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Andrei Kostitsyn signs with Traktor Chelyabinsk (KHL)

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Old
09-22-2012, 11:46 AM
  #126
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09-22-2012, 12:03 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
You're comparing apples and oranges. They don't play the same roles at all... And he was comparing Kostitsyn to Bourque not Prust. You seriously need to brush up on hockey knowledge if you think Prust was brought in to replace Kostitsyn's role.
Read up the thread, Habsterix was responding to my assertion that the Habs' money would have been better spent on AK than on Prust.

Obviously the two do not play the same role, but I do think that AK's role is more valuable than Prust's, and that the Habs need a skilled player for the Plekanec line.

My post comparing ice time was to counter the argument that coaches are burdened by having "unmotivated individuals" on the team. While they may dislike it on a personal level, all of his coaches have recognized that Kostitsyn is often one of the best options to put on the ice, while all of Prust's coaches have limited his ice time.

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09-22-2012, 08:00 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
And yet, coaches have seen fit to give AK more ice time than Prust. As much as AK's inconsistency is frustrating, several coaches have decided that in the long run, his results make it worth giving him shifts. As much as coaches appreciate Prust's work ethic, several of them have decided he does not contribute enough to justify that extra ice time.

11-12
AK - 15:06 toi/g
BP - 11:56

10-11
AK - 15:53
BP - 13:48

09-10
AK - 15:59
BP - 7:35

08-09
AK - 15:35
BP - 7:27
How does this have anything to do with ice time?!? Are they playing the same role on a team? While not as skilled as Kostitsyn, Prust is an agitator who will go through a brick wall for his teammates, and he's much better defensively, as proven by his PK time (you didn't pull that ice time?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Read up the thread, Habsterix was responding to my assertion that the Habs' money would have been better spent on AK than on Prust.

Obviously the two do not play the same role, but I do think that AK's role is more valuable than Prust's, and that the Habs need a skilled player for the Plekanec line.

My post comparing ice time was to counter the argument that coaches are burdened by having "unmotivated individuals" on the team. While they may dislike it on a personal level, all of his coaches have recognized that Kostitsyn is often one of the best options to put on the ice, while all of Prust's coaches have limited his ice time.
This proves that you either don't understand roles on a team or that you're purposely ignoring that fact. I'm surprised that you didn't bring up AK's offensive production, just to throw bananas with those apples and oranges.

Because one has a bit less ice time doesn't make him less valuable and that's what you don't understand. The Habs needed grit, determination and toughness, as well as a constant effort more than they needed dipsy-doodling every 3 or 4 games.

Now read carefully... for the Habs, the money is better spent on Prust than on AK for two reasons:
  1. Team needs
  2. Rene Bourque, aka Kostitsyn's replacement

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09-23-2012, 01:10 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
How does this have anything to do with ice time?!? Are they playing the same role on a team? While not as skilled as Kostitsyn, Prust is an agitator who will go through a brick wall for his teammates, and he's much better defensively, as proven by his PK time (you didn't pull that ice time?).


This proves that you either don't understand roles on a team or that you're purposely ignoring that fact. I'm surprised that you didn't bring up AK's offensive production, just to throw bananas with those apples and oranges.

Because one has a bit less ice time doesn't make him less valuable and that's what you don't understand. The Habs needed grit, determination and toughness, as well as a constant effort more than they needed dipsy-doodling every 3 or 4 games.

Now read carefully... for the Habs, the money is better spent on Prust than on AK for two reasons:
  1. Team needs
  2. Rene Bourque, aka Kostitsyn's replacement
You missed the point of me posting ice time. I was responding to you calling Kostitsyn a player that "coach doesn't deserve" by showing who coaches have actually trusted.

I listed total TOI, including PK. I don't think the fact that a good portion of Prust's effectiveness is on the PK helps the Habs much (at least not 2.5mil much!) - we already have Plekanec, Gionta, Desharnais, Eller, Moen, White, Nokelainen and Gomez killing penalties.

Bourque is injured until December. Even when healthy, he's not as effective a player as AK. The team still needs a winger to play with Plekanec and Gionta. Prust and Moen can't fill that role (yes, roles go beyond determination and penalty killing) as well as Kostitsyn can.

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Old
09-23-2012, 01:43 AM
  #130
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his 1st khl goal, empty netter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW83w0qDvwc&feature=plcp

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:10 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
You missed the point of me posting ice time. I was responding to you calling Kostitsyn a player that "coach doesn't deserve" by showing who coaches have actually trusted.

I listed total TOI, including PK. I don't think the fact that a good portion of Prust's effectiveness is on the PK helps the Habs much (at least not 2.5mil much!) - we already have Plekanec, Gionta, Desharnais, Eller, Moen, White, Nokelainen and Gomez killing penalties.

Bourque is injured until December. Even when healthy, he's not as effective a player as AK. The team still needs a winger to play with Plekanec and Gionta. Prust and Moen can't fill that role (yes, roles go beyond determination and penalty killing) as well as Kostitsyn can.
Let me ask you something... is it remotely possible that instead of the "trusted" theory, that it could be because the Habs under the last few coaches were "offensively challenged", trailing from behind more often than not? Would he or a more reliable defensively player would have been used had the Habs played with the lead?

You thinking that AK is superior to Bourque is definitely up for debate as that's your opinion, which by the way I respect. Having said that, no need to say that I disagree. I put them on an even level. Both are somewhat physical and can put some decent numbers offensively. But both are terribly inconsistent with a reputation of lacking motivation, being hard to coach because they are high maintenance (constant motivation issues). When Bourque was signed, many including myself saw the writing on the wall for AK, as he had been replaced. The Habs threw the towell, deciding to go a different way. Whether Bourque is out until December would be relevant if his contract was up at the end of the season, but he still has a couple of years left.

As for Prust, in order to appreciate what he brings to the table, you'd have to first recognize that the Habs needed more toughness in their line-up, which you don't seem to do. Habs' fans were crying not wanting a "goon" on the team, most saying that they'd take a guy who can play hockey. Guess what? They got the best guy available! What else do you want? A 30 goals scorer who scraps? Hard to find and mostly, not available.

So yes, for the same dollars, Prust was the right decision, no ifs or buts about it.

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Old
10-04-2012, 09:37 PM
  #132
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So far looks like good deal for Andrei. 7 games 5 goals and 1 assist +3 rating. Last game he is the first star of the game if I understand correctly.
http://www.khl.ru/video/1876/45103/
In this kind of pace he will sign around 5mil - 3 year contract easily back in NHL if he will want to come back off course. A friend of mine says he even does interviews there lol

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10-04-2012, 09:49 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
So far looks like good deal for Andrei. 7 games 5 goals and 1 assist +3 rating. Last game he is the first star of the game if I understand correctly.
http://www.khl.ru/video/1876/45103/
In this kind of pace he will sign around 5mil - 3 year contract easily back in NHL if he will want to come back off course. A friend of mine says he even does interviews there lol
He never signed that high. His highest contract was 3.6 when he had 56 points.. Why would he sign for 5 millions.. Even with the market fluctuations

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10-04-2012, 10:02 PM
  #134
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Why wouldn't he if he will be PPG player in KHL? Most of top NHL-ers are aprox 1 PPG in KHL right now (not sure about it that what I was told).

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10-04-2012, 11:05 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
You missed the point of me posting ice time. I was responding to you calling Kostitsyn a player that "coach doesn't deserve" by showing who coaches have actually trusted.

I listed total TOI, including PK. I don't think the fact that a good portion of Prust's effectiveness is on the PK helps the Habs much (at least not 2.5mil much!) - we already have Plekanec, Gionta, Desharnais, Eller, Moen, White, Nokelainen and Gomez killing penalties.

Bourque is injured until December. Even when healthy, he's not as effective a player as AK. The team still needs a winger to play with Plekanec and Gionta. Prust and Moen can't fill that role (yes, roles go beyond determination and penalty killing) as well as Kostitsyn can.
A.Kost certainly is a 1st line player...
.
.
.
.
in the KHL

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Old
10-04-2012, 11:44 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Let me ask you something... is it remotely possible that instead of the "trusted" theory, that it could be because the Habs under the last few coaches were "offensively challenged", trailing from behind more often than not? Would he or a more reliable defensively player would have been used had the Habs played with the lead?

You thinking that AK is superior to Bourque is definitely up for debate as that's your opinion, which by the way I respect. Having said that, no need to say that I disagree. I put them on an even level. Both are somewhat physical and can put some decent numbers offensively. But both are terribly inconsistent with a reputation of lacking motivation, being hard to coach because they are high maintenance (constant motivation issues). When Bourque was signed, many including myself saw the writing on the wall for AK, as he had been replaced. The Habs threw the towell, deciding to go a different way. Whether Bourque is out until December would be relevant if his contract was up at the end of the season, but he still has a couple of years left.

As for Prust, in order to appreciate what he brings to the table, you'd have to first recognize that the Habs needed more toughness in their line-up, which you don't seem to do. Habs' fans were crying not wanting a "goon" on the team, most saying that they'd take a guy who can play hockey. Guess what? They got the best guy available! What else do you want? A 30 goals scorer who scraps? Hard to find and mostly, not available.

So yes, for the same dollars, Prust was the right decision, no ifs or buts about it.
Martin would try to get an early first period goal and then sit on the lead for the rest of the game, which he was successful at more often than not so I'm not sure where your assessment comes from and Cunneyworth was just a disaster and nothing needs to be discussed about him.

One of the big differences between Bourque and AK, is that AK at least seems to be a little bit engaged and cares about the team (even when he isn't producing), something seriously lacking in Bourque last season. If Bourque doesn't change his attitude under Thierrien, Bourque won't be here long, so I don't think the fact that Bourque has a couple of years left on his contract really matters.

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Old
10-05-2012, 01:04 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
So far looks like good deal for Andrei. 7 games 5 goals and 1 assist +3 rating. Last game he is the first star of the game if I understand correctly.
http://www.khl.ru/video/1876/45103/
In this kind of pace he will sign around 5mil - 3 year contract easily back in NHL if he will want to come back off course. A friend of mine says he even does interviews there lol
You do not use pace with Andrei Kostitsyn because he has consistently fallen off a near-PPG pace throughout his career. He is prone to following up a hot streak with an excellent scoring pace with a cold streak of absolutely no point production whatsoever. For about 3-7 games, he might score on PPG pace or slightly under it, but then he disappears and produces nothing for the next 3-7 games.

The guy is truly 50/50. Half the time, he's scoring at an elite pace and tapping into his considerable talents. The other half of the time, he's a giant paperweight who manages to screw up the paper he's sitting on.


Last edited by Madam Kadri: 10-05-2012 at 01:09 AM.
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