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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part V

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Old
09-21-2012, 03:23 AM
  #276
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Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
Saying there's no chance the Islanders leave the NY market is NOT in the NHL's talking points.

The NHL's/Islanders stance is: "We want to stay in Long Island, then the NY Metro area, but someone needs to pony up with with a sweetheart arena deal for this club, because if not, they COULD leave."



"want to avoid" relocation and "definitely not" relocating are two extremely different things. The Islanders (and league's) best leverage is the threat of leaving the market.
you know what kev? i agree with you here. That means one of two things:

1. Levin isnt yet in serious talks about an NHL team in Seattle with the NHL.
2. Levin isnt cooperating with the NHL.

if i'm a seattle nhl fan, i'm hoping for the former, though neither are really great news.

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09-21-2012, 04:31 AM
  #277
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you know what kev? i agree with you here. That means one of two things:

1. Levin isnt yet in serious talks about an NHL team in Seattle with the NHL.
2. Levin isnt cooperating with the NHL.

if i'm a seattle nhl fan, i'm hoping for the former, though neither are really great news.
I'm guessing it's #1. He's straight-shooting with the Seattle press, and probably hasn't gotten the company line from the NHL. But his comments about NYI/PHX makes it sound like he's made some calls to Jamison & Wang.

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09-21-2012, 08:57 AM
  #278
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I'm guessing it's #1. He's straight-shooting with the Seattle press, and probably hasn't gotten the company line from the NHL. But his comments about NYI/PHX makes it sound like he's made some calls to Jamison & Wang.

Probably. Since he's been trying to find a team to purchase.
I'll take Levin's word over the out of town press, which can't seem to help jumping the gun, anxious to see some team relocate to their city/country.


12 yrs ago Wang bought the team, after being promised a new arena by County pols.
9 yrs later, he gave a local radio interview talking about the $ he's lost and political foot dragging, saying if he had the chance to buy the team again, he wouldn't.
The out of town press ran with the headline: Wang hates owning the NYI.
How many false Wang desperately wants to sell articles, did that lead to?



When the Lighthouse project was derailed by the Republicans, the out of town press reported the Isles were for sale. Wang had to publicly deny it.
At one point,about 2 yrs ago, a Canadian paper reported that Wang had walked away from the team and it was being run by the league, that the team would be sold by the league. Daly had to come out and deny it. Several weeks later, Wang was again at the draft with Snow, doing his usual meddling.

I think Levin's comments support Gallof's recent article, that Wang wants to play the County off against Ratner, hoping to get a stronger deal from Brooklyn.

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09-21-2012, 10:53 AM
  #279
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The league, meanwhile, has stronger interest in going to Seattle than any other market but has been waiting on the building to come together before considering it a realistic.

Despite a few setbacks in some troubled markets, however, the league’s brass want to continue to try and expand the league’s footprint in the United States.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4557898/

It's all fine and dandy that the NHL still wants to try and expand the league’s footprint in the United States by going into Seattle... at least people there will watch hockey. But why would anyone look at expansion when you have obvious markets that can't draw flies?

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09-21-2012, 11:01 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
The league, meanwhile, has stronger interest in going to Seattle than any other market but has been waiting on the building to come together before considering it a realistic.

Despite a few setbacks in some troubled markets, however, the league’s brass want to continue to try and expand the league’s footprint in the United States.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4557898/

It's all fine and dandy that the NHL still wants to try and expand the league’s footprint in the United States by going into Seattle... at least people there will watch hockey. But why would anyone look at expansion when you have obvious markets that can't draw flies?
The NHL needs expansion like it needs a hole in the head. Rather than adding even more teams it can start by relocating one of the teams currently on life support.

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09-21-2012, 11:40 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
The league, meanwhile, has stronger interest in going to Seattle than any other market but has been waiting on the building to come together before considering it a realistic.

Despite a few setbacks in some troubled markets, however, the league’s brass want to continue to try and expand the league’s footprint in the United States.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4557898/

It's all fine and dandy that the NHL still wants to try and expand the league’s footprint in the United States by going into Seattle... at least people there will watch hockey. But why would anyone look at expansion when you have obvious markets that can't draw flies?
$


An expansion fee of $200m is a lot more attractive then a $50m-$60m relocation fee.



http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...2710--nhl.html
This would allow the NHL to collect expansion fees of $200-million or more each from Seattle and Quebec City, the top candidates for NHL teams, rather than a single relocation fee of $60-million or so for the Coyotes. That is a gain of at least $200-million if a total loss of $200-million is assumed on the NHL's investment in the Coyotes.

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09-21-2012, 02:36 PM
  #282
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Rather than adding even more teams it can start by relocating one of the teams currently on life support.
Because they all have leases locking them into their cities through 2023 at the earliest?


The whole "four-conference realignment works nicer with 32 teams" angle is baffling a bit though. You'd need two teams in the PT-MT-CT zones to make everyone happy.


Last edited by KevFu: 09-21-2012 at 03:08 PM.
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09-21-2012, 10:38 PM
  #283
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seems like seattle idea would be more of an expansion route than a relocation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
The league, meanwhile, has stronger interest in going to Seattle than any other market but has been waiting on the building to come together before considering it a realistic.

Despite a few setbacks in some troubled markets, however, the league’s brass want to continue to try and expand the league’s footprint in the United States.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4557898/

It's all fine and dandy that the NHL still wants to try and expand the league’s footprint in the United States by going into Seattle... at least people there will watch hockey. But why would anyone look at expansion when you have obvious markets that can't draw flies?
Perhaps its just me but, I think there's just too many other distractions/situations going on in Seattle to warrant the category of an expansion site vs. a relocation site. To me it comes down to the other "Four C's" of business - Cost, Competition, Commitment, and Convenience

From a Cost perspective, you have all parties ponying up the dough to build the arena ($490 million - barring any budget overuns) and the yet-to-be-determined costs associated with buying a NBA franchise ($$$?). I don't follow the NBA, therefore hardly qualified to speculate on what the costs would be to buy-in (NBA expansion) or relocate one... however those are more added costs Hansen and his group will have. Does $500 million between his portion of construction costs and commitments plus purchasing a NBA team sound about right?

Add in the "premium" of an NHL expansion fee to boot. Understanding another yet-to-be determined owner will be on the hook for that portion (NHL franchise).

The point I'm trying to make is that trying to pry coveted expansion fees from each of the Seattle ownership groups by both Leagues going into an existing two-team market (where the competitive sports dollar pecking order is already #1-NFL / #2-MLB) and thus making it a 4 team city... I'm just skeptical. I would say that if an expansion fee is inevitable, and given Hansens seemingly Hell bent approach to bringing the NBA back to Seattle, I have to give the nod to the NBA side. That said though, and given Hansens amount of money committed, I'd have to think he's hoping to land an established NBA team as cost effectively as possible.

If I'm a future NHL owner with machinations of setting up shop in Seattle, and given the reasons I outlined above, I'm also skeptical of plunking down a $200+ million expansion fee. Which segues into:

Competition - As said above, both Hansen and ______ NHL owner will be into the competitive sports dollar realm with clearly the top two Leagues to contend with, the NFL and MLB. Given schedules what they are, they carry the brunt of contending with the NFL season for 3-3 1/2 months (depending on how far the Seahawks go in the playoffs) and roughly 3 months of the Mariners play. Granted both franchises will be housed under the same roof, but both franchises will need ready-made teams to immediately contend with the Seahawks and Mariners. I just can't see that with from-scratch rosters via expansion. I believe you get that immediate contention with the Kings (NBA) or another team that's relo'd and Phoenix.

From vying for the competitve sports dollar, to TV ratings, the impact of potential playoff contention right out of the gate by both new teams, and so on. Plus fan buy-in vs. hoping the fans have patience and weather the growing pains like you would see in say QC, Markham, and or Hamilton. Which drifts into the other C - Commitment . How solid would the commitment be from the fanbases of the new franchises from the onset with expansion rosters vs. ready-made one's? I have faith in the Seattle market that they would. I've always believed for some time now that Seattle's been overdue for a NHL franchise. Just if I'm on the business end of this thing, I'm going into this with the most certainty I can get as opposed to faith (head vs. heart).

Lastly, Convenience. By that I mean soft landing convenience. I need guidance in what NBA teams are in such distress that relo seems the likely/viable option but in regards to a franchise such as Phoenix, well there's many threads here regarding that. If the JIG deal falls on it's face, isn't the League in a better position to relocate to Seattle (and thus a soft landing for the franchise) with regards to keeping the team within the lower 48 (and remaining in the broadcast pipe of NBC/NBCSN) and in a market with more viewership potential than the market they just left? Let alone Division/Conference adjustments vs. QC?

Now before I invite myself to get cranked over the head by other QC/2 additional teams in Toronto advocates here, I'll say it again for the record... I want a team in QC and crazy as it sounds firmly believe that Toronto most certainly can support additional teams in Markham and Hamilton. I just don't think that time is on your side at this point and the NHL's hand wringing of extracting expansion fees out of one Markham/Hamilton and QC. Up until the emergence of Seattle's arena opportunity I would have said that QC was the frontrunner for a relo candidate like the Coyotes. Le Colisee could most certainly served as a temporary home. Now that the NHL potentially has a US market candidate for that, unfortunately I don't now. We all know it's coming, QC and at least another team in TO.


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09-21-2012, 10:41 PM
  #284
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In regards to cbcwpg's post (and Mirtle's article therein), I got the same vibe as others did in relation to Levin's comments. Towing the line as it were. Where I get a different interpretation is on the word "expand" as in expanding the footprint in a market with higher fan base draw, higher viewership, etc and not just outright "expansion".

Levin's quote is also another open door for interpretation, imo:

Quote:
“I can tell you there are not teams for sale that are available to move,” Levin said, before remarking on expansion, “I would think three years.”
Well, in the now, he's right. No team is currently "available" to move. With the Yotes and the NHL in a whirlwind 11 1/2 hour-down-to-the-final-horn dance with Glendale and JIG, the intent is to keep the team there. Therefore not "available to move". At this time... That doesn't, however, mean the Phoenix franchise is not portable. So I definately agree that Levin's just "saying the right things".

Touching upon CREW99's post with PD's article, a couple of things. One, take into account that was written in July and in advance of Seattle's hurdle clearing ascension. Two, folding the franchise... sure a prospective owner could purchase a dormant franchise right? But for the reasons I stated above, it would be awfully risky going into Seattle with a franchise awaiting an expansion draft to fill it's roster vs. QC, Markham, and or Hamilton, IMO.


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 09-21-2012 at 10:49 PM.
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09-23-2012, 01:22 AM
  #285
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Season started for the thunderbirds tonight against portland. Looked like a full house.

Anyways, Council vote is coming up in two days. Two days and we can go shopping for teams.

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09-23-2012, 03:12 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
$


An expansion fee of $200m is a lot more attractive then a $50m-$60m relocation fee.



http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...2710--nhl.html
This would allow the NHL to collect expansion fees of $200-million or more each from Seattle and Quebec City, the top candidates for NHL teams, rather than a single relocation fee of $60-million or so for the Coyotes. That is a gain of at least $200-million if a total loss of $200-million is assumed on the NHL's investment in the Coyotes.
Question... let me get this straight...
  • rather than sell PKP or Levin the Coyotes for $200 million, and stay on reasonable terms with the NHLPA
  • the NHL will
    fold the Coyotes, enraging the NHLPA
    fire Coyotes coach/GM/trainers/scouts/
    hang their AHL+ECHL affiliates out to dry
    hold a dispersal draft
    turn around and hold an expansion draft
Rather than get the Coyotes for $200 million, a playoff team with functional management/scouting/farm-system, someone is going to pay $200 million for a bill of goods and signing rights to everybody else's 4th-line rejects and a couple of 2nd-string goalies? The NHL would be beyond dumb to do that Note that the NHL gets $200 million either way.

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09-23-2012, 04:50 AM
  #287
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it was already upgraded once, AF24, which is why the Sonics played in TACOMA... SEATTLE Times reports tht Key is outdated, and will be vacated.... it makes no sense to retrofit, once the new arena opens.
Key Arena is going to be retrofitted, Chris Hansen had already stated the upgrades the Key will get to host NHL/NBA teams until the new arena is ready.

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09-23-2012, 04:51 AM
  #288
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ABSOLUTELY NOT, then what's the plan when Key is upgraded, then ignored once the new arena is up and running, doesn't make sense for hockey..... remember Key is a historic registered site, that's why it took a year the last time
You really have no idea what is going on up here do you?

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09-23-2012, 02:06 PM
  #289
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You really have no idea what is going on up here do you?
why would your city want to join a league that's locked out? Also, Key goes away once Hansen opens doesn't it? Or is the Seattle Times lying through their teeth to its own constituents..... I'm FRANKLY TIRED of the NHL talk in Seattle, go w/ something you know and repair the PR nightmare that ensued w/ the loss of the Sonics to begin with

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09-23-2012, 02:21 PM
  #290
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Two days and we can go shopping for teams.
.... love the attitude. "Do the Puyallup"

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
why would your city want to join a league that's locked out? Also, Key goes away once Hansen opens doesn't it? Or is the Seattle Times lying through their teeth to its own constituents..... I'm FRANKLY TIRED of the NHL talk in Seattle, go w/ something you know and repair the PR nightmare that ensued w/ the loss of the Sonics to begin with
... c'mon HUTCH, theres no need for anyone to "repair the PR nightmare" of the Sonics' relo, that my friend is a case of good riddance to intransigence & extortion. See ya. Later. Lemme help ya pack your bags'.... as for Key once the new buildings up & running, no idea what they plan for it, maybe like Maple Leaf Gardens or the old Montreal Forum they turn it into a giant shopping & entertainment complex, condo's, whatever as its designated historical.... finally, its not just Levin keen to see a team in Seattle, a franchise in the PNW, its a number of interested parties. From NBC to the NHL itself, the westcoast franchises, several wealthy individuals in & around Seattle itself.

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09-23-2012, 05:35 PM
  #291
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as for Key once the new buildings up & running, no idea what they plan for it, maybe like Maple Leaf Gardens or the old Montreal Forum they turn it into a giant shopping & entertainment complex, condo's, whatever as its designated historical.... finally, its not just Levin keen to see a team in Seattle, a franchise in the PNW, its a number of interested parties. From NBC to the NHL itself, the westcoast franchises, several wealthy individuals in & around Seattle itself.
As the papers in Seattle made it sound, Hansen would be paying for a renovation of Key Arena to keep in an operational venue and not some run down mess the City would have to pay to tear down (see: Houston Astrodome).

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09-24-2012, 02:26 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
why would your city want to join a league that's locked out? Also, Key goes away once Hansen opens doesn't it? Or is the Seattle Times lying through their teeth to its own constituents..... I'm FRANKLY TIRED of the NHL talk in Seattle, go w/ something you know and repair the PR nightmare that ensued w/ the loss of the Sonics to begin with
Yes the Seattle times is lying, the key arena is not going to go away, it might be repurposed after sodo arena is completed . It wants to join the NHL because it's not going to be locked out forever

Thanks for dictating That fans in Seattle should just stick with the nba. Seattle more than anyone should be able to claim a chance at a NHL team. Why the negative energy about Seattle and the NHL

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09-24-2012, 02:29 AM
  #293
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And really stop reading the Seattle times speaking about the arena. They are so blatantly opposed to Hansen and the arena, that the misinformation coming from then is laughable

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09-24-2012, 03:00 AM
  #294
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I love visiting the Seattle area. Get it done.

Hansen is a homie.

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09-24-2012, 04:12 AM
  #295
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why would your city want to join a league that's locked out? Also, Key goes away once Hansen opens doesn't it?
No. Hansen is dumping money into it. It probably will remain the home to the WNBA Storm, Seattle U. men's basketball, and the various concerts for the festivals that take place at Seattle Center.

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09-24-2012, 10:28 AM
  #296
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No. Hansen is dumping money into it. It probably will remain the home to the WNBA Storm, Seattle U. men's basketball, and the various concerts for the festivals that take place at Seattle Center.
Makes sense. The KeyArena is the perfect size for certain events best suited for "intimate" downtown venues.

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09-24-2012, 11:01 AM
  #297
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Today is the day that we can move forward and start to look for teams.


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09-24-2012, 12:29 PM
  #298
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http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/city...l-arena/nSKWw/

The Seattle City Council will vote on Monday on the future of a new hockey and basketball arena in SoDo

If the City Council approves the plan for the $490 million arena, as is widely expected, Hansen can begin searching for an NBA team.

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09-24-2012, 12:45 PM
  #299
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http://www.seattle.gov/council/councillive.htm

Discussion on the arena happening now.

Vote happening later on today (2pm PST)

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09-24-2012, 01:09 PM
  #300
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http://www.seattle.gov/council/councillive.htm

Discussion on the arena happening now.

Vote happening later on today (2pm PST)
done with arena stuff now, pretty mundane stuff. Moving on to other topics.

next thing to keep an eye on is the vote at 2pm PST.

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