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Tor/Flor - Tor/Van - Flor/Van

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:06 AM
  #1
Peter
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Tor/Flor - Tor/Van - Flor/Van

I am starting to believe that in order to move Luongo to where he wants to go there might have to be a 3rd team involved. I propose the following:

Trade #1
To Florida: Ben Scrivens + Cody Franson
To Toronto: Theodore and Clemmenson

Trade #2
To Vancouver: Clemmenson
To Toronto: Ballard and Vancouver's 3rd pick 2013

Trade #3
To Florida: Luongo
To Vancovuer: Matthias, Kulikov and Florida's 1st pick 2013

Recap: who gets what?

Florida GETS: Luongo, Scrivens, Franson
Toronto GETS: Theodore, Ballard, 3rd round pick 2013
Vancouver GETS: Clemmenson, Kulikov, Matthias and 1st pick 2013

Recap: who give us what?

Florida GIVES: Theodore, Clemmenson, Kulikov, Matthias, 1st pick 2013
Toronto GIVES: Scrivens, Franson
Vancouver GIVES: Luongo, Ballard, 3rd round pick 2013

Florida give up the most but they get the BEST player in the deal.
Toronto gets value for simply helping to be third man in to get deal done.
Vancouver does not get the bounty they are hoping for but get enough key pieces to help them become potential Cup contenders.

Thoughts?? Be gentle now.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:21 AM
  #2
seanlinden
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There's 2 ways to look at this... individual trades, or as a whole for each team.

If we take the former approach, Toronto makes trade #1, then throws Clemmensen on waivers before considering trade #2.

If we take the latter approach, It's probably close for Toronto, but Florida says no way. Luongo's better than Theodore. He's not that much better. Vancouver obviously comes away laughing....and when that happens with any team, you've generally got a bad proposal.

Realistically, it should be something that is just barely something that each team would do. Maybe take out Florida's 1st without replacing it, and you've got something that works.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:24 AM
  #3
Mystifo
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Yeah... Good luck getting Kulikov from Florida. In before the bullets start to fly.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:28 AM
  #4
AwesomePanthers
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I'm gonna try to be gentle, and this is how gentle I can be: ****ing brutal trade!

Lou isnt gonna fetch a Kulikov or a 1st round pick. Tallon has already stated he wont deal anything significant for Lou. Tallon wont give up Bjugstad, what makes you think he would give up Kulikov or a 1st round pick? Its not gonna happen, EVER. You are so far off its absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry, but this is absolutely disgusting.

And no Florida doesnt get the best player, Vancouver does. This thread should be closed asap.

Vancouver fans overrate Lous value, he is still a good goaltender, but not what he used to be and that contract is brutal.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:32 AM
  #5
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Value wise, it's mostly fair, especially for a 3-way trade proposal and especially for Toronto and Vancouver, but, IMO, Florida gives too much for what they get, Luongo's best years are mostly behind, he's still a very, very good goalie, but he got too much problems in playoffs for Florida to consider moving Kulikov, which is, again IMO, the best player in this deal.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:35 AM
  #6
AwesomePanthers
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You dont give up the best player in the deal + 1st + a decent roster player for a player on a longterm contract that is declining. Florida gives up way too much, way way too much.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:36 AM
  #7
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Overall I think the idea of moving Luongo in a three-way could work, but in this particular proposal I don't see the Leafs even being necessary. Like if Florida was willing to give up what you are proposing, why wouldn't you just add Clemmenson to the VAN-FLA deal and skip TOR altogether? And instead of FLA getting Franson they get Ballard.

Now from a TOR fan perspective, I would be interested in Theodore coming in if Luo went to FLA, but not at the expense of Scrivens. I like him and I think he's a good young goalie who isn't worth giving up for Theodore. For the right price I'd take him and go with a 1A/1B combo of Theodore and Reimer, and 1A/1B for the Marlies of Scrivens and Owuya.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:46 AM
  #8
MoreGore
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Basically Florida gets screwed over, and accomplishes nothing.

Florida GETS: Luongo, Scrivens, Franson
Florida GIVES: Theodore, Clemmenson, Kulikov, Matthias, 1st pick 2013

Luongo is a step up on Theo, but not required because of Markstrom
Scrivens is comparable to Clemmenson, bot h have little value and are easy to replace
Franson is not going to get a mid first rounder
Kulikov and Matthias get nothing.

Your evaluation of Luongo is way off. His contract lowers his value substantially. People have to accept that fact.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:53 AM
  #9
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
I'm gonna try to be gentle, and this is how gentle I can be: ****ing brutal trade!

Lou isnt gonna fetch a Kulikov or a 1st round pick. Tallon has already stated he wont deal anything significant for Lou. Tallon wont give up Bjugstad, what makes you think he would give up Kulikov or a 1st round pick? Its not gonna happen, EVER. You are so far off its absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry, but this is absolutely disgusting.

And no Florida doesnt get the best player, Vancouver does. This thread should be closed asap.

Vancouver fans overrate Lous value, he is still a good goaltender, but not what he used to be and that contract is brutal.
While that logic is off, as I believe one of the reasons Bjugstad is untouchable is due to your lack of centre depth, I agree there's no way Florida considers this.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:58 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
Basically Florida gets screwed over, and accomplishes nothing.

Florida GETS: Luongo, Scrivens, Franson
Florida GIVES: Theodore, Clemmenson, Kulikov, Matthias, 1st pick 2013

Luongo is a step up on Theo, but not required because of Markstrom
Scrivens is comparable to Clemmenson, bot h have little value and are easy to replace
Franson is not going to get a mid first rounder
Kulikov and Matthias get nothing.

Your evaluation of Luongo is way off. His contract lowers his value substantially. People have to accept that fact.
Fact v opinion, no diff?

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:01 AM
  #11
Johnny Bravo
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Trade #3 is brutal for florida.

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:06 AM
  #12
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This is terrible for Florida.

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:13 AM
  #13
Howboutthempanthers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
I am starting to believe that in order to move Luongo to where he wants to go there might have to be a 3rd team involved. I propose the following:

Trade #1
To Florida: Ben Scrivens + Cody Franson
To Toronto: Theodore and Clemmenson

Trade #2
To Vancouver: Clemmenson
To Toronto: Ballard and Vancouver's 3rd pick 2013

Trade #3
To Florida: Luongo
To Vancovuer: Matthias, Kulikov and Florida's 1st pick 2013

Recap: who gets what?

Florida GETS: Luongo, Scrivens, Franson
Toronto GETS: Theodore, Ballard, 3rd round pick 2013
Vancouver GETS: Clemmenson, Kulikov, Matthias and 1st pick 2013

Recap: who give us what?

Florida GIVES: Theodore, Clemmenson, Kulikov, Matthias, 1st pick 2013
Toronto GIVES: Scrivens, Franson
Vancouver GIVES: Luongo, Ballard, 3rd round pick 2013

Florida give up the most but they get the BEST player in the deal.
Toronto gets value for simply helping to be third man in to get deal done.
Vancouver does not get the bounty they are hoping for but get enough key pieces to help them become potential Cup contenders.

Thoughts?? Be gentle now.
Well I think you overestimate Florida's interest in Luongo. Because he is supposedly the target in this proposal for Florida. And they are not giving up one of their future top 2 D men and their 1st round pick in next years draft, a draft that is stacked, to get Luongo. The rest of the players involved are throw-ins.

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:15 AM
  #14
AwesomePanthers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
While that logic is off, as I believe one of the reasons Bjugstad is untouchable is due to your lack of centre depth, I agree there's no way Florida considers this.
Its not, Tallon said that he wont trade any of our big future assets for short-term solutions.

And this proposal is one of the worst I've seen on HF, ever.

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:23 AM
  #15
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not interested in a florida perspective in any way shape or form.

i would not trade a 1st for Lou, I would definitely not trade Kulikov for him straight up. No way in hell personally I would see that done.

this trade is brutal to the extreme.

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:35 AM
  #16
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Luongo isn't going to Florida unless Florida is trading scraps for him. They don't NEED him with Markstrom very close to being NHL-ready. They could rather just wait on him that trade valuable pieces. Clemmer/Theodore can hold up the fort for the time being.

It's simple as that.

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:52 AM
  #17
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Burtal.

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:57 AM
  #18
seanlinden
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So my question is... just what is the Panthers' willingness to pay for Luongo?

I'd assume the Canucks choice (possibly Theo's choice) of Clemmensen/Theodore would be on the starting point... but what's the best asset that the Panthers would include along with him?

Obviously Huberdeau isn't on the table.... but where is the breaking point? Is it Bjugstad? the first? Howden? Petrovic? Matheson? At what price would you be willing to let him go elsewhere?

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:58 AM
  #19
Vankiller Whale
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Why does Florida even need Scrivens or Franson's rights? That trade is probably just as bad.

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Old
09-23-2012, 11:07 AM
  #20
Peter
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Well, it sure appears as though Florida fans love this trade proposal.

Listen, to say Luongo is a "step up" on Theodore is like saying Brodeur is a "step up" from Reimer. Come on. Luongo is light years ahead of Theo.

Van is going to wait until they get some value back from Theo - Kulikov obviously has value but not the same as Bjustad, Huberdeau etc - names Gillis originally asked for. Kulikov is despensible from Florida's stand point.

Why include TO in this deal? Because Theodore does NOT want to go to Vancouver -doesn't like their goalie coach. And Theo will not play back-up to Luongo. So a 3rd team is needed to land Theo - enter Toronto. He could play #1 minutes while Reimer hones his game as a 20+ game back up for one year.

Scrivens will be more than a capable back-up for Luongo in Florida and be trade bait next year when Markstrom comes in.

To say Florida loses this deal simply means you have less value for Luongo than most of the league has for him. Luongo is, hands down, the better goalie than anything Florida has at this moment!!

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Old
09-23-2012, 11:28 AM
  #21
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Well, it sure appears as though Florida fans love this trade proposal.

Listen, to say Luongo is a "step up" on Theodore is like saying Brodeur is a "step up" from Reimer. Come on. Luongo is light years ahead of Theo.

Van is going to wait until they get some value back from Theo - Kulikov obviously has value but not the same as Bjustad, Huberdeau etc - names Gillis originally asked for. Kulikov is despensible from Florida's stand point.

Why include TO in this deal? Because Theodore does NOT want to go to Vancouver -doesn't like their goalie coach. And Theo will not play back-up to Luongo. So a 3rd team is needed to land Theo - enter Toronto. He could play #1 minutes while Reimer hones his game as a 20+ game back up for one year.

Scrivens will be more than a capable back-up for Luongo in Florida and be trade bait next year when Markstrom comes in.

To say Florida loses this deal simply means you have less value for Luongo than most of the league has for him. Luongo is, hands down, the better goalie than anything Florida has at this moment!!
Jose Theodore played 53 games last year. He put up a 2.46gaa and .916 sv%. Not Luongo's 2.41 and .919 in 55 games, but certainly not far off either. Consider that Vancovuer is a better team than Florida, and that Theodore makes 1/4 of what Luongo makes, and that's a tough sell.

The year before, he did similar things in Minnesota playing only 32 games.

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Old
09-23-2012, 11:32 AM
  #22
Vankiller Whale
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Counter proposal-

To Florida: Luongo, Ashton, Raymond

To Toronto: Theodore

To Vancouver: Tor 2nd, Petrovic, Matthias, Fla 1st

Although I think we're better off not trading Luongo to Florida. They have the smallest need for him, we could probably do better elsewhere.

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Old
09-23-2012, 11:36 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
You dont give up the best player in the deal + 1st + a decent roster player for a player on a longterm contract that is declining. Florida gives up way too much, way way too much.
Luongo>>>Kulikov, but I agree Florida gets fleeced

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09-23-2012, 11:41 AM
  #24
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kulikov

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Old
09-23-2012, 11:43 AM
  #25
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And here, another Canucks fan creates yet another trade proposal in which Vancouver comes out the undisputed winner in a Luongo deal. Others have already said it, but I'll echo them anyway: this proposal is absurd.

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