HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

François Allaire will not return as goalie coach for the Toronto Maple Leafs

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-21-2012, 09:02 PM
  #426
DaveT83*
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by spidergoalie View Post
Burke came to a team with Wilson as the coach, and despite all his talk of truculence and testosterone, he proceeded to build a team tailored to Wilson's style. OK, there is nothing wrong with building that sort of team if that is what you want, but then one should be consistant in doing so.

Then he gets Allaire.
Now there is no question Allaire has a pedigree, with some cups and conn smythe's along the way. However Burke had to know Allaire's style and his personality well from the Duck days. He knew Allaire is strictly a guru of the blocking butterfly style.
He brought in goalies who also wanted to play that way. (of course many want to ignore this and just blame Allaire for "forcing" the goalies to play his way. All of them are united in their praise for Allaire even now.)

In my humble opinion Burke then made probably his biggest mistake with Leaf goaltending, when he decided to go with two relatively inexperienced goalies.

So we have inexperienced goalies, under overwhelming media/fan scrutiny, playing behind a team which routinely leaves it's goalies hung out to dry facing high quality scoring chances, with them trying to employ a technical percentage based system.
Then to make matters worse, the goalie coach and head coach are not on speaking terms, and others are brought in to work with the goalies, giving them a different message from the actual goalie coach (technically "goalie consultant").
How could this be anything but a recipe for failure?

What makes the optics even worse however, is that in both the cases of Wilson and Allaire, Burke in his undying loyalty spouts off to the media how great these guys are and how they are not going anywhere, only to fire them a couple months later.

I think Burke is a great and loyal friend, but as result of his words versus actions, he has zero credibility left. If there is an argument saying Wilson and Allaire failed, there is therefore an equal or greater argument Burke has failed as well.
^THIS

/thread

DaveT83* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2012, 09:13 PM
  #427
weems
Registered User
 
weems's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Jones View Post
Kind of irrelevant - the job of the goalie coach (or consultant, whatever) is to make the most of whatever assets there are in the system, regardless of their talent level or style. While I'd suggest he did well with Reimer and Scrivens in their first exposure to him, Reimer's play steadily dropped off thereafter, while Gustavsson regressed noticeably thought his three years. Not why you want to see from young talents - evening theyz're not destined to be elite talents (which remains to be seen), they shouldn't regress that much under good coaching.
Who knows if Reimer regressed or simply never recovered after being out for a prolonged period of time due to injury. Even the best goalie coachs in the world can only do so much with goalies especially ones that were never pegged to be above average #1's in the NHL in the first place. I understand what your saying but I'm of the opinion that Allaire really wasnt giving much to work with in the first place so its really hard to criticize him for the job he did.

weems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2012, 02:04 AM
  #428
The Apologist
Kessel Supporter
 
The Apologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Soviet Kanukistan
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,350
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
The only question that exists any longer is how long until a thread ends up as a Burke bash fest. We even have people in here acting as apologists for the Canadiens, believe it or not.
So much this

The Apologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2012, 06:57 AM
  #429
Dalton
Registered User
 
Dalton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Ho Chi Minh City
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 2,096
vCash: 500
IMHO Burke's credibility is the biggest loser in this event. I also think this adds fuel to the fire for those who question his competence.

Any fan can now say 'you mean you were lying to me all this time? what other lies did you tell me?' and neither Burke nor any fan can argue this.

When he traded two top picks to Boston he said the team was good and needed only a piece to make the POs. Was he lying? Each year he said the team could make the POs was he lying? He says our goalies are good enough is he lying? He says the team lets him run things his way, is he lying? Credibility flushed.

The minimal net effect of this is that fans debating our team cannot go all 'appealing to authority' by quoting Burke. Not anymore. Since it seems that all those fans saying that Allaire was out of touch were correct according to Burke despite Burke's assurances to the contrary.

One can blame Allaire I suppose but Burke should have made a move long ago but just as he failed to do with Wilson he waited and tried to manage the situation and failed. We deserve better from the wealthiest team in the sport. We should be the Yankees of the NHL under George. I suppose we'll just see more waiting it out and massaging the situation, hoping for the best until the inevitable.

It's all over but the crying.

Dalton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2012, 07:04 AM
  #430
paulster2626
Registered User
 
paulster2626's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,416
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
IMHO Burke's credibility is the biggest loser in this event. I also think this adds fuel to the fire for those who question his competence.

Any fan can now say 'you mean you were lying to me all this time? what other lies did you tell me?' and neither Burke nor any fan can argue this.

When he traded two top picks to Boston he said the team was good and needed only a piece to make the POs. Was he lying? Each year he said the team could make the POs was he lying? He says our goalies are good enough is he lying? He says the team lets him run things his way, is he lying? Credibility flushed.

The minimal net effect of this is that fans debating our team cannot go all 'appealing to authority' by quoting Burke. Not anymore. Since it seems that all those fans saying that Allaire was out of touch were correct according to Burke despite Burke's assurances to the contrary.

One can blame Allaire I suppose but Burke should have made a move long ago but just as he failed to do with Wilson he waited and tried to manage the situation and failed. We deserve better from the wealthiest team in the sport. We should be the Yankees of the NHL under George. I suppose we'll just see more waiting it out and massaging the situation, hoping for the best until the inevitable.

It's all over but the crying.
I think Burke isn't really worried about what you or I think of him. Rather his bosses who pay him his $3m a year or whatever. It's those people who hang on every word he says who are to be disappointed.

Burke doesn't have the luxury of honesty because his arena is full every single night. He HAS to say that the team is good enough (or close to it) to make the playoffs for the very reasons you stated.

Some of us actually do prefer the way hes doing things though rather than the immediate knee-jerk reactions you seem to be suggesting.

paulster2626 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 04:12 PM
  #431
cannucky
Registered User
 
cannucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 105
vCash: 500
Happy ! Happy ! Joy ! Joy !
Good riddance to bad garbage , the game passed his style by 3 years ago

cannucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 04:54 PM
  #432
ForSpareParts*
agreement
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,904
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by spidergoalie View Post
Burke came to a team with Wilson as the coach, and despite all his talk of truculence and testosterone, he proceeded to build a team tailored to Wilson's style. OK, there is nothing wrong with building that sort of team if that is what you want, but then one should be consistant in doing so.

Then he gets Allaire.
Now there is no question Allaire has a pedigree, with some cups and conn smythe's along the way. However Burke had to know Allaire's style and his personality well from the Duck days. He knew Allaire is strictly a guru of the blocking butterfly style.
He brought in goalies who also wanted to play that way. (of course many want to ignore this and just blame Allaire for "forcing" the goalies to play his way. All of them are united in their praise for Allaire even now.)

In my humble opinion Burke then made probably his biggest mistake with Leaf goaltending, when he decided to go with two relatively inexperienced goalies.

So we have inexperienced goalies, under overwhelming media/fan scrutiny, playing behind a team which routinely leaves it's goalies hung out to dry facing high quality scoring chances, with them trying to employ a technical percentage based system.
Then to make matters worse, the goalie coach and head coach are not on speaking terms, and others are brought in to work with the goalies, giving them a different message from the actual goalie coach (technically "goalie consultant").
How could this be anything but a recipe for failure?

What makes the optics even worse however, is that in both the cases of Wilson and Allaire, Burke in his undying loyalty spouts off to the media how great these guys are and how they are not going anywhere, only to fire them a couple months later.

I think Burke is a great and loyal friend, but as result of his words versus actions, he has zero credibility left. If there is an argument saying Wilson and Allaire failed, there is therefore an equal or greater argument Burke has failed as well.
you make many points that i agree with. i would like to add that GM's don't like to fire coaches and will only do so as last resource.

poor team performance = poor coaching
continuous poor coaching = poor GM

we are seeing it all come apart bit by bit:

assistant coaches fired->coach fired->goalie coach->GM.

hard to imagine Carlyle getting sacked before Burke this time around.

tick tick tick...

ForSpareParts* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2012, 05:13 PM
  #433
CellarDweller0
Registered User
 
CellarDweller0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,224
vCash: 500
so QUOTE=ForSpareParts;54535977]you make many poinsthat i agree with. i would like to add that GM's don't like to fire coaches and will only do so as last resource.

poor team performance = poor coaching
continuous poor coaching = poor GM

we are seeing it all come apart bit by bit:

assistant coaches fired->coach fired->goalie coach->GM.

hard to imagine Carlyle getting sacked before Burke this time around.

tick tick tick...[/QUOTE]

You post this like Wilson was a Burke hire. I think Burke has more time than most think.

CellarDweller0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.