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Old
09-23-2012, 05:48 PM
  #26
Laus723
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We say Tallon will keep Jugs, gets met with OVERHYPING ROFL, etc, no, we all know what Tallon has said and proven.

Find another way, or stop asking for a guy you're gonna trash as unproven. we're happy keeping Bjugstad.

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09-23-2012, 05:53 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I didn't say the Panthers couldn't contend without Luongo, simply acquiring him might mean they would be looking to acquire more veterans in exchange for futures.

And I don't know what your expectations for Bjugstad are, but if you think it's likely he becomes better than an excellent defensive player who gets around 60 points a season, I would think you are overvaluing him.
Tallon will stay the course, and yeah believe it's possible. Not taking anything from Plekanec, have just followed Tallon closely

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09-23-2012, 08:22 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Honestly if Bjustad becomes as good as Plekanec I'd call him a success. He might add more physicality, but that's about it. Florida only does this if they decide to start competing now(which they might if they acquire Luongo.)
Gotta love comments like this! Florida wins their division, takes the Devils to 7 games in the first round, and they did it without competing now!! As for Luongo, why would he be better in Florida than with the better team in Vancouver?

Let's get it straight already. Roberto is not coming to Florida with his current contract. The Panther owners are not deep pockets and can not take on the salary with the current revenue streams they have. And they are not going to put a lengthy roadblock in front of Markstrom. And since Vancouver is not looking to take back salary there is just no likely scenario that lands him in Florida.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:08 PM
  #29
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Wow. Some fans that think Hype is > than a proven player.

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09-23-2012, 09:11 PM
  #30
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Habs say no.

Stick with proven talent. This board is truly becoming a joke when it comes to over evaluating prospects.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:12 PM
  #31
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...Only on HFboards.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:16 PM
  #32
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Wow. Some fans that think Hype is > than a proven player.
Yes some on us think Mcdonagh > Gomez, that Iginla > Nieuwendyk.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:20 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Yes some on us think Mcdonagh > Gomez, that Iginla > Nieuwendyk.
Or that Patrick White > Ehrhoff and Bergfors + Cormier > Kovalchuk, right?

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09-23-2012, 09:25 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Or that Patrick White > Ehrhoff and Bergfors + Cormier > Kovalchuk, right?

And i'll add Daigle was the next comming.
Some fans and their hype players.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:26 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Wow. Some fans that think Hype is > than a proven player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Carmoni View Post
Habs say no.

Stick with proven talent. This board is truly becoming a joke when it comes to over evaluating prospects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
...Only on HFboards.
Nah, Panther fans know what management thinks of Bjugstad. Don't see either team doing it anyway.

Stop getting twisted up when a team's fans know their GMs desire to stick to his plan, patiently develop from within, and thus build properly for the first time in forever to develop a perpetually competitive team.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:28 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Carmoni View Post
Habs say no.

Stick with proven talent. This board is truly becoming a joke when it comes to over evaluating prospects.
Or any player around the age of 20. Their all going to be superstars.


Last edited by PayItForward: 09-23-2012 at 09:47 PM.
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Old
09-23-2012, 09:42 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Nah, Panther fans know what management thinks of Bjugstad. Don't see either team doing it anyway.

Stop getting twisted up when a team's fans know their GMs desire to stick to his plan, patiently develop from within, and thus build properly for the first time in forever to develop a perpetually competitive team.
Fair enough if Tallon doesn't want to trade his prospects but it doesn't mean every single one of them would have their value terribly inflated.

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:48 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Or that Patrick White > Ehrhoff and Bergfors + Cormier > Kovalchuk, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
And i'll add Daigle was the next comming.
Some fans and their hype players.
Maybe we should start a thread about Proven vs Potential.

the way i see it, there is not a big difference, its all about the expectation we have for player to perform in the future.

the fact that a player is "proven" is not a guarantee he will continue to perform the way he did in the past, but it help evaluate the odds that he will do it again.

To summarize, i would rather have a prospect i expect to play great than a proven player i expect to play only well.

If my scout expect Bjugstad to become close or better than Plekanec, i have to take the deal as a prospect doesnt even need to become as good as the proven player to make the deal worthwhile. The advantage to have his right many year before he become UFA and often on a cheaper contract make it for some of the difference in skill.

And if Bjugstad become a Plekanec or even better then its a steal. It often worth the gamble if my scout think so.

its like the lottery, a Proven 2$ for a potential 1 000 000$ never ever worth it if the odds are the 6/49 one (one chance out of 13 000 000 or something like that).
But a Proven 2$ worth a potential 100 000 000$ if we keep the same odds.

so if i evaluate that Bjugstad have 20 % chance to become a total bust, 50% chance to become close to the player Plekanec is and 30% to become a Plekanec or better i take the deal.
(taking into account i expect Plekanec to decline in the next few year...he already declined last season. Plekanec now in my opinion doesn't worth the Plekanec we have seen in Montreal in his prime.)


Last edited by palindrom: 09-23-2012 at 10:03 PM.
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Old
09-23-2012, 10:05 PM
  #39
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Plekanec didn't decline last year. He played with AHL scrubs with half the year. Not to mention constant line shuffling.

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:10 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Carmoni View Post
Plekanec didn't decline last year. He played with AHL scrubs with half the year. Not to mention constant line shuffling.
i did mean "slight" decline. Nothing abrupt.

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:22 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Fair enough if Tallon doesn't want to trade his prospects but it doesn't mean every single one of them would have their value terribly inflated.
Or, it means he's focused, and seeing as how he won't move Bjugstad in a Louie trade he's not likely to move him.

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:46 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Carmoni View Post
Plekanec didn't decline last year. He played with AHL scrubs with half the year. Not to mention constant line shuffling.
Obviously, everything from management to players was a gong show last year in Montreal. But Plekanec was invisible last year. Which isn't a good thing.

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Old
09-23-2012, 10:57 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
Gotta love comments like this! Florida wins their division, takes the Devils to 7 games in the first round, and they did it without competing now!! As for Luongo, why would he be better in Florida than with the better team in Vancouver?

Let's get it straight already. Roberto is not coming to Florida with his current contract. The Panther owners are not deep pockets and can not take on the salary with the current revenue streams they have. And they are not going to put a lengthy roadblock in front of Markstrom. And since Vancouver is not looking to take back salary there is just no likely scenario that lands him in Florida.
Why is everyone taking offense? I only meant that if Tallon felt that it was time to start converting futures into proven assets, then he might be interested. Seeing as that's probably not the case, and he's still waiting on prospects to develop, I don't think he'd do it.

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09-23-2012, 11:13 PM
  #44
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Judging from the reaction in this thread, you would think Plekanec was a bum.

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Old
09-23-2012, 11:39 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crt View Post
Judging from the reaction in this thread, you would think Plekanec was a bum.
QFT
The underrating of 2-way center is going ooooonnn.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Obviously, everything from management to players was a gong show last year in Montreal. But Plekanec was invisible last year. Which isn't a good thing.
Invisible ??? Are you for real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Maybe we should start a thread about Proven vs Potential.

the way i see it, there is not a big difference, its all about the expectation we have for player to perform in the future.

the fact that a player is "proven" is not a guarantee he will continue to perform the way he did in the past, but it help evaluate the odds that he will do it again.

To summarize, i would rather have a prospect i expect to play great than a proven player i expect to play only well.

If my scout expect Bjugstad to become close or better than Plekanec, i have to take the deal as a prospect doesnt even need to become as good as the proven player to make the deal worthwhile. The advantage to have his right many year before he become UFA and often on a cheaper contract make it for some of the difference in skill.

And if Bjugstad become a Plekanec or even better then its a steal. It often worth the gamble if my scout think so.

its like the lottery, a Proven 2$ for a potential 1 000 000$ never ever worth it if the odds are the 6/49 one (one chance out of 13 000 000 or something like that).
But a Proven 2$ worth a potential 100 000 000$ if we keep the same odds.

so if i evaluate that Bjugstad have 20 % chance to become a total bust, 50% chance to become close to the player Plekanec is and 30% to become a Plekanec or better i take the deal.
(taking into account i expect Plekanec to decline in the next few year...he already declined last season. Plekanec now in my opinion doesn't worth the Plekanec we have seen in Montreal in his prime.)
Wait you're writing a bible now, and it's full of BS... Well it fits the bill, go on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Nah, Panther fans know what management thinks of Bjugstad. Don't see either team doing it anyway.

Stop getting twisted up when a team's fans know their GMs desire to stick to his plan, patiently develop from within, and thus build properly for the first time in forever to develop a perpetually competitive team.
Sure.. You can say this, but to say value is not there, or MTL would have to add a first or things like that, it's dumb..

Plekanec has more value than Bjug ATM.
Just like Weiss has more value than Leblanc..

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Old
09-23-2012, 11:47 PM
  #46
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Wow. Some fans that think Hype is > than a proven player.
If that's the case, then why does Mon want to lose a "proven player" on an "over-hyped prospect"????????????? Riddle me this.

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Old
09-23-2012, 11:53 PM
  #47
Mrb1p
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If that's the case, then why does Mon want to lose a "proven player" on an "over-hyped prospect"????????????? Riddle me this.
Well, I don't . It's MTL

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Old
09-24-2012, 01:56 AM
  #48
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Doesnt really help, since there is no chance Tallon deals Bjugstad after what he has done in College. He has all the tools to be an elite NHL player.
the word "elite" gets thrown out there wayyyy too much,he has the potentiel to be a good NHL'er but nowhere near ELITE players like Sid,Geno etc

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09-24-2012, 04:28 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
If that's the case, then why does Mon want to lose a "proven player" on an "over-hyped prospect"????????????? Riddle me this.
Ah we don't.

But than since on HFB prospects= elite players why worry.We have many prospects opps i mean elite players comming up just like the Panthers do.


Last edited by mytor4*: 09-24-2012 at 04:39 AM. Reason: adding
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Old
09-24-2012, 06:35 AM
  #50
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Ah we don't.

But than since on HFB prospects= elite players why worry.We have many prospects opps i mean elite players comming up just like the Panthers do.
What about Beaulieux + 1st for Jovanovski ?

We have to undo the ravaging damage we did to our organization in 2007 by trading our proven Rivet for only a potential Gorges and a 1st (Pacioretty).
This trade Probably cost us the playoff in 2007! We missed the playoff by 1 point! At the same time Rivet became San Jose #01 defenseman in the playoff. What a bad trade!


Last edited by palindrom: 09-24-2012 at 06:56 AM.
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