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Impact of new taxes increases on Habs

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Old
09-24-2012, 08:11 PM
  #26
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
First of, let me be clear, this is by no mean meant to be a political debate. For those who don't know, new taxes increase are to be announced to those who make more than 130,000$ a year going from 48% to 55% rate.

I would like to discuss on a pure hockey operation, what do you think the impact would be on the habs for keeping their own players and attracting UFAs? It's getting a bit unfair honestly. We will have to overpay by a lot to sign UFAs.

Just to give an idea, someone who makes $400,000 a year means that he will have to pay $15,000 more taxes a year. Scale that for someone who makes 4M$. That's a significant amount!
150 - 200 K on 4M ?

We'll never ever sign another free agent ever. It's the end of the world.

Why is this political party persecuting us poor habs fans ? I'd gladly pay the 200$ more per year on my sub 130K salary if it meant I could change the mind of just one hockey player about playing in Québec.

Maybe you should stop worrying about trivial things that likely won't change much at all and go buy an authenticate jersey with the 200$ more you have in your pockets. Unless you make more than 130K ? In which case, I don't feel sorry for you.

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09-24-2012, 08:33 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Jesus Christ, Quebec really hates success.

This isn't like the states where the rich pay unfathomably low taxes, the proposed 55% rate is a ludicrously high amount and 130k is definitely not all that much if you have a spouse and two dependents. Why would a small-to-medium sized business owner WANT to stay here with its language laws (that are getting even stricter) and a tax code that wants more than half of his low-six-figure salary + the ultra-high PST + the rampant corruption and province-wide wastefulness? Can someone justify making Quebec seem even less attractive as an investment opportunity?

When are they announcing the revised tax code? Might be time to divest from this province.

edit: totally misread the post and was totally misinformed, I'll leave my post up in it's full ignorant glory as the town dunce. My sincerest apologies.
move to the states bud!

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Old
09-24-2012, 08:46 PM
  #28
Andy
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
150 - 200 K on 4M ?

We'll never ever sign another free agent ever. It's the end of the world.

Why is this political party persecuting us poor habs fans ? I'd gladly pay the 200$ more per year on my sub 130K salary if it meant I could change the mind of just one hockey player about playing in Québec.

Maybe you should stop worrying about trivial things that likely won't change much at all and go buy an authenticate jersey with the 200$ more you have in your pockets. Unless you make more than 130K ? In which case, I don't feel sorry for you.
That's 150-200k in addition to the already absurd amount being taken off your salary already. Just think about it, after takes, you will only net 1.8 million of your 4 million dollar salary. Less than half.

For me it's just the principle that the government is getting more from your salary than you are. Kind of sad that you don't even get the majority share of your own money. And this has nothing to do with hockey players, but all occupations. But I guess you can say that it doesn't matter because you are making 130k anyway. Still doesn't change the fact that the government takes the majority share of what I earn. What if my wife has a stroke and can't work and we have 4 kids...I am supposed to support 4 kids and a dependant only clearing 58k?

And yes, I as a player wouldn't come here from that extra 200k I would lose, in addition to the already enormous amount I lose playing in Quebec. Hell, it goes beyond hockey, even if I was a doctor I wouldn't want to work here. Add to the that all the tax on gas, the tax on goods and now the upcoming increase in tax on capital gains. It's pretty ridiculous. Quebec gives no incentive for people with Money to stay here or invest, which just hurts everyone in the long.

As a player I would totally see this increase as a disincentive. Taking home less than half isn't attractive at all.


Last edited by Andy: 09-24-2012 at 08:53 PM.
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09-24-2012, 09:04 PM
  #29
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High taxation is a fact of life (sigh) in this country, I will leave it at that .

What I don't undestand is after 8 years of the current CBA I haven't heard one utterance from the Montreal Canadiens (or any other Canadian team) top brass about proposing a league solution to level the playing field. Solutions have been discussed on this board and aren't that complicated, yet the Canadian hockey fan is repeatedly taken for granted by this league.

I hate tax-and-spend government but there are solutions that the Habs should be pursuing.

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09-24-2012, 09:17 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by pelletier666 View Post
move to the states bud!
He probably won't but many doctors, businessmen and others will do so.
And among those who stay, a lot will work less to stay under 130k or 250k cap. I know a lot of people around me that will do less hours. Those who think the gouvernement will see a 800M increase in revenue are stupid.

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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
High taxation is a fact of life (sigh) in this country, I will leave it at that .

What I don't undestand is after 8 years of the current CBA I haven't heard one utterance from the Montreal Canadiens (or any other Canadian team) top brass about proposing a league solution to level the playing field. Solutions have been discussed on this board and aren't that complicated, yet the Canadian hockey fan is repeatedly taken for granted by this league.

I hate tax-and-spend government but there are solutions that the Habs should be pursuing.
Maybe they don't want to give 5-10M more in salary

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09-24-2012, 09:18 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
That's 150-200k in addition to the already absurd amount being taken off your salary already. Just think about it, after takes, you will only net 1.8 million of your 4 million dollar salary. Less than half.
I say better that it's off some hockey player, judge, high profile lawyer, doctor than a poor schmuck who makes 30K a year.

You guys do know that this tax to the wealthy was made to cover the 200$ per person (400$ per couple) health tax that applied to EVERYONE regardless of income ?

You are not going to make me cry over some millionaire making less money in a given year. Especially if that amount is more than most make in a lifetime.

Quote:
For me it's just the principle that the government is getting more from your salary than you are.
Do you actually think that the end result is that hockey players pay more than half of their salary in taxes ?

Are you naive, ignorant or just trying to shock people with extravagant imaginary numbers to win an argument ?

Quote:
And yes, I as a player wouldn't come here from that extra 200k I would lose, in addition to the already enormous amount I lose playing in Quebec. Hell, it goes beyond hockey, even if I was a doctor I wouldn't want to work here. Add to the that all the tax on gas, the tax on goods and now the upcoming increase in tax on capital gains. It's pretty ridiculous. Quebec gives no incentive for people with Money to stay here or invest, which just hurts everyone in the long.
Are you kidding me ? If you make 130K you pay the same as before 200$ ? You're going to leave the province because of this new measure for an increase of 0$ ? Don't make me laugh.

What about the 30K salary people who have to pay 200$ less because of that new measure ? Do you ever think about them ? People who actually freakin' need it ? Not people in one in a million hypothetical situations where they have 4 kids and a wife who had a stroke. Actual real people who struggle to meet ends.

If a player doesn't want to come here because of that extra 200K he loses, then I am glad he never gets to wear a habs jersey because he didn't really want to play here anyway. That measure could actually make the habs better by weeding out the mercs who only seek the highest bidder.

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Old
09-24-2012, 09:22 PM
  #32
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
He probably won't but many doctors, businessmen and others will do so.
And among those who stay, a lot will work less to stay under 130k or 250k cap. I know a lot of people around me that will do less hours. Those who think the gouvernement will see a 800M increase in revenue are stupid.
You're so full of it.

At 130K you pay the same as before 200$. So no, no one will try to avoid hitting 130K just to pay 200$ less.

Fear mongering at its finest. Where do you people find that stuff.

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Old
09-24-2012, 09:33 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Simply put, like it or not, wealthy people are actually good for an economy. Disenchanting them and giving them reason not to work or do business in Quebec only works against the province and its people. There's a reason why Toronto has flourished once the exodus of business' drove down the highway since the late 70's while Montreal is shrivelling as a city. It's actually really sad. Sadder still is that politicians believe higher taxes are a solution rather than the problem. I'm glad I don't live there anymore and make way more money and pay less taxes then I would had I stayed. I also spend a lot more money, just not in Quebec.
I just wanted to refute this ******** part of your post. Not only did Montreal get back the 42 businesses that moved to Ontario (yes, it was only 42), but they gained more since then. And guess what? There are businesses that left Ontario for Quebec too.

Next time, please get all your facts right and stop reading garbage newspapers like the Gazette of the National Post.

Now as for the tax issues, yes, it's bad. My parents have said they were going to be leaving this province should that tax rate go up (actually, those of you who are saying that it's 55%, it's technically far more than that. It's closer to 75%. You have to take into account a few things: property tax, school tax, municipal tax and...luxury tax. That's a **** load of taxes).

Raising taxes on the rich is not the solution. The solution is to cut down on unnecessary services (like centers for the Heroin addicted folks) and to nationalize our resources so that WE, as Quebecers, benefit from them.

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Old
09-24-2012, 09:45 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
That's 150-200k in addition to the already absurd amount being taken off your salary already. Just think about it, after takes, you will only net 1.8 million of your 4 million dollar salary. Less than half.

For me it's just the principle that the government is getting more from your salary than you are. Kind of sad that you don't even get the majority share of your own money. And this has nothing to do with hockey players, but all occupations. But I guess you can say that it doesn't matter because you are making 130k anyway. Still doesn't change the fact that the government takes the majority share of what I earn. What if my wife has a stroke and can't work and we have 4 kids...I am supposed to support 4 kids and a dependant only clearing 58k?

And yes, I as a player wouldn't come here from that extra 200k I would lose, in addition to the already enormous amount I lose playing in Quebec. Hell, it goes beyond hockey, even if I was a doctor I wouldn't want to work here. Add to the that all the tax on gas, the tax on goods and now the upcoming increase in tax on capital gains. It's pretty ridiculous. Quebec gives no incentive for people with Money to stay here or invest, which just hurts everyone in the long.

As a player I would totally see this increase as a disincentive. Taking home less than half isn't attractive at all.
But at the end of the day, you still make your millions of dollars at your dream job.
And unless you want to go play in a city where hockey is one of the least supported professional sport, where you don't have to pay high taxes, you won't escape dishing out a big chunk of change to the government. Taxes are high in NYR as well, you never hear about how taxes are too high there.

Take a bigger tax hit in order to play in the most storied franchise in the NHL? Ya, why not?

Also, if you have a good accountant, you won't actually be dishing out 55% when all is said and done.

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09-24-2012, 09:49 PM
  #35
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I'll be in the salary range affected by the new taxe increase. Let me put it this way, I'm freaking glad I'll pay more so that I live in a place that support those who don't have that chance.

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09-24-2012, 09:57 PM
  #36
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I say better that it's off some hockey player, judge, high profile lawyer, doctor than a poor schmuck who makes 30K a year.
Sure, I agree with taxing at the benefit of everyone. 55% is a little much and personally, if I was making that much money, I'd be a little ticked off that I would in principle only earn 45% of my salary.

Quote:
You guys do know that this tax to the wealthy was made to cover the 200$ per person (400$ per couple) health tax that applied to EVERYONE regardless of income ?

You are not going to make me cry over some millionaire making less money in a given year. Especially if that amount is more than most make in a lifetime.
I'm not trying to make you cry. Just telling you that if I was a player that tax bracket would certainly tick me off and I wouldn't sign here. It's just silly when I can make more money elsewhere.

Quote:
Do you actually think that the end result is that hockey players pay more than half of their salary in taxes ?
Regardless of the end result, it's still in principle 55%. That's a huge percentage in principle.

Quote:
Are you naive, ignorant or just trying to shock people with extravagant imaginary numbers to win an argument ?
I'm not trying to win any argument. I'm saying that as a player or anyone making money for that matter, when I see 55% on income, highest tax on goods, increasing tax on capital gains, all the tax on gas, I wouldn't want to sign here when there are other options. I would understand a player not signing here, I would do the same, it has nothing about winning an argument. Not sure why you are gettimg defensive. What imaginary number is 55%? Whether or not that is what happens in the end, that is what taxes are being raised to.


Quote:
Are you kidding me ? If you make 130K you pay the same as before 200$ ? You're going to leave the province because of this new measure for an increase of 0$ ? Don't make me laugh.

What about the 30K salary people who have to pay 200$ less because of that new measure ? Do you ever think about them ? People who actually freakin' need it ? Not people in one in a million hypothetical situations where they have 4 kids and a wife who had a stroke. Actual real people who struggle to meet ends.
I'm not talking about the guy who makes 30k. I'm looking at things from a perspective of people who make 130k and more and would totally understand them not wanting to work in Quebec.

Quote:
If a player doesn't want to come here because of that extra 200K he loses, then I am glad he never gets to wear a habs jersey because he didn't really want to play here anyway. That measure could actually make the habs better by weeding out the mercs who only seek the highest bidder.
Or it can never allow the habs to add that missing piece that puts playoff teams into contender positions, regardless of how high someone bid on them. Richards was a high contract, but it change the dynamics of the Rangers team last season for example. Takes many different types of pieces to make a team. Would suck if that missing piece decided not to come here because of taxes.

Looking from that perspective, I can understand why players, doctors etc wouldn't want to work in Quebec.

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09-24-2012, 10:29 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Looking from that perspective, I can understand why players, doctors etc wouldn't want to work in Quebec.
They can go elsewhere for all I care. I'm a soon to be doctor. I do this work because I want to help people, not make money. If by paying more taxes, I get to help more people well that's exactly what I want in the first place.

As doctors, we shouldn't think about our paycheck but really the health of our patients and the overall health of our population.

BTW, I'm not talking about puting more money into health care. I'm talking about putting more money to fight against poverty (like lower education costs). Education also leads to healthier habits, therefore less diseases and lower health care cost.

Anyway, we're not even in "it's my opinion" territory there, we're talking about hard facts. Everyone should have a health sociology course to understand how things like education, poverty and health are linked together.

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09-25-2012, 09:19 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by franchise player View Post
They can go elsewhere for all I care. I'm a soon to be doctor. I do this work because I want to help people, not make money. If by paying more taxes, I get to help more people well that's exactly what I want in the first place.

As doctors, we shouldn't think about our paycheck but really the health of our patients and the overall health of our population.

BTW, I'm not talking about puting more money into health care. I'm talking about putting more money to fight against poverty (like lower education costs). Education also leads to healthier habits, therefore less diseases and lower health care cost.

Anyway, we're not even in "it's my opinion" territory there, we're talking about hard facts. Everyone should have a health sociology course to understand how things like education, poverty and health are linked together.
Agreed. That's why people say Cuba has great doctors.

Education is a major problem in Qc. There's so much that needs to be done.
Always enjoyed this video, it's been posted before I believe.

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09-25-2012, 12:00 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
You guys do know that this tax to the wealthy was made to cover the 200$ per person (400$ per couple) health tax that applied to EVERYONE regardless of income ?
''Retour d'impot pour la solidarity''

The 200$ health tax is actually progressive - you get the money back if you're low revenue. Of course the PQ is going to keep the money back thing but take away the tax. If they could print money and hand it out they would as well. They collectively have about as much economy acumen as the average hobo.

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