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Old
09-23-2012, 03:31 PM
  #76
stryfe604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What's absurd is people thinking Luongo has very low value.
Let's compromise here. Lou's value isn't as low as non canuck fans make it to be. Also his value is not as high as Canuck fans make it out to be.

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09-23-2012, 03:32 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howboutthempanthers View Post
This argument always tickles me. If the Panthers fans are "over valuing" their prospects so much, why do you guys keep trying to get your hands on them so bad?
Or in turn hold on to Schneider and Lack. Which are better bargaining chips in my opinion.

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Old
09-23-2012, 03:33 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What's absurd is people thinking Luongo has very low value.
There's no such thing as "low value", only "lower value than _____"

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Old
09-23-2012, 03:35 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
I hear this guy named samjam is the real deal! Broke the Hodgson for Kassian deadline trade before TSN. #SamJamRocks
I think you forgot the

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeX4cavalier View Post
I don't think he's even a top 10 young dman, I guess it depends on what you consider young.
Karlsson
Doughty
Pietrangelo
Mcdonagh
Subban
Myers
OEL
Shattenkirk
Bogosian
Del Zotto
Dmen around his age that are better imo
Needs More Hedman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
I am starting to believe that in order to move Luongo to where he wants to go there might have to be a 3rd team involved. I propose the following:

Trade #1
To Florida: Ben Scrivens + Cody Franson
To Toronto: Theodore and Clemmenson

Trade #2
To Vancouver: Clemmenson
To Toronto: Ballard and Vancouver's 3rd pick 2013

Trade #3
To Florida: Luongo
To Vancovuer: Matthias, Kulikov and Florida's 1st pick 2013

Recap: who gets what?

Florida GETS: Luongo, Scrivens, Franson
Toronto GETS: Theodore, Ballard, 3rd round pick 2013
Vancouver GETS: Clemmenson, Kulikov, Matthias and 1st pick 2013

Recap: who give us what?

Florida GIVES: Theodore, Clemmenson, Kulikov, Matthias, 1st pick 2013
Toronto GIVES: Scrivens, Franson
Vancouver GIVES: Luongo, Ballard, 3rd round pick 2013

Florida give up the most but they get the BEST player in the deal.
Toronto gets value for simply helping to be third man in to get deal done.
Vancouver does not get the bounty they are hoping for but get enough key pieces to help them become potential Cup contenders.

Thoughts?? Be gentle now.
Really hope Florida would do this, as Tampa fan . As a sane person though Florida gets butt ***** without lube

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Old
09-23-2012, 03:35 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Maybe the poster considers it to be hardwork to be patient, scout well and develop one's own prospects. I mean surely it takes more than "consistently losing games" to build a prospect pool otherwise a team like Columbus would be successful at it as well.
I'd say that hard work falls more on the draftee then the drafters. Is it the drafters fault that the draftee doesn't take things seriously & they fall off a cliff? A drafter can provide all the tools to succeed for the draftee but if HE doesn't put in the hard work he is likely to fail.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
I implore you, did I ever insinuate that Theo is the better goalie?
No but you busted into a conversation between myself & Crymson who was insinuating That Theo was while hyping Theodore's achievements... you can see how that CAN be confusing right? Especially with the snide remarks like "he has some shiny hardware that Luongo will never get his hands on" ... who are you Borat?




Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
There's no such thing as "low value", only "lower value than _____"
I'll fill in that blank for you:

"Reality"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Howboutthempanthers View Post
This argument always tickles me. If the Panthers fans are "over valuing" their prospects so much, why do you guys keep trying to get your hands on them so bad?
Because your fan base isn't willing to let go of anyone on your team that doesn't have negative value/or is a cap dump. Go back early in the Summer & you'll see threads with posters suggestions of players who we keep getting told are basically untouchable.... like everyone else in that Franchise apparently.

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Old
09-23-2012, 03:37 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Maybe the solution is simple as this...

To Vancouver: Carter Ashton, Toronto 2nd, Florida 2nd
To Florida: Luongo
To Toronto: Theodore

Vancouver gets the cap space they need, a prospect who can play right away, and some bargaining pieces to get immidiate help*. Florida gets Luongo back at minimal cost. Toronto gets a stop-gap goaltender to tandem with James Reimer.

The way I view it... Florida fans can, and should appreciate that Roberto Luongo is better than Jose Theodore (even with contracts considered), and give up a 2nd to reflect that. Markstrom is still a great unknown, and a few years away from challenging for a #1 role.

Toronto would likely prefer Theodore because they have James Reimer who's ready to play, so really only want a stop-gap solution. Vancouver's primary need is likely going to be cap space, and this deal allows them to get that plus some valuable bargaining chips.

*based on affordability and where the cap ends up

edit: Certainly a possibility to go further into what every team should want. Toronto sends Scrivens to Florida and the Panthers send Clemmensen to Vancouver. Panthers get a relatively young goalie who can backup right away and put some pressure on Markstrom, Vancouver gets a backup so they're not trying to win a cup with less than 100 NHL games between their goaltenders.
Toronto gives up more for Theodore than Florida for Luongo? How about..

Vancouver - Fla 1, Tor 2
Florida - Luongo
Toronto- Theodore

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Old
09-23-2012, 03:37 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Oh have you now? Like how Edmonton has "worked hard" to acquire their 3 1st overalls? The only thing that was worked hard in sucking to get high draft picks is an already small fan base's loyalty.

Depends... are you talking down one player to make your point? Isn't a GM's job to make a competitive team? A Team that wins more games then it loses? Does Luongo on the Panthers make them more or less competitive? Does he give them better or worse chances to win games?


I understand that you may not want Luongo but if you don't want to read all this & are feeling bothered why not just leave the thread? You don't have to be here, especially now that you know what the topic will revolve around.
You are really not in your best topic? We have traded core-players for many of those picks too. Tallon has done a tremendous job. Not just the top picks, but also getting quality out of the depth picks.

Floridas attendance and market has always been underrated massively around here. 10 years without playoffs, but have still averaged 15.500 even in the worst years. Compare that to the "big market" teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago and Washington when they were at their worst. We have outstanding loyal-fans, and I'm expecting an increase after last years success.

Yes, Lou would help, but not much. And it would only be for a season, before Markström would take over. Whats the point dealing quality assets for one year of Lou, and then just being stuck with that bad contract for 10 years. Makes absolutely no sense, and Tallon has stated many times that he wont deal away our assets for a short-term solution. And he wont, and I dont believe the interest Florida had was for long when Gillis asked for a retarded deal. And the small chance for Lou returning ended when we resigned Clemmer. The only way Tallon would make a team is with a capdump like Upshall or Jovo, plus maybe Matthias or a decent prospect like Knight or McFarland (IMO).

Lou would be a short-term solution that would help us for a year, and not even by much since Theo was great last year. So it makes absolutely no sense to trade for him, and then being stuck with a 10 year contract for a goalie thats declining.

Why I come back? I try to stay out of this, but when Nucks fans make terrible proposals that absolutely blow your mind, I have to speak up. Its like Gillis has brainwashed you to believe to get a lot in return for Lou, which is not gonna happen, unless some desperate team like Toronto or CBJ would give a little more.

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Old
09-23-2012, 03:40 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
I'd say that hard work falls more on the draftee then the drafters. Is it the drafters fault that the draftee doesn't take things seriously & they fall off a cliff? A drafter can provide all the tools to succeed for the draftee but if HE doesn't put in the hard work he is likely to fail.




No but you busted into a conversation between myself & Crymson who was insinuating That Theo was while hyping Theodore's achievements... you can see how that CAN be confusing right? Especially with the snide remarks like "he has some shiny hardware that Luongo will never get his hands on" ... who are you Borat?






I'll fill in that blank for you:

"Reality"
I don't understand this. How does this make any sense? To determine value you must have a comparison. Value just doesn't appear out of thin air. Achievements, Stats, Contracts, and Prior trades which are/would be/were similar are all taken into consideration to determine the value of said player.

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Old
09-23-2012, 03:41 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeX4cavalier View Post
He said Kulikov was one of the best young dmen in the nhl, all the dmen I listed are young
True but he is younger than almost all of them and I would take him over Del Zotto and Shattenkirk in that list.

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Old
09-23-2012, 03:43 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
You are really not in your best topic? We have traded core-players for many of those picks too. Tallon has done a tremendous job. Not just the top picks, but also getting quality out of the depth picks.

Floridas attendance and market has always been underrated massively around here. 10 years without playoffs, but have still averaged 15.500 even in the worst years. Compare that to the "big market" teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago and Washington when they were at their worst. We have outstanding loyal-fans, and I'm expecting an increase after last years success.

Yes, Lou would help, but not much. And it would only be for a season, before Markström would take over. Whats the point dealing quality assets for one year of Lou, and then just being stuck with that bad contract for 10 years. Makes absolutely no sense, and Tallon has stated many times that he wont deal away our assets for a short-term solution. And he wont, and I dont believe the interest Florida had was for long when Gillis asked for a retarded deal. And the small chance for Lou returning ended when we resigned Clemmer. The only way Tallon would make a team is with a capdump like Upshall or Jovo, plus maybe Matthias or a decent prospect like Knight or McFarland (IMO).

Lou would be a short-term solution that would help us for a year, and not even by much since Theo was great last year. So it makes absolutely no sense to trade for him, and then being stuck with a 10 year contract for a goalie thats declining.

Why I come back? I try to stay out of this, but when Nucks fans make terrible proposals that absolutely blow your mind, I have to speak up. Its like Gillis has brainwashed you to believe to get a lot in return for Lou, which is not gonna happen, unless some desperate team like Toronto or CBJ would give a little more.
Hmmm... what is this? Logic...get outta here!

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Old
09-23-2012, 03:44 PM
  #86
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This thread is nothing but bickering. We are done.

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