing basketball? Although hockey is our most loved sport there is only ~15 arenas in whole country, so it's only natural that all the tall kids are turned into basketball players, when there's a arena for it in every village.

ozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2012, 10:39 PM
  #38
wings5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Most of our big kids are, ehm, playing basketball? Although hockey is our most loved sport there is only ~15 arenas in whole country, so it's only natural that all the tall kids are turned into basketball players, when there's a arena for it in every village.
How popular is basketball in the country btw does it have a chance at challenging hockey anytime soon? I know they knocked off their rivals Lithuania in Fiba u-20 this summer.

wings5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 02:19 AM
  #39
BalticWarrior
Registered User
 
BalticWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 4,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wings5 View Post
How popular is basketball in the country btw does it have a chance at challenging hockey anytime soon? I know they knocked off their rivals Lithuania in Fiba u-20 this summer.
It`s 2nd most popular sport,but will NEVER top hockey.

BalticWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 03:18 AM
  #40
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,785
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
It`s 2nd most popular sport,but will NEVER top hockey.
I guess you aren't a basketball fan or there's a something else why you can't see things straight, but one can easily say that basketball is not even 1b sports game, but actually the number one (and then some orientation sports fan would have some arguments ). Just look how many kids teams there are in LJBL and remember ASK Riga from few years back, or the times when our NT wasn't known for it's parties?

I understand, hockey is sacred to every Latvian as a fan because we can see how empty the streets gets during every spring WC, but when it comes down to actual numbers playing the sports, basketball crushes hockey on a level it's not even funny. It is what it is.

ozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 03:24 AM
  #41
BalticWarrior
Registered User
 
BalticWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 4,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
I guess you aren't a basketball fan or there's a something else why you can't see things straight, but one can easily say that basketball is not even 1b sports game, but actually the number one (and then some orientation sports fan would have some arguments ). Just look how many kids teams there are in LJBL and remember ASK Riga from few years back, or the times when our NT wasn't known for it's parties?

I understand, hockey is sacred to every Latvian as a fan because we can see how empty the streets gets during every spring WC, but when it comes down to actual numbers playing the sports, basketball crushes hockey on a level it's not even funny. It is what it is.
Its NOT what we are discussing we ARE discussing POPULARITY! what gets more media attention,hype and all that, Latvian basketball league or NBA or Dinamo Rīga making play-offs,latvian national team getting in 1/4 wc?hell latvian national team just making Olympics gets millions of times more hype and attention than any basketball event in Latvia and thats a FACT.

BalticWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 03:31 AM
  #42
BalticWarrior
Registered User
 
BalticWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 4,643
vCash: 500
If i`m not mistaken there are more people in canada playing soccer than playing hockey,but does that make soccer "canadas #1 game?" NO!

BalticWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 03:47 AM
  #43
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,785
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
So "playing the sport" =/ popularity. Mhm ok.

Still I see what you are saying, but even then you have already forgotten how popular basketball really was 10 years ago.

ozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 03:52 AM
  #44
BalticWarrior
Registered User
 
BalticWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 4,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
So "playing the sport" =/ popularity. Mhm ok.

Still I see what you are saying, but even then you have already forgotten how popular basketball really was 10 years ago.
Please read my post above.

BalticWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 04:05 AM
  #45
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,785
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
And did you read my post? Everything always black or white for you, isn't it?

ozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 07:07 AM
  #46
Justinov
Registered User
 
Justinov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Country: Denmark
Posts: 3,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Most of our big kids are, ehm, playing basketball? Although hockey is our most loved sport there is only ~15 arenas in whole country, so it's only natural that all the tall kids are turned into basketball players, when there's a arena for it in every village.
That would actually make for a very interesting youth-sport-study. Is there a choice based on the height between the leading sports in Latvia? Do big guys go to basketball instead? Kids that end up being over 1.95 as adults are normally tallest in their class all through childhood, so maybe they are encouraged more for basketball from an early age by people around them?
Average height for a latvian national hockey team of 1.78 I see above. Maybe its because hockey in Latvia interests from the technical aspect of the game more than the physical?
Most of the danish NHL players are on the small side as well, compared with our handball players -> To make it in handball you often have to be around 1.90 and 90 kg, though as a wing you can be 1.80 and 80 kg. Our star player Mikkel Hansen is 1.96 and 98 kg. So it also seems here that hockey might be chosen more for the technical aspect and big guys play handball (or basketball if they are afraid of body contact and have weak power in their shooting arms ).
The danish handballteam at the olympics...scroll down to the bottom and see the height (sadly no weight in this overview):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark..._handball_team
We could need more big men in our hockey players, especially defenders with bulk.

So could be fun to see a comparison between Latvias hockey team and their basketball team!

So if Girgensons can set a trend, it could buff up latvian hockey for the future.

Justinov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 07:22 AM
  #47
BalticWarrior
Registered User
 
BalticWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 4,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinov View Post
That would actually make for a very interesting youth-sport-study. Is there a choice based on the height between the leading sports in Latvia? Do big guys go to basketball instead? Kids that end up being over 1.95 as adults are normally tallest in their class all through childhood, so maybe they are encouraged more for basketball from an early age by people around them?
Average height for a latvian national hockey team of 1.78 I see above. Maybe its because hockey in Latvia interests from the technical aspect of the game more than the physical?
Most of the danish NHL players are on the small side as well, compared with our handball players -> To make it in handball you often have to be around 1.90 and 90 kg, though as a wing you can be 1.80 and 80 kg. Our star player Mikkel Hansen is 1.96 and 98 kg. So it also seems here that hockey might be chosen more for the technical aspect and big guys play handball (or basketball if they are afraid of body contact and have weak power in their shooting arms ).
The danish handballteam at the olympics...scroll down to the bottom and see the height (sadly no weight in this overview):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark..._handball_team
We could need more big men in our hockey players, especially defenders with bulk.

So could be fun to see a comparison between Latvias hockey team and their basketball team!

So if Girgensons can set a trend, it could buff up latvian hockey for the future.
Well the thing about our WJC teams beeing 1 78 cm avarege is due to Tambijevs beeing the coach of both u-20 and u-18( you already know my dislike against him,so this obviously doesnt help) he would rather choose someone with tiny bit more skill than a guy whos big and buff,the "good ol`" soviet style thinking.

BalticWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 07:25 AM
  #48
BalticWarrior
Registered User
 
BalticWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 4,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinov View Post
That would actually make for a very interesting youth-sport-study. Is there a choice based on the height between the leading sports in Latvia? Do big guys go to basketball instead? Kids that end up being over 1.95 as adults are normally tallest in their class all through childhood, so maybe they are encouraged more for basketball from an early age by people around them?
Average height for a latvian national hockey team of 1.78 I see above. Maybe its because hockey in Latvia interests from the technical aspect of the game more than the physical?
Most of the danish NHL players are on the small side as well, compared with our handball players -> To make it in handball you often have to be around 1.90 and 90 kg, though as a wing you can be 1.80 and 80 kg. Our star player Mikkel Hansen is 1.96 and 98 kg. So it also seems here that hockey might be chosen more for the technical aspect and big guys play handball (or basketball if they are afraid of body contact and have weak power in their shooting arms ).
The danish handballteam at the olympics...scroll down to the bottom and see the height (sadly no weight in this overview):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark..._handball_team
We could need more big men in our hockey players, especially defenders with bulk.

So could be fun to see a comparison between Latvias hockey team and their basketball team!

So if Girgensons can set a trend, it could buff up latvian hockey for the future.
This is definitely the case for Latvia too

BalticWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 07:29 AM
  #49
Justinov
Registered User
 
Justinov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Country: Denmark
Posts: 3,459
vCash: 500
About popularity it's offcourse a difference between popularity of choice of sport and popularity of media/number of fans. Some sports are popular as a professional sport with fans attached to clubs or individual sport stars and some are popular purely as recreation. If you see this top-10 of membership popularity by choice of sport from Denmark in 2003 you will be surprised to see gymnastics as second (purely recreational, we havent had a gymnastic star since the 1930's-1940's i think), while football, handball and badminton are leading pro-sports beside being recreational. Tennis is also very big but mostly recreational with very few danish tennis stars through time. Hockey only have a membership of 4.000 in comparison.

1. Football (292.973)
2. Gymnastics (148.384)
3. Handbold (134.782)
4. Badminton (128.297)
5. Svimming (122.924)
6. Golf (104.006)
7. Tennis (73.268)
8. Riding (72.856)
9. Sailing (55.351)
10. Shooting (46.999)

EDIT: Cycling is not on the list, though tons of people cycle everyday; but its for transport. So not many cyclist have membership in a club. Many people here cycle over 50 km to and from work every day and we even have bicycle couriers all over Copenhagen defying death the way they move around the traffic.


Last edited by Justinov: 09-23-2012 at 07:37 AM.
Justinov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 07:32 AM
  #50
Justinov
Registered User
 
Justinov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Country: Denmark
Posts: 3,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Well the thing about our WJC teams beeing 1 78 cm avarege is due to Tambijevs beeing the coach of both u-20 and u-18( you already know my dislike against him,so this obviously doesnt help) he would rather choose someone with tiny bit more skill than a guy whos big and buff,the "good ol`" soviet style thinking.
Which is OK for good technical forwards, but you need a defence that can withstand "monster"-forwards....Latvia and Denmark's achilles heal.

Justinov is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.